solstyse

this thread is too funny. My only experience with prim breasts has been reading posts by people asking why they don't look right. Peronally, I think it would be wiser, simpler, and better looking to just move a fw sliders. but I guess after some peole have spent the money it turns into, "This WILL work, so that I didnt' get ripped off." there are some nice mesh pants nad skirts availbable. I think the only reason that the "full diaper" look is big right now is because it's easy to achieve compared to how it used to be. for the record, I don't see anywhere near as much of this inworld as I do on the mp. So maybe it has just as much to do with the frequency of mesh designers using templates.

Kwakkelde, my personal feelings are much the same as yours. My cloud use is for things that do nothing that reveal who I am. For anything sensitive, I'm much the same as you. As for personal privacy, I don't do facebook or twitter. I seperate sl from rl, etc. My views on how the internet should be handled are very old fashioned. But I see a growing trend in people who disagree with me. I see people who think like me, and I suspect like you, as a shrinking demographic. As for the OnLive system, I have gotten a bit of an education about how it, and other server-based systems work. You're exactly right when you say, "Pretty much everything is done at the server's end so all your box has to do is drawing a picture and telling the server what you're up to. This means the hardware on such a thing can be very low spec and very dedicated to one simple task and therefor cheap like you say." However, experience has shown me that you're srong when you say, "It also means there is probably zero compatibility with other systems that don't share the same architecture. Like any console, the programs for it are very dedicated to one particular setup. This allows better performance again with lower specs, but it also means it's pretty much useless for PC's, both low end and high end systems, since not two are the same." because the whole setup is designed to allow programs that are built on completely different proprietary hardware (xbox 360 vs PS3) to run on the same device. The "console" that I showed you is based on ARM archetecture, but the subscribtion service is available for both the console, and for PC's. Furthermore, in the video that I linked, directX games can be accessed from a Linux machine. Now, directX belongs to Microsoft, and isn't available for Linux or Mac OS. But by using servers, users of both of those other OS's are capable of playing games that are written exclusively for windows. The bottom line is that the more "server side" a program is, the more compatible it is, with a greater range of hardware options and a greater range of operating system options. without trying it, I can't blame you for your skepticism. i was a skeptic before I saw it in action. The phone market seems to be in a state of constant change, much like the PC market used to be. but PC's have in a way matured, and their growth potential has slowed dramatically. there was a rule that the resources that a hardware provided was used at the same rate by software developers to add new features, resulting in the consumer seeing no boost to speed. And then there's the fact that Moore's law seems to have taken a shine to newer archetecture. What I keep trying to say is that the weaker archetecture of ARM is now growing exponentially, while x86 in it's maturity is struggling to gain clock speed. The result inevitably is that the old "bloat" of x86 software is taking a trip to the proverbial gym, while ARM continues to be capable of running larger programs. Now, the ARM operating systems are based on the Linux kernel. Linux is much more "lightweight" than Windows. What I see the market demanding in the coming years is the power of x86, with the efficiency of ARM. In other words, the best of both. x86 would be the clear winner for years to come, except that the cost of x86 is purely on the wallet of the user, while ARM is paid for mainly by the provider. Now, we're from two different coutries, so I'm not sure how the phone market is handled in yours.And you made me curious about the dollar to euro exchange rate, but i'll look that up after I posted. In the US, electronic devices often cost less to buy than they did to make. The catch is that you often pay more for use. For example, a printer often costs as much as the ink for the very same printer. The included ink cartriges often hold less than the "replacement" cartriges. The Amazon Kindle" is sold at a loss, because Amazon knows that if you have the device, you'll pay for content. Similarly, cell phone companies often sell the phones ofr less than they're worth, practically giving away all but the high end like what you described, because they know that they'll get that money back over the term of the contract, which is so itemized it's not funny. On my own contract, which includes three lines, the "middle" line to the provider in terms of usage is the most expensive, because it is the "primary" line. In other words, the contract prices go to the line that uses the middle of the road data. Of course, that is because there is a "voluntary lock" on the lowest phone, and the highest phone spends less time within 80211 networks as the "middle primary" phone. I really think that a phone's growth will become dependant more on clock speed, as cannonical is trying to bring the Ubuntu to the phone, motorola screwed up the whole "phone desktop" thing, and Samsung continues their war with Apple with Microsoft in their sights. I think Win8 is proof that Microsoft knows they need to do something drastic. And I think that the "ultrabook" line by intel is telling the same thing. I have faith that both companies will stay around for a long, long tilme, but I think that the reason is because they both seem to understand the market very well. And yess, I said below $1/gb. that's because I see ssd's as the way of the future. Hdd's are kind of archaic. they are the cheapest way of tetting more storage than you need. And you're right, Hdd's are far below what I've quoted. But really, I see local storage as an old fashioned way of doing things now. 3tb is way more than most people need. I don't even use the 500gb of storage that came with my machine. With the efficiency upgrades I see coming to x86 archetecture, I firmly believe that the demand for local storage will decrease, while demand for read/write speeds will greatly increase.

