solstyse

rigged mesh is actually what I was thinking when I gave my answer. The OP didn't say clothes, but as soon as I read the question that's all that I thought about. Sorry about that.

How old is old? What are your hardware specs? And did you do a clean install, as in uninstalling the old viewer first?

Gald it's working. I don't know if the solution I offered was the only one, but I knew without a doubt it was the easiest

Not even opensim gives land away. That's something to think about. Plus there is the fact that tier is LL's big cash cow. Honestly, what I wish LL would do is release their latest analysis about where they should set tier prices for maximum profitability. The tier rates do seem high, and the charts I've seen about loss of land seems compelling. However, I think that if LL would do such an analysis today, then while tier could drop a bit in price, then it would still be significantly higher than the $50 to host an opensim land. The truth is that while those of us who ren't renting and subletting large parcels complain about tier, there are still enough people who can and do pay to keep the grid alive.

Just do a fresh install of the viewer. You'll have to uninstall it, then download and install the latest version.

I added you And I think about what you're saying quite often. And I agree completely. Well, probably more like 90%. I don't think the problem is so much the existance of mundane jobs, as the amount of time required at them to simply make ends meet. There will always be a need in the world for clerks, janitors, and trash collectors. And some brilliant people may take jobs like that simply because they prefer to stay out of the corporate rat race. Or maybe it's because they didn't have the time to really hone their skills. Maybe these people have a brilliant, revolutionary idea, but are forced to either work a second job or devote all their earnings to mere survival, leaving nothing for them to bring these ideas to light. Another factor, I think is that if necessity is the mother of invention, then hope is the father. Without optimism that a certain need or want can ever be fulfilled, people won't even try.I can understand that to an extent, and even relate to it. Pessimism breeds laziness and complacency. So I can see the viewpoint that naysayers have of things which haven't been proven. What baffles me is when you can practically beat someone over the head with viability, naming commercially available products or combinations of them that re capable, pointing to all the specifications and qualifications that have been met, and still they'll insist that something can't be done, that it won't work, etc. there is a defined difference between being unable to see the light at the end of a tunnel and being unable to see the light that surrounds you. I think often of how every child has hopes and dreams. That someday they'll grow up to be somebody. That they will change the world for the better. They'll be the next great inventor, or engineer, or maybe a local hero like a firefighter. I find myself trying to analyze all the ways that those same people as adults are devoid of all that hope and enthusiasm. It all makes me draw some scary conclusioins about modern society.

Mesh, by nature, can't be resized once it's uploaded.. We all wish it could.

I've been through a couple of updates with Lumiya. True, it's not as nice as on a computer. But comparing the current version to I'd say two versions ago is like comparing playstation 2 to atari. Sure, the ps2 doesn't do all those cool things the ps3 got us used to, and there are some issues with graphics when there is a crowd (anyone ever play one of those Need for Speed games and get frustrated that cars pop up on screen out of nowhere to crash into?)... But at least it's better than Space Invaders! lol. Maybe it's seeing Lumiya evolve that makes me appreciate it as much as I do. "Textures are heavily downsampled to comply with Android memory usage limitations." "Terrain and sky are not textured." and "Particle systems, local lighting and other fancy features are not supported." are listed as limitations but I actually consider them to be some of my favorite features. In areas that are dominated with realistic grass, waves and waterfalls, or other water effects, fog, and the like, my computer running Firestorm struggles to render it all, while my phone with Lumiya on my phone that's all ignored and I can actually walk!

Congratulations for everything you've accomplished. There is another thread where I said LL should consider making an official viewer for mobile devices, and no amount of proof that I present will convince them that the technology to do so exists. I also use a mobile viewer from time to time, but I didn't innovate anything. I simply got Lumiya for my Atrix. Even more than what you've accomplished technically,congratulations on getting some recognition for it! Congrats for making a difference! I wish you the best of luck, and improved health.

http://www.amazon.com/N61JQ-X1-16-Inch-Versatile-Entertainment-Laptop/dp/B00352LQZS Is that your laptop? I would still get the ram due to it's low price. After all, the laptop retails for almost a grand. An extra $40 to make youself happier with it is a small price in comparison. if you got that one I have a few other suggestions. A review of this laptop by a customer who seemed objective listed tons of bloatware as one of the "cons" to buying this computer. He reported 80 running processes running at initial bootup, using 33% of his memory. That's quite a bit. A free fix is to uninstall any programs that came factory installed, and remove those you will use only occasionally from your startup folder.The operating system will still use some ram, but it should be nowhere near 33% after you do that.

