ChinRey

Aquila Kytori wrote: I hadn't thought of only using 3 triangles to represent each stack and felt sure using the version where the tris are joined at the pointy end would make a noticeable difference compared to the Lowest Lod that I had been using. Your lowest LoD model is so simple to start with, there is not much to gain anyway but it's a very good example to illustrate some of the tricks of advanced LoD optimisation. The one that should give the lowest download weight is the one where you simply triangulate the quads and remove the lower tri from each pair. I included the other examples since there was a chance they might be more visually satisfying without causing a significant LI increase. Aquila Kytori wrote: Using the "2 triangle" example (like the "2 plane" version in the image above, LOD0b) would really mean using 4 because of the need to duplicate and flip the normals so that the texture could be seen from all angles. Yes, that too was included because of its possible visual advantages. You should be able to get the download weight below 1.5 if you close the gaps between the sheets and make sure they are aligned precisely along the x and y axises. Edit: Maybe I should illustrate what I mean with aligning precisely:  A challenge to everybody: what is the difference between these two models that causes one of them to have 50% higher download weight than the other?

Aquila Kytori wrote: Showing what is possible when using hand made lower Lod models is good but if you really want to encourage people new to mesh to do the same then it would be even better to include the wire frames. Good point. These examples shouldn't really need them though. I suppose I shouldn't really reveal all my LoD secrets since one of my selling points is that I can make models with lower LI than anybody else. But here are a few tricks that may or may not improve the lowest LoD model of Aquila's tyre stack: No. 4 is the one that will give the lowest download weight but the difference betwen the last three is so minute it may not even show in the three decimal figure the uploader gives.  The first model is the old crossed sheet trick, very useful for smaller plants (and also larger background plants) and sometimes used for other objects too. For some reason it's rarely seen as a lower LoD impostor solution though. It increases the triangle count a little bit but it may or may not give a better visual representation of the model - have to actually test it to know. The other are different variants on the crossed sheet and on Aquila's LoD model taking advantage of the fact that the lower part of the model is less noticeable than the upper part to cut the triangle count in half.

IvanBenjammin wrote: Is it just me, or does understanding SL tech feel like archaeology, piecing together explanations out of clues? It's not just you, that's exactly what it is.

As Alwin said, only the owner of the IP rights can take any kind of action against copyright infringements but yes, LL could add an system for notifying the IP owner if there is reason to believe there is an issue. They're not going to though. It would take a bit of work and they have no interest themselves in catching the violators, quite the contrary. So they only do the minimum the law forces them to.

This is how I convert Blender models to sculpts: Start with a 32x32 vertice grid (and remember never ever to add or remove vertices or polys from the model!) Shape it up Export as dae (or was it obj? can't remember exactly) Import into Wings3D Export as sculpt map Open in paint.net and turn the mess into a proper sculpt map Import to SL Perhaps not the easiest way but it works and it's not as if I have to do it every month and unlike anything that involve fiddling with anything inside Blender, the process is fairly easy to remember so I don't have to relearn it every time I need a Blender created sculpt.

It doesn't right away. The weekly stipend are paid on Tuesdays so you'll have to wait a few more days. The one-time 1000 L$ bonus is paid after you've been a premium member for 45 days.

Log on to https://secondlife.com Click on the nice picture of a Linden Home to the right Click on the "Go to your home" button and let your web browser launch the Second Life Viewer of your choice. That's it.

Chic Aeon wrote: You, Drongle, have talked about that nasty triangle that you see when people cheat on their LODs. I don't really think it's right to hold that specific part of the LoD issue against builders. It's one of the Seven Big Blunders LL's programmers made when they wrote the code for sculpts and for mesh. Us content creators just have to try our best to minimize the problems they create. (Which reminds me: Patch, if you happen to read this and are serious about improving the content quality in SL: get into a time machine, go back to ... 2006, was it? ... and fix those Blunders. If you do that, there may not even be a need for Sansar since SL should be able to render at 90 fps.)