Well, the win8 problems with sl aren't on every single computer. That tells me that the issue isn't how the OS handles the viewer, but how it translates between the viewer and the hardware. to tell the truth, I hope I start out with some problems so that I can go in depth about what I had to do to make it work. Driver issues pop up with every even numbered Windows OS. With Vista, there just wasn't any motivation to solve the problems. At that time, everyone on XP was quite satisfied with how it worked. Many still are. Win7 was nothing more than what Vista should have been. It added a lot of functionallity to all those "useless" vista features. Now, Win7 remains the popular OS. I LOVE 7. But I got a legit copy of Win8 for only $68. And I've seen it work. It boots up faster, and it handles cpu processes much more efficiently. The Win8 UI is a face that only a mother can love, and she'd have to be blind to do so. But the task manager and advanced indexing that's underneath that ugly fascade is what I'm after. As for getting used to the look of Win8, all you have to do is ease yourself into it. Press win+d right at startup, or any time really, and you'll have a more familiar Win7-esque look. Maybe it'll be easier for me than most to get used to it, since I already switch regularly between xp, 7(with and without aero), 8, unity, gnome, and ics (still mourning the loss of gingerbread and webtop 2.0 on my motorola) If you do a lot of your computing from the "runline" then 8 works just as well as 7. I guess what I'm getting at is that I think Vista was just released as something to hold Microsoft over until they could get Win7 ready. After all, XP is the longest running OS they ever made. The market was pretty well saturated. by the time Vista came out, there were no 98se/me/2k machines left as anyone's "Primary" computer. Microsoft needed something to sell. Win8 is a bit different. I'm convinced that it exists to sell other hardware. By making the UI the same as what they use on their "lesser" electronics, they're hoping to boost their sales in markets other than PC's. That tie-together has made the PC UI quite a bit uglier than it used to be, but from it we gain better handling of multitasking and indexing, lighter, more efficient software, etc. So, there are people right now struggling with Win8 not wanting to run sl. Well, there were people strugglling to run SL on slow computers too. I think my experience with Win8 will lead to another thread.

Maybe you can google what the thresholds are in your state. I'm not usre about what your local laws are, but I'm pretty sure they vary wildly. Ther is the question also of what taxes were applied at the time of transaction. I mean, in PA, something like a "yard sale" doesn't really count. There is a law that "tips must be reported" but that doesn't count. Notarized sales are charged a "sales" tax, but seldom an income tax. Real world example, in PA, all sales of cars are covered by sales tax, to a limit of five in a twelve month period. On car number six, you must apply for a business licence as a dealership. Then you get into a business tax code that I'm not familiar with. So, it's a big grey area, when it comes to taxes. A local tax professional could help you much more than any of us can. Your best bet is ask your tax preparer what the thresholds in your state are.

16, you beat me to it. The main issue iwth Win8 is that it tends to install Microsoft "generic" drivers to replace the Win7 drivers, most of which came direct from the manufacturer. Now, I am determined. It will work. So when it does, should I post the steps I took to make it happen ere, or on a seperate thread? In other words, which way of posting would help more people?