Nalates Urriah wrote: I agree with Peggy. I think she understands the problems and points I made. Moving to mobile devices is a desirable thing, but she and I beleive the cost is prohibitive and the return on investment questionable. It is too soon for the Lab to do more than plan, learn, and experiement at this point. That's actually a very good point. TPV's do have a singificant cost advantage since their developers work for free, while LL employees do not. About the hardware... I'm thinking both of current users on aging x86 machines AND future mobile clients. I'm thinking more of the direction the market is taking than it's current state. I started this thread because I was actually surprised that in terms of sales, desktop computers are becoming more the "niche" and the sales of tablets has actually eclipsed the sale of even laptops (the current most popular form-factor in x86 computing.) Add to this the vast number of smartphones on the market, the rapid pace they are replaced at due to contracts coming with a discount on a new phone, and it's clear that this is both a market and a technology that can do nothing but grow. The benefit to the x86 consumer is showcased in Microsoft's business strategy. There IS a big divide in arm technology vs. x86. Nobody can deny that. So, what is Microsoft thinking? Well, Windows 8 uses x86 archetecture, but can run mobile style apps. How many Windows 7 programs could really fit on a tablet? The Microsoft Surface 8 Pro will be offered with either 64 or 128 gb of storage, which is massive for tablet standards. http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/surface-with-windows-8-pro/specifications Most are more like 32 gb. But even this pales iin comparison to the 500gb minimum that most laptops are shipped with. This tells me that the future is in smaller, sleeker apps. It's also important to point out that there is a mobile only version of Windows (Windows rt) which uses only RT apps, cannot run windows 7 programs, but to the end user has the same look and feel of Windows 8. And because of Microsoft's cross platform strategy there will be benefits even to the shrinking desktop/laptop crowd. I honestly believe that if LL takes a similar approach, as in streamlining things to run for those with the most popular of machines with the lowest of resources without sacrificing what we've come to expect, It would do good things for both sl's users and LL. Think about how happy all of the people who complain that SL is now too resource hungry for their computers would be if it was all more streamlined. Aging computers won't convince LL to do anything. But maybe the rapidly growing tablet/smartphone/chromebook etc. market can. Right now, just like Windows 8 on x86 vs Windows RT on ARM, those who wish to use SL are a bit more limited in terms of what the viewer would be able to do. As one critic of Lumiya correctly pointed out, the ability to see mesh is vital, and support hasn't been added yet. I'm confident that it will be, and that if the hardware is what's holding that back, then it won't be for long. In a very real way, I see that as proof of what I said in the above paragraph. think about how many people on older computers complained when the mesh enabled viewers used so many more resources than the old ones. Think about how many people held onto Phoenix until the bitter end because Firestorm is so "heavy." Think about how many still use Singularity because it doesn't require so much of their systems. But maybe right now LL's market analysts ARE taking the "wait and see" approach you mentioned. Maybe they need to see if this "single interface" approach that Microsoft is taking will translate into profits before they're willing to try something similar.If that's the case, then I have to admit you're right about it being too early. Or maybe they're waiting until the hardware gets just a little better so they won't need to omit any features. If that's what they're doing, well then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Everything I have said about bandwidth was a response to what someone else had to say about it. I think several on this thread were under the impression that I was suggesting running SL on 4g. I wasn't. I lost count of how many times I mentioned 802.llb/g/n. Which traditionally connects to a broadband modem. then the moot arguement of broadband data caps ensued, making me feel that it's necessary to point out the plethora of reasons why if that broadband network is already on second life, then the presence of an 802.11 network downstream of the modem will not have any effect on capped data. It's all in this thread, if you want to take the time to re-read. My phone won't be powerful