Chic Aeon wrote: One thing, I think, that is difficult for folks starting with 3D modeling to "get" is that there are MANY purposes and uses for models. On our platform things need to be pretty light in that triangle count area -- not Blockworld, but certainly not like many 3D items that are made for the purpose of RENDERS, not game engines. Yes. One aspect that is usually forgotten in Second Life because the world is so thoroughly based on technology rather than art, is that what we see is not what is actually there. We see the big picture, we may notice some details in the object we're specifically focusing on, we notice very well items that stand out like sore thumbs (such as poor LoD models) and we do notice abrupt movements and changes (like switches between unmatched LoD models) but most of the image we have of our surroundings is interpolated by the brain, not seen by the eyes. The three main factors that keep Second Life and other virtual ralities of the same kind from becoming more "real" to the users are the interface, lag and - for SL and SL based virtual realities - the camera position bug. The amount of visual details isn't anywhere near as significant as those three and it's a little bit worrying for Sansar that LL doesn't seem to have quite grasped that fact yet. That being said, visual details do matter of course and in this particular case I might go for the bevelling. It wouldn't cause any significant lag increase sicne a model like that would hardly ever be rendered in f high LoD anyway so why not? The only worry is what happens at the high-medium switch point. If ti causes more problems there - like sudden changes in the shading across the surface, then no.

Sorry if this appears twice. I tried to post a reply but it didn't appear on the forum so I'm trying again: I'm working on a set of mesh trees at the moment and one of the trunks just happens to have the same 1.2 LI as Chic's table. And since texture optimisation was mentioned earlier in this thread: it also uses a single 256x256 pixel texture. The two builds are too different for direct comparasion of course but it still should give an illustration what can be achieved with optimised LoD models. 

Chic Aeon wrote: As I have stated SO MANY times , the DEFAULTS of the auto uploader are seldom the best. There's more to it than that. As Arton and others already have said, with a little bit of patience even the most inexperienced human can make better LoD models than the best computer algorithm but GLOD, the imp that lives inside the uploader and tries to help us with the LoD models also has one unique and fatal flaw. Proper simplification algorithms work on vertice level, removing corners, merging triangles to maintain as much of the shape as possible with a simpler geometry. GLOD (the name means Geometric Level of Detail btw) doesn't care about these tiny little vertices, it removes triangles, leaving huge gaps in the model. It's a very different, much cruder and usually far less effective aproach than any other 3D software I know about. You can get good LoD with it of course, just set the thresholds high enough it keeps all the essential triangles. But then you also get lots and lots of superfluous geometry in the LoD models, adding both to the LI and the lag. I'm not too surprised it did a fair job with your table those. All those small triangles that don't contribute to the overall outline are exactly the ones GLOD would eat first and in this case they also happened to be the ones you could best afford to loose. And of course, the lattice structure helps a lot disguising the holes GLOD leaves. 1.2 download weight is still a bit high for a model like that - it should be 0.6 or 0.7 - but it's low enough to be rounded down to 1 so it doesn't affect the nominal land impact.

Devriv wrote: Not being very techy however I’m wondering what “highly optimized” in general means in terms of LODs. We know for instance that where are concerned, the smaller and fewer the textures, the more optimized the texturing. But in terms of triangles and actual geometry, isn’t the very problem under discussion here in a sense one of “over optimization”? If here too less meant better and more optimized, then objects with zeroed lower LODs would be considered the most optimized! There's no definite answer to what is highly optimized neither when it comes to mesh nor textures. In both cases, the more details you add, the more lag you get. The trick is to include exactly the details that are necessary in the textures, in each LoD model and in the physics model. There are lots of good rules and guidelines for that but in the end it's art, not science.

Medhue Simoni wrote: That's SL tho. It's a place of learning and advancing, with hobbyists and professionals. I think that's a crucial point here. Even before the prim increase, a skilled 3D modeller could easily make mesh with LoD good enough to work with LoD factor 1 and land impact low enough you ran out of space long before you ran out of prims. But most SL content creators are not skilled 3D modellers, they're hobbyists. And that's how it shold be because a streamlined, optimized Second Life designed by porfessionals ... well, it wouldn't be Second Life.