Kwakkelde, I pretty much agree with everything in your latest post, except maybe for some minor details. You're right about the gaming crowd. The age of the consoles that are out there are causing them to look again to PC's. It'll go back and forth like that for a while, I think. New console comes out, and only the most dedicated stick to PC gaming. Consoles age, and people come back fo the better hardware. The biggest advantage that the consoles have is standardized hardware. Upgrading was a constant thing before consoles became networked. Now, as you and I said, computers have stabilized enough that most people can be happy for 4-5 years on a $500 dollar purchase. I'm of the opinion that software needs to be written to last the average lifespan of the machine that runs it. Thus, I think a computer should need to be at least 4-5 years old before it struggles with SL. We can blame marketing and manufacturers for some people having problems with computers that are 2-3 years old, but now it's LL who has to deal with their loss of satisfaction, either by letting those customers go, or by using their coding skills to keep them. And I also agree that whether a phone or pc is faster depends on circumstance. There are a few factors in this. One is the code. Arm devices typically use less code to perform the same functiion compared to x86. So, yeah, I'm fully aware that the hardware specs are still a long way off. But the efficiency of the code makes it feel like the divide is much smaller than it is. I think that in a big way, Windows is trying to address that by using the more lightweight apps that are available for the first time in win8. It's common in America for business computers to be some of the oldest around, so yes, they are very outdated, and very slow. Also, they use older software that is just "patched" for new functions, which of course leads to bugs and broken code. Obviously, tech companies are an exceptiion. One of the biggest complaints of American workers was "My home computer is faster, cheaper, and more reliable." Now, we talk the same about our phones. In a major way, the problem is that x86 has the power advantage. But ARM has a very clear marketing advantage. Nobody complains about replacing their phone every two years because they are subsidized. But the average person now demands a minimum of 4 years from a PC. The reason is that phones are subsidized, while computers are not. Plus, x86 has already had it's rapid growth spurt. That led to some sloppy code. Now that growth is slowing, x86 software can refine, and mature into cleaner code. But this presents a problem to hardware manufacturers. Storage cost is virtually free. HDD's dollar to gigabyte ratiio is under a $1/1gb ratio. With 3tb drives available, and code becoming more efficient, the need for further development is no longer felt by the consumer. 2-7 free gigabytes of cloud storage are easy to get from multiple companies. So the issue is that as consumers are becoming capable of doing more and more on the hardware that their cellular provider practically gives away, they are going to demand cheaper and cheaper hardware. Even savvy consumers who account fro the added power of the PC are going to expect that PC to have a longer and longer lifespan, simply because every dollar spent on a PC comes from their own pocket. I honestly would double the timeframe per dollar amount that you've quoted. I expect that if you spend $500 on a computer, then after 4 years a laptop would be ready for replacement, while a desktop is ready for a bit of upgrading. but everyone's personal experiences are different. Much of what LL does is already serverside. And the recent change to character baking kind of hints that they're thinking the same thing I am. maybe what I'm saying can be considered giving their new direction a vote of confidence? Can I make a confession right now? I, like many people I now find myself arguing with frequently on these forums, used to feel that ARM was weak, that the cloud was just a bullshiz trend, and that the power of the PC's we currently use is necessary. But then I saw an OnLive system in action. Not at a show, or anything. In my brother's living room. Here's a couple links. http://www.onlive.com/game-system http://www.onlive.com/about What I saw was the "console" which is an arm device about the size of a cigarette pack, The first time I saw it my brother was using it to play Saints Row 2. or 3, maybe. One of those. and it was flawless. My mind was changed. the most impactful statement comes from http://www.gizmag.com/onlive-tv-cloud-game-system-announced/17084/ The author says, "As the games are actually stored at Onlive's data centers, users should always have the latest version..... Another major advantage for players is that many of the hardware upgrades necessary for the frequently changing gaming landscape can be undertaken at the server end and not by the consumer." What I'm calling OnLive isn't the inventor or genius behind the points I'm trying to make, but they are the "poster child, or example, or representative, mascot".... whichever word you find most fitting. these kind of server based services also make DirectX games available to OpenGL operating systems such as Linux, Apple, and even Android. That's why I say it's possible for LL to do the same thing. If a $99 dollar cigarette pack sized device can play both xbox and ps3 games, then why should we think that using sl on a $500 laptop should be considered impossible after only 4-5 years? Kwakkelde, I would have disagreed with me if I hadn't seen things like I'm referencing in action. It's been a fun debate, and I respect you as a person. I can vouch for all the links I've posted. I've seen these things in action. If you remain even slightly skeptical after reading the links I posted, then test these things for yourself. If you want to take me up on that challenge without spending $99 for an Onlive console, then download a distrobution of Ubuntu, use wubi to install it so that it doesn't harm your partition table, Then, try any of the clients that are mentioned in this video almost all of these are for Windows native games playing in environments they wren't made for. and they're mostly cloud based.Sometimes, I think that we ignore what we're capable of, and instead limit ourselves to what others tell us we can do. Interesting fact... I would have posted this within my Ubuntu 12.10 partition, but I need to prepare Win7 to be upgraded to win 8... All because someone told me that Win8 doesn't like sl. Let's all do what we're told can't be done. Let's all challenge ourselves. "It can't be done" is an answer that is against our nature to accept. Let us all refuse to be limited by what we're told. There is no such thing as impossible.