to run sl until October of 2011. Oh, oops. It's 2013. And I already access SL on my phone via a program that I have already linked to in this thread, and that I have already posted the technical specs of in this thread. We can agree to disagree about whether or not an official LL viewer for ARM devices would be worth their time. You may even point to the limitations of Lumiya or even it's existence as your proof. We can surely see that from a different perspective. My argumentative tone comes from seeing myself misquoted, and then told that I don't know what I'm talking about because I use technology you haven't heard of. I don't mean that as an attack on you at all. Most people have no idea that an Android viewer even exists. The point is that the fact that you haven't heard of it doesn't make me the one who doesn't know. Now, I really wish you would be more willing to focus on the technicals of this, instead of taking on a condescending tone saying things like, " Obviously you don't have much of an idea of what SL or how it's delivered to the users" and "Rethink what you said. You are way off base." and justifying it with what basically amounts to speculatiion. Please, come with facts instead of insults. So, let's recap on some facts. The viewer you keep insisting doesn't exist is available here: http://www.lumiyaviewer.com/ and also here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_DirectoryThe native code parts are compiled for ARM and x86 processors. Several videos of it in use are here: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2012/10/lumiya-.html Performance specs are here: http://www.lumiyaviewer.com/index.php/features/3d-view but for your convenience I'll copy and paste a second time. Starting with version 2.0.0, Lumiya can show the Second Life world around you in 3D. However, it has some limitations, so please read the details below to see if it suits you. Performance, as of version 2.3.0: On modern phones and tablets with CPU frequencies in 1GHz range, it will give you around 10-20 FPS in quiet locations. Initial world generation takes a few seconds, and texture download may take longer. On older generation phones with CPU frequencies in 300 MHz range, it will give you around 1-3 FPS at best, and initial world generation takes tens of seconds. It may still be useful to give you a brief idea of your surroundings. Performance and memory requirements largely depend on draw distance. If you experience Out of Memory errors, reducing draw distance will help a lot. At busy locations with lot of avatars around, the framerate will inevitably drop. Limitations: Terrain and sky are not textured. "Mesh" is not supported. Sculpted objects are supported. Textures are heavily downsampled to comply with Android memory usage limitations. Particle systems, local lighting and other fancy features are not supported. And a screenshot (edited because I got the message "Only uploaded pictures may be linked" http://www.lumiyaviewer.com/index.php/screenshots Scroll over a bit until you find the 3d view. The phone that you don't think is powerful enough to run it even though it does is a Motorola 4g Atrix 2. Specs: http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_atrix_2_mb865-4199.php and here: http://www.motorola.com/us/consumers/MOTOROLA-ATRIX-2/73912,en_US,pd.html?selectedTab=tab-2&cgid=mobile-phones#tabWhen you read through, pay special attention to the release date (October 2011.) processor (Dual core 1ghz Cortex A9, Dual Channel RAM with Advanced 3D Graphics Acceleration), memory (8 GB storage onboard, microSD, up to 32GB, 2 GB included) and wlan (Wi-Fi 802.11 a/b/g/n, DLNA, Wi-Fi hotspot) So far, I have shown an example of a tpv that does what I say LL should do. So, that's been done. And I showed an example of a device capable of using said tpv. I have thouroughly and ad nauseum discussed the method by which this device transfers data. (802.11n secured networkto get from the phone to the modem, uncapped broadband from the modem to the internet. But because I use this technology and you do not, I need to "rethink what I'm saying. I'm far off base, and obviously I don't have much of an idea what SL is or how it's delivered to it's users." And this is all based on the fact that you think it'll be 3 to 5 years and require a major revamp of SL to do what I've proven can be done. I takew no issue with you disagreeing with me about the timing, or thinking that it would be more economically viable for LL to wait. We can disagree about the level of demand. I will happily debate all of those points with you. But if you're going to continue using the kind of language toward me that you've been, then it's time to back it up with some facts.