UVB wrote: I agree the spreading of misinformation is not journalism it is gossip--- In this particular case it was neither, it was an accident. Inara was working on a draft for her next blog post and since she didn't know the details, she made up some "filler" data. Then she hit the "Publish" button by accident and by the time she realized the mistake, people had already started quoting her. Could happen to anybody and at least it kept the discussion interesting.

Hokizibin wrote: I would just like to say that in my short SL life I have learned that the people are very rude. I'm afraid that's a general problem with internet forums of all kinds, nothing special about Second Life there. Hokizibin wrote: Why is everything so out of scale? Much of that is because of the awkward camrea position. The default birdseye viewpoint were established in the very early days for reasons that made perfectly sense back then and it has never been corrected. One of the negative side effects of that is that buidings have to be made in a very large scale so there's room for the camera inside.

Pamela Galli wrote: From what Patch said to Inara, I get the impression that some new configuration of software and hardware enables more land impact compared to the lag. New hardware? You mean they are going to give us all new computers? This is client side lag after all, the servers shouldn't have any problems handling a bit of extra download weight. Pamela Galli wrote: I assume they would not just arbitrarily add prim capacity without making sure they could handle it. Yes, LL has always been very careful to consider all possible consequences of the changes they make. But seriously, I'm not that worried. Generally the geometry of rezzed objects contributes very little to the overall lag level, it's textures and avatars that really bring the craphics cards down. But I think that as considerate content creators we have to keep that in mind. No matter how we look at it, copmuting power will always be in short supply in a big, detailed virtual world and it'll always be the builders who can make the most out of the least who are the best.

Callum Meriman wrote: Whois can be used to get the holder of the website This is just shot in the dark of course, but if the forum happens to have a .co domain name, you have to search at go.co to find the registrar info since whois.com believes that domain name is free (I wonder what happens if somebody tries to register it through whois.com). And if, mind you I say if, the site happens to be hosted by a big U.S. hosting company like ... GoDaddy just to name a random example ... I'm sure they're eager to assist you in any way they can. They can't afford to be associated with illegal activities like that.

Devriv wrote: I am hoping that the extra prims will be used, and welcomed by all, to allow the residents to acquire better mesh builds, and the builders to not make low LI a requirement that would compromise the integrity of the builds. Yes, I hope so too but that's a double edged sword. There is a reason we have LoD after all, it's to keep the lag down. If the LoD butchers keep building (or uploading things they've found) the way they do and just crank up the LoD settings in the uploader, we're heading for lag Hell. I really, really hope that won't be the result.

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: $600US is not chump change by any means. Those that didn't pony up that amount are still paying the higher tier and it was a limited offer, so anyone buying a new sim from LL will pay the higher tier. Keep in mind that you don't get mainland sims for free either. Prices vary a lot of course but even today with a price general level less than half of what it was two or three years ago, you may still have to pay just as much to buy a mainland sim as you have to pay in startup fee for a private one. Amethyst Jetaime wrote: With estate rights comes the responsibility of governing your estate too, not something that mainland owners have to do. Oh yes, you have to do that because nobody else will. And somehow you have to find a way to do it without sufficient tools for the job.

Prokofy Neva wrote: Actually, this seeing of wildly different numbers was due to my own ignorance in not thinking this through. Not sure if this will clarify things and it may be pointless since the official answer is only hours away anyway but I've kept a look at the numbers in the sims where I have land: Keswick (Second Life server): 50% increase yesterday and another 50% today Windermere (Second Life server): no increase yesterday, 100% today Langdale (Second Life server): 50% yesteday, no change today Coniston (Blue Steel): 50% today Buttermere (Magnum): 50% today Duzzclown (Le Tigre): 50% today I'm also managing some land for a friend at two other sims: Caldbeck (Le Tigre): 50% today Torver (Magnum): 50% yesterday, 50% today So it seems all sims are getting a 100% increase in two steps, the first step happened when they had their rollign restart, the next at some time later. The only anomaly is that Torver had its first boost on Tuesday even though it wasn't supposed to restart until Wednesday but it's possible it rolled early for some special reason, I didn't exactly keep a constant watch on that sim so I can't say.