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Windows 8 has issues with SL. it has been reported in many many threads. I'll be testing that theory next. I just got a copy. I hate the UI, but I really, really want it's efficient task manager. Should I put the results on this thread, or start a new one? Cause I promise, it will work on my machine.

Payment info is a bad idea. Honestly, if I see that on a sim, or a parcel, then my immdeiate response is "why the ____ do you care?" and I instantly get paranoid that the restriction is there because you want only people who are worth scamming on your land. you're safe, since LL did the verification for you. If you want to be extra careful then you can qote tos in your rules, and restrict or ban child avatars.

If it's all studio work that you're doing, then turn everything on, turn all sliders on high. Other than that, it's really a matter of what's pleasant to your eyes.

Forgot to add. Resource monitor... You can hit ctrl+shift+escape to bring up task manager. then click performance. You can press ctrl+alt+del then click resource monitor, then click performance. you can press the win key, then type resource monitor. this version is more detailed. It's the one I prefer to use.

Czari, You said you installed a hard drive before, right? Well, ram and video cards are actually easier, since you don't have to screw them down. See, when you buy ram, it might cost $40 to buy it in a box, but then cost $150 to buy the same memory installed. so i guess it's both expensive and cheap. Grounding yorself is as easy as touching something metal to discharge. You know how sometimes when you reach for a metal doorknob you get a static electric shock? Well, that's all that you're trying to prevent. 4gb of ram is what Microsoft recommends for just the OS. (2 is the official minimum, but 4+ is the official recommended.) Windows 8 has the same requirements listed as Win7, but it runs more efficiently. If you can't stand the UI, then you can push win d to get a more familiar look. Unfortunately, you'll keep ending back in that ugly tile screen, but until you get used to it, you can minimize your time there. Someone suggested a linux machine. Now, I prefer to run linux on a computer that's about 2 years old. It makes researching for compatible drivers/hardware much easier, and since it is a lighter OS, building for windows then switching later, or better yet, dual-booting givess you the best of both worlds. Network cards are usually on the motherboard, so they're not really cards. Official discs are only required for custom built machines. "factory" computers have a recovery partition that takes the place of physical media. But each copy comes iwth it's own licence, and can be installed for only one user. when a custom computer is built, a "system builder" licence is used. It is more expensive than other licences, and requiring it to be given with the new custom PC is Microsoft's way of discouraging piracy. Since you're confused about hardware, I have a quote for you. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7545249&CatId=4910 Add $100 for Windows 7 and you have a fully working PC. I know you can assemble it, even if you're not so sure. It's much more equipment for your money than having one built for you. And you don't have to research anything, other than what chip you want. Honestly, I just picked the first complete package I found for between $500 and $700. If you look online for "barebones kits" you'll probably find a better deal than even that.