ram for that laptop is only $40. Not a bad investment, in my opinion. I was happy going from 4 to 6 gigs. but 8 for you is so cheap you may as well.

Qui, phones seem to have different problems based on where they're located. Just south of you in the US, most of the people I know are required by their wireless contract to "buy" a certain amount of data per month. And if you're running completely from 4g then it's possible to run over the minimum. However, there is so much wifi coverage that the big complaint here is "My battery doesn't last like it used to." One of the most popular apps here is one that only enables your wifi to enable with the screen turned on so that your phone isn't sniffing out new networks while it's in your pocket. And my phone provider doesn't track data that's delivered via wifi. Only data delivered via 4g.

Actually I was quite on base when what I wrote is looked at in the context that I wrote it. You're on second life anyway. That uses your bandwidth anyway. If you take the time to actually read and comp0rehend what I said, INTERNET USAGE IS THE SAME WHETHER IT IS DELIVERED VIA ETHERNET CABLE OR WIFI. In otherwords, using an 80211n router will not cause second life to suddenly cause data overages if used the same as it was being used on an old fashioned wired ethernet. Thus, it is impossible for a device using an ARM chip to consume more data than an x86 chip. The ONLY variable in data consumptiion rate is the habits of the human being using the device that transfers the data. Cable, DSL, "free" wifi, 4g, and even dialup are nothing more than delivery methods. 80211 simply takes the delivered data from the internet and distributes it to devices within it's network. Now, IN CONTEXT due to the fact that the data provider, regardless of which delivery method they use charge the same for all data distributed within a network, the device has no effect on fees. Seeing as how broadband has a single connection point to the outside (the internet) how that data is distributed downstream of that connection (the local network) is moot. If your internet is capped, and your secondlife use doesn't put you over that cap, then accessing sl through a different device is a perfectly safe thing to do. That's the reaso n why it's so confusing that you would even mention broadband. You even agreed with what I said in the same paragraph you told me to rethink it. Compare the parallels. I wrote: Wifi is your own local network, independant of your internet. Devices are connected by your own router, regardless of whether or not you have your modem plugged in. Then you wrote: Yeah your wifi is a local network. Whether a public wifi hotspot (like an Internet cafe, or your local library) or your personal network with a router. Depending on the setup for that local network any device connected to the network can communicate freely with other devices connected to the network........without any need for an Internet connection. Are you telling me that the reason why it's wrong to cal the sky blue is because it's blue? Here's another parallel. I wrote: SL's servers are going to send and recieve the same amount of data via the modem whether your connection is wired or wireless. Then you wrote: If that service is only available via the Internet (such as Second Life) there is only one place to obtain that service.......the Internet. Your local network is independant from the Internet but not if your device needs the Internet to deliver what you request of it. Rethink what you said..........you are way off base. Maybe you can explain how paraphrasing me makes you correct while I'm "way off base."? Again I remind you that the context of discussion about the internet and modems is that while using second life, the data usage is there regardless of whether or not your local network is wireless.

What made you decide to use the on screen keyboard? I only ask because there are several optiions for keyboards, mice, and joysticks now that are bluetoth enabled. I imagine that an Ipad would have an accessory keyboard that it can dock into available, based upon the fact that Apple usually leads the way in terms of accessories and I've already seen such things for Microsoft and Android tablets.

Cincia Singh wrote: There are outside forces that make an ARM viewer problematic beyond the computing power and graphics discussion. SL isn't a game that resides on the device and gets minimal downloaded data updates, it has to be constantly streamed both up and down (and upload speeds for the vast majority of broadband users are horrendously slow). How would SL address data caps that would be blown away by a game like SL? Even the cable broadband internet providers are instituting data caps on their services so WiFi isn't above the fray either. Building a viewer for ARM might get devices the ability, but how many people will be willing to pay for the increased data cap to play? Actually, the fact is that very little of anything resides on an arm device. The technology, with it's low specs would seem unusable otherwise. That's the reason why when you get a smartphone, you are required by your provider to get a data plan. Think about standard office programs. Google docs: cloud based. Microsoft Office: Cloud connected even for desktops. (while the desktop allows local storage, Office is now available as a subscription service that gives the "owner" account 20gb of skydrive space while other users on the machine get the standard 7gb that comes with any Microsoft account. As for cable boradband instituting data caps, how is that even an issue? Wifi is your own local network, independant of your internet. Devices are connected by your own router, regardless of whether or not you have your modem plugged in. A tablet isn't going to use more bandwidth or consume more data than a desktop is. If anything, due to the efficiency of app codes compared to full programs, it may use less. SL's servers are going to send and recieve the same amount of data via the modem whether your connection is wired or wireless. Netflix and youtube are both "streaming" services. And I have yet to meet the Android user who is hesitant to use them due to data caps.