Pamela Galli wrote: Why then are terms like "everyone" being used? Estate landlords are everyone, too, and if they don't get the bonus prims, their business is going to take quite a hit. That's right! But ummmm.... I think big mainland landowners are "everyone" too. Did you remember to protest the same way every time their businesses took a hit because LL kept favoring the islands? Still, I do agree with you because two wrongs do not make one right. Ideally mainland and islands should be allowed to "compete" on equal terms with no artificial privileges to either and certainly not different artificial privileges to each. The only ral difference should be the one that is inherent in the two models: cozy little hideaways on islands and bustling communal life on mainland. I guess it's too late for that though. And we still don't know if the change only applies to mainland. They are taking it in steps, I can confirm that since one of my sims already has had two prim increases. I guess Beatles was wrong: Tomorrow does know - at least this time.

Prokofy Neva wrote: What does double prims mean for Mainland rentals? If it really is for Mainland only, it may help balance things a bit so that Mainland rentals again can compete on reasonably equal terms with island based ones. I heard that used to be possible in earlier days but that was before my time in SL so to me that alone is a brand new experience.

Prokofy Neva wrote: This is kind of a funny gift - if this is it -- because with mesh, we've already seen the trend toward way less prims or "land impact". I routinely see half or less prims on people's parcels nowadays than they actually rent because they are getting mesh houses that have much less prims than prim houses And I had finally managed to use most of my prims at Coniston! Needed ten full sim sky paltforms to have room for them all.

I suppose the revolutionary news broke early and it had nothing to do with that mysterious new build but: Qie Niangao wrote: It seems as if you have special knowledge. Oh no, I'm just trying to sound mysterious. But really, you can figure out a lot simply by studying the map. (Am I the only one who noticed the workshop sim LDPW had just east of the new continent btw?) The 24 1024 m2 houses in each of the residental sims for example, are clearly visible on the map. As for the double prim count, well, they can't possibly have used more than 3000 LI on the build itself (and even that's a bit too much) and that means about 12,000 available for the residents. Divide that by 24 and you're very close to double the normal 1024 prim quota. (Edit: that's with the old prim quota of course. With the new double prims per sim the prim allowance for those houses must be even higher) You can also deduce quite a bit by knowing LDPW's modus operandi. It's even possible to make an educated guess which Moles are involved in this particular build. I'll be very surprised if we won't find Ancient Mole and Naughty Mole hevaily represented as creators and/or owners of the meshes there. Qie Niangao wrote: I've been trying to ignore this part, over in the other thread, where you said "As to who it's for, well, this isn't something that's going to interest any Mainlanders or Islanders or Lindens and that leaves us with just one group of potential inhabitants." I thnk that's fairly obvious. Generally, the people who still hold on on Mainland tend to be here because of Mainland. We're not interested in moving to some kind of isolated ghetto, not even if the houses are twice as big as the old Linden homes. The islanders generally want something bigger, more luxirious and probably with a much lighter color scheme and - above all - with far more privacy than they can hope for at a build like that. The Lindens themselves aren't looking for inworld housing, they don't even use the palces they have at Linden Village. And I think just about everybody who already own or rent land elsewhere in SL want far more freedom to choose their environment than they can possibly get in a place like that. The only existing large group of users I can think of who would be interested in moving to such a place, are the ones currently living in Linden Homes. I can't for my life imagine they're introducing some sort of "super premium" offer so I'm quite sure we're talking about increasing the land tier for regular premum members here. Question is: is that increase only for those who agree to live in thse new Linden Homes or does it also apply to those who choose to use their premium tier elsewhere? In either case it's going to have a huge impact on the land sales and rental market.

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: I vote that it will either be bigger Linden homes (*cough - for a higher premium fee), or Bento. I think it's worth noticing that it's Patch who's in charge of this new thing and he's not involved in Bento in any way. What he is involved in right now, is a new 58 sim continent: 34 sims with 816 1024 m2 houses, 12 water sims, six "experience sims" of different sorts and six "temples" or "hubs" or whatever you like to call them. I think you should focus on that and the question is, how can something like that change SL forever?