I agree with you partly on the "Why" of windows8's efficiency. I would also add that I think the flood of low end laptops, and the release of Atom powered tablets have a lot to do with Microsoft's decisions too. Also, I think that the gaming crowd's desire to spend one time a decade on hardware is contributing significantly to the slowdown of x86 performance gains. My software use, I'd say, is probably 50/50. I spend more time using my phone than my pc. And I work in an a pllace that encourages that. We have multiple wifi networks, computers that are slower than our phones, so when someone needs a quick answer, we're actually told to use our phones. I also dual-boot my computer, so it's nice to have access to my stuff without rebooting because it's in a partition that I'm not using. You and I disagree about the idea of making more hapen serverside requiring a complete rewrite, unless I'm misunderstanding you. I think over the course of years, almost nothing would be the same anyway. So as time goes on, if the migratioin to server-side is gradual, it wouldn't feel as extreme as what you're describing. In a way, if they just start making the new code serverside, then it'll happen eventually nomatter what, just through natural evolution. I think compatibility is key in this economy. Your definition of exodus is a bit more severe than mine. There was a while when people were saying that PC gaming was dead. Obviously, they were wrong. But there was a reason why they thought that. And from what I have seen, for the more "hardcore" games consoles are still the weapon of choice. Now that the current generation is so old, computers have a chance. And gamers will never abandon the PC completely. I guess to me the move to consoles was significant enough to fit the word exodus, while to you it wasn't. Typically, I think that computer costs should be about $125 per year in hardware, if you average it out. So if you spent $500, you should be happy with your performance for about 4 years. Of course, that isn't always perfect. And more of these laptops have the graphics right on the cpu, which doesn't help. Computer replacement should happen only if either you've tried everything else, or you're generally unsatisfied with it. Not just for sl. And a wired connection isn't necessary. Wifi technology has come a long way. The thing I despise though is those people who will just repeat the "upgrade your hardware" mantra and then berate the person who said they can't or won't. That invariably is followed by a lecture about the direction that technology goes in. It's the same tired idiot script, and it tells me that the responder is more interested in flaming than in answering. That, and being misquoted. I tend to become a bit irrational when that happens. As for what Lumiya does with 1024 textures on clothing. I actually use that "bug" to my advantage. After I make something, I'll log on with my phone to make sure I don't look naked. lol. Not that I make much, but I want what I make to be optimized. now, if these textures were to, say, automatically reduce at the time that they're stored on the asset server, then they wouoldn't have to scale down for delivery to the viewers every time. If LL can make the grid, they can make that an automated process. I don't think they can make everything perfect, jjust better. Because you're right. It's the people who make sl unique.

Coby Foden wrote: solstyse wrote: Now, a less resource hungry sl is slightly within the user's power. But improvement on LL's part wouldn't require an entire rewrite of the code, either. There are simple things they can do. they can turn off hte ability to upload things that are not maximized, such as textures that are a higher resolution than sl can display. They can impose a limit on the size of scripts. There are already limits: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits Textures Maximum texture size - 1024×1024 pixels [it was earlier 2048×2048] (for avatar textures the maximum size is 512×512 pixels, for avatar eyes it is 128×128) Scripting Maximum script source code size - 65536 single byte characters. For specific scripting limits, lookup calls in the LSL Portal. So, we cannot, for example upload textures what are "bigger than what SL can display" (whatever you mean by that - I think there is no specified limit what SL could display). what I mean by bigger than sl can display is exactly what you linked to. If the maximum for clothing is 512, then anything bigger is, well, bigger. And what is a maximum, if not a specified limit? Now, I have uploaded 1024 textures for clothing, when the max is 512. I just forgot to shrink the template before saving the .png. but here's where it gets interesting. A full viewer, such as Firestorm or the official viewer, just displays the item as if I hadn't made that mistake. but a cut down viewer, like Lumiya, doesn't scale the texture down. It just refuses to show the item. That tells me that the texture is still saved as 1024, and is scaled back by rendering. Now, I could be wrong. but if I'm right, then a simple fix for LL would be to run a program to look at items by type (clothing, eyes, object, etc.) scale down the texture within the asset server, and re-save the file. In the meantime, adjust the viewer to prevent people from making the same mistake I did. make it impossible to upload a texture, or apply it, if it's too large for the item it is applied to. For scripters, there are programs out there that analyze code, and clean it up. they're frequently used on websites, but I'm sure an adaptation could be made to fit SL's needs. It would result in smaller, cleaner code. These are things that can be done, can be automated, and would be relatively invisible to the average sl resident. It's not really groundbreaking. It's no more innovative than making the grid itself was. the greatest thing about SL is that it's user created. And it should stay that way. But it's a decade old, and some of that old stuff is still laying around. I don't think my idea would work for everything, but it would work for a lot. And while the difference may not be huge, it'll still be there, and it'll still be noticable. there's a lot of internal "decluttering" that LL can do, if they're willing to do it in small pieces, and we're patient enough to wait for the invisible changes to prove themselves useful. Maybe LL is already thinking that. Maybe that's why they decided to do the server side baking. Who knows?