Welcome to sl It seems like you want to do a little bit of everything, so I highly suggest you check the destinations tab on the website. you'll find clubs, areas that are more like 3d chats, and areas that are purely for roleplay, where you're encouraged to be someone besides yourself. Many of the 3d chat areas are basically "come as you are." while many of the rp areas either give you notecards or direct you to a website that will give you a better idea about what the theme of the land is.

Maelstrom Janus wrote: He didnt state the obvious which is that Lindens charges way too much for use of its world, does nothing to recompense customers who have been totally inconvenienced by bungles it admitted were its fault but used its weasley worded tos to dodge any responsibility for....in fact has no grasp of quality customer service at all or even who its main customers are. As for sl being dead - well look how much of the map is yellow and tot up how many people you see during an evening random exploring. No point pointing it out though anyone should know that the people at Lindens dont take any notice of its customer base and the guy in charge is intent on using sl to satisfy his own agenda... As usual though someone says sl dead and the equally pigheaded 'no it isnt -such and such said it was dead in 2006 - blah blah blah' brigade... who cant even conceive that things need to be changed to give sl a much need shot in the arm (and win back former members who cancelled membership payments after several years of avidly supporting sl ) start crawling out of the woodwork...... Yeah. $0 is way over my budget. That's price gouging for sure. Deat, to a corporation, means that expenses have eclipsed revenues. When that happens, LL will be unable to maintain it's servers, and the grid will go down. I logged on recently enough to feel reasonably confident that it's still here.

Qie Niangao wrote: The technology is there. It's already been done by a tpv. The controls are horrendous though. I think that's the most enduring challenge for 3D virtual worlds on touch devices. In contrast, the processing limitations will take care of themselves soon enough. Designing a really user-friendly way to get around SL without the accuracy of a pointing device... I suppose it depends how much it must support, but imagine implementing the full Build Tool in Lumiya. The topic is important because marketshare numbers understate the shift -- and they're already pretty overwhelming. (See slides 24 - 26 in Mary Meeker's "Internet Trends Year-End Update" for Kleiner Perkins.) The reason even those hockeystick graphs understate the situation for SL is that there's an even more dramatic shift to mobile platforms for the crucial recreational hours spent with eyeballs on a screen. If SL isn't the virtual world that supports those platforms, somebody else will -- and at that point, gamers sitting in front of big cushy 4K screens really won't be driving the market. I jusst want to build on the stats you've stated. One of the reasons for the success of mobile internet is the increase in efficiency. If you even look at the system requirements for a full feature viewer, then for Windows Vista, 3gb ram is recommended. For Linux, it's only 1. Android, which shares the Linux kernel is inherently more efficient. Now, I'll admit that my laptop is overdue for it's bi-annual Windows 7 clean install. And I'll also concede that Lumiya for the android os does lack some of SL's newest features. However, my 1 ghz smartphone in 3d view makes walking around easier than my 2.3 ghz laptop. While I expect improvement after my reinstall and optimize session, I don't realistically expect that the laptop will reach the efficiency of the phone. Why? Because of the difference in philosophy by developers of mobile apps and x86 programmers. Qie, I think someone at Microsoft saw a chart similar to the one you showed when they dreamed up the metro ui. Creating a "similar user experience" was actually the philosophy behind laying that UI on top of every single version of windows that exists. The bottom line is that the world's biggest OS is no longer designed with desktops in mind. And I expect that when 2013 shows up on those charts you linked to, the Metro US is actually going to cause a steeper curve in both the decline of the desktop and the rise of mobile computing. Let's face it. A UI designed for touch is something that the desktop user is the least likely of anyone to truly enjoy. Right now, you can get around it by pressing win-d to get into desktop mode, buy a $300 touchscreen monitor (which defeats one of the desktop's biggest advantages-lower cost for higher specs) or $70 for a "touchmouse" (a combination mouse and touchpad that lest you do all the gestures that Metro was designed for) or you can use an old fashioned mouse and constantly go to the corner hotspots to do anything. But that is not saying that there are no advantages to the desktop user. Win 8 has system requirements that are identical to win7. But it can run smaller, more efficiient "apps" instead of full programs, which to the end user do the same thing, only more efficiently. It boots quicker, and executes win7 programs with a negligable boost in speed. Add to this the 7gb of skydrive space they throw in with a Microsoft account, the ability to sync across multiple devices and the "in your face" cloud connectivity, and it's clear that the operating system that most people will be running when they replace their old machines is designed with mobile in mind. I think that as time goes on, the legacy desktop will go the way of FAT32. The public will be weaned off of old style programs, and toward smaller apps. What all this means is that even as ARM's specs increase due to Moore's law, the need and desire for local storage will actually decrease. More of he processing will take place on the server side, following the mobile model. Plus, as ARM gains capabilities, it's concievable that more apps will requiere the use of peripherals. I use the same wireless mouse with my phone as I do with my lappy. The main reason why I think LL should make a viewer for ARM is the point I made about win8 vs. win7. Designing a single UI to place on both ARM and X86 chips broke Microsoft's habit of making every OS more resource hungry than it's previous. Focusing on optimizing for devices that are more mobile but less capable actually makes it benchmark a bit better. Someone else in this thread has actually already mentioned LL's habit of making it's viewer more and more resource hungry, despite the trend by the rest of the world to do the opposite. I honestly think that designing an official viewer for ARM devices will not only expose them to a new market. It also will make the standard x86 viewer more efficient, helping them retain long time residents.