Google Robin Woods. She has nice templates that work in both gimp and ps. And her tutorials are very useful too.

Here's some advice for those who either can't afford a new computer, or find themselves thinking, "Just one more year! I can't justify it yet!" I have done some experimenting on a 3 year old HP g42-230 running Windows 7. I admit, it's not as barebones as you can get, since some people here are still using xp, but I hope that everyone who seems laggy can get some help from this. Here's how to improve performance while keeping eye candy sacrifices to a minimum. 1. Tweak windows, if that is your OS. Most onboard graphics will be either ATI or Nvidia. For Ati cards, search "CCC" without the quotations. Slide all adjustments from quality to the extreme end of performance. the visual difference is barely noticable. Now click start and type "power options" and click "show additional plans." select "high performance." You can dig deep into the advanced settings of this feature, but you don't need to. Again from start, type "Advanced system settings." click on that, then click on "performance." Here you can disable most aero features. Leave at least the last four turned on, though, or it'll look like Windows 2000, which isn't worth it. 2. Be picky about your viewer. They do not all perform the same. I tested a lot. Firestorm, I found to be resource hungry. Neirans was unstable on my computer (graphically) Kirstens worked fine, but the UI wasn't my style Coolviewer and Singularity looked too "old" for me, but performed well right as installed. Exodus and Catznip both looked alright, and after changing a few preferences worked very well for me. LL's own CHUI (which is an alternate viewer that I really hope becomes their main) had a very modern look, and all preferences were already set for performance. The only thing I didn't like is that the chat window, and any other open window stay opaque when you're walking, while they go transparent in the viewers I like to use. That is the one and only thing that prevented CHUI from being my top pick. In the end, I chose Catznip. It just barely squeaked ahead of Exodus and Neirans.But I used the preference settings in Chui to optimize it. Which brings us to our next part. 3. Optimize your viewer. You can find a balance between performance and quality. Turn off anything you don't use. A lot of people specifically mention voice. Set graphics to "mid" That will still look good. Maybe not photo-quality, but you'll still have transparent water, basic shaders, etc. You can do more here, but I chose to still have some visual appeal, so I left it at the "mid" default. There was an immediate difference. Now from graphics click hardware, and disable "anisotropic filtering." The only difference I saw from doing so is that sl seemed to speed up. Set bandwidth to about 1500. Strangely, Firestorm seemed to respond a bit less to these preference changes than the others did. but the counterpoint is that Firestorm has my favorite UI. Now, for the not so free stuff. Because if you find youself resorting to this, the next time you slow down, you're going to have to sacrifice either some money, or some eyecandy. So if you follow this guide, then start saving up. 1. Run resource monitor to see where your hardware weakness is before you buy anything. Whichever graph shows highest on average is where your weakness is. This is much more important on a desktop than on the test laptop I used. I found that memory usage was spending longer than I would have liked above 80%, so I upgraded from 4gb to 6gb. It made a big difference in performance for $20. Network usage for me was low, with an occasional spike. If yours is high, then you would benefit most from a new router. CPU usage is the one that you can do little with, on a laptop. On a desktop, you can replace your cpu or gpu. But on the lappy, usually you're stuck with what the factory gave you. Unfortunately for me, the test computer comes with an AMD Turion dual core APU with Graphics Chipset AMD M880G with ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4250 . But, by optimizing my viewer using the preference settings I'm posting, I managed to lower CPU usage by 10%, which makes a noticable difference. Finally, as your old laptop chugs along, and you start looking to newer machines, keep in mind that a desktop will typically have a longer lifespan before it reaches the point of being unsavably obsolete. As bottlenecks in performance on a desktop become apparent, parts may be changed one at a time to overcome them. With a laptop, your only option is often to replace the whole computer. Hope this helps someone.