What all the naysayers are saying is that this doesn't exist. http://www.lumiyaviewer.com/ And that it doesn't do this: Lumiya 2.3.3 - HUDs and terrain Lumiya 2.3.3 is available on Google Play. HUD support; Textured terrain in 3D view; Fly controls in 3D view; Optional high-quality textures; Chat messages and user keys can be copied to clipboard; "Clear cache" option in settings; Configurable texture memory limit; Configurable LED blinking for notifications; Option to restart sim for land owners; NEON-optimized code for texture decompression; Performance, as of version 2.3.0: On modern phones and tablets with CPU frequencies in 1GHz range, it will give you around 10-20 FPS in quiet locations. Initial world generation takes a few seconds, and texture download may take longer. On older generation phones with CPU frequencies in 300 MHz range, it will give you around 1-3 FPS at best, and initial world generation takes tens of seconds. It may still be useful to give you a brief idea of your surroundings. Performance and memory requirements largely depend on draw distance. If you experience Out of Memory errors, reducing draw distance will help a lot. At busy locations with lot of avatars around, the framerate will inevitably drop. Limitations: Terrain and sky are not textured. "Mesh" is not supported. Sculpted objects are supported. Textures are heavily downsampled to comply with Android memory usage limitations. Particle systems, local lighting and other fancy features are not supported. The technology is there. It's already been done by a tpv. The controls are horrendous though. Using it on a small screen has it's inherent flaws, and on a larger screen I have to use a mouse and do a lot of click and drag for functions that were designed for touch. The program actually works quite well, but I'm sure a better user interface could be made. So yes, it makes perfect sense for LL to do what has already proven to be possible. The ARM crowd is already accustomed to getting the "lite" version of any software they use.

The only thing that XP could have to do with it is that the hardware from the era when xp was considered the OEM operating system has become quite long in the tooth. Computers that have been upgraded as hardware improved but kep XP as their OS won't have issues. But one that hasn't been upgraded is probably running a single core processor, and AGP graphics. That's a bad combonation for just about everything anymore. XP itself is not a problem yet, but it will be since we're right around the time for Microsoft to cut off support.

Blaz Neuman wrote: wow, that's weird !!!! It's like saying every software installed on a pc uses some ram even if you don't launch it... :matte-motes-oh-rly: Do you want to see something crazy? Open your operating system's task manager and click on the processes tab. Granted, it's not every program in your computer, but you'll be surprised at how many programs have background processes going on even though you didn't manually launch them.

Boo! lol. Sorry. I couldn't resist.

You need a different skin. Bras and panties are only painted on female skins. Male skins for underaged people have underwear that's much more appropriate for your guy avatar.