Apparently, saying things in all caps doesn't make them more obvious either, since there are still people after I posted numerous times, the latest in caps that what I'm suggeswting is not that LL should make SL for tablets, but that tablet programming is having an effect on how desktop woftware is written. That wasn't supposed to make me more right. It was supposed to make me stop getting misquoted. And it failed. Now, the reason why Win8 uses the same resources as Win7 is because of this influence. Yes, it is a desktop environment. It is also available on tablets, but to try yet again to minimise self inflicted confusion, tablets are not what I'm talking about. Get it? Not. As in negative. As in opposite of is/are. The thing that makes Win8's requirements on par with Win7 is actually the tablet-style functionallity. See, I put -style. Meaning "not, but similar to." It is changes to the task manager that make it behave more like what we've seen from tablets than the win7 and previous desktop environments which keep it's requirements low. See? Again, I said "behave like." Not "is one." In fact, when multitasking, Win8 is actually easier on Win7 resource wise. It is true that the minimum system requirements lissted for both operating systems are the same. But the way that Win8 handles background processes and multiple processes is more efficient than Win7. In other words, each application or instance of it that is open in Win8 actually uses less of your computer's ability than an application with the same exact functionallity as Win7. Licencing and use may not be the same, but they are inseperable. There is always a licence to agree to as a prerequisite to use. Now, whether or not you stick to the terms of the licence is on you. Now, all of your software can be run locally, if all you use is desktops or laptops. You have a choice that tablet users don't. But the point is that you do have an option. Your software doesn't have to be all local, if you don't want it to. Why do you think a microsoft account, which is all but required for win8 comes with 7gb of free cloud storage? Now, to prevent another misquote, I must again clarify. I said, "all but required." which is the same as saying, "almost, but not quite." Windows 8 will work without it, but there are certain features which require it. Office 2013 will be available as a local application. That's true. But there is a full cloud based option. Look up Microsoft office 365. Here's a link. http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/faqs.aspx I especially call your attention to the answer to the FAQ "What do I need to install. According to Microsoft, the answer is nothing. Read it for yourself on the official page. And what exactly did that Tom's hardware article say? Was it: Console software revenue is flat, floating between roughly $21 and $24 billion, yearly, while revenue generated by the PC gaming market balloons from $13 billion in 2008 to a projected $23-ish billion in 2015. Nvidia breaks it down even further, showing that the bulk of PC games revenue is coming from digital downloads... ? Yes... Yes, I think it had to be because I used copy/paste on the italicized bit. I'm a huge fan of the graph that shows that current platform sales are still higher than pc sales. This is despite the clear disadvantage that consoles have, with the PS3 being released in 2006, and xbox 360 in 2005. Just what turn do you think that chart is going to follow when the next generation of consoles comes out? The chart also visually represents the exodus to consoles that you're asking about. It's there. For years people have been buying more console games than pc games. The author talks aobut PC games being reduced to a single wire rack. Then there's this quote: Nvidia doesn't break down its data according to genre or service, but much of this newly-discovered cash is coming from the social gaming crowd, as well as from new business models. There's no denying that Facebook games like The Sims Social and micro-transactions in more "hardcore" titles like World of Tanks and League of Legends are pushing revenue streams and profit margins up for many developers and publishers... I wonder what this could mean. Maybe, that the games that are popular for PC's aren't really all that demanding. Facebook games. Hmmm. I wonder how demanding apps that don't even require a PC are. Now, a new low end laptop will run SL. But, referring to my original response, and the whole reason I got involved in this, a 4 year old laptop could end up struggling. It is owners of those machines that frequently catch the "Upgrade your machine or get out" flame. I really feel that someone needs to stick up for them. It's tiresome. Kwakkelde, you and I seem to disagree with just about everything the other has said on this thread, but I know you're right about people not needing to buy a new computer just for sl. That's why I'm so disgusted with reading it. I'm not only arguing here on the threads. I'm also experimenting with viewers, so that I can start a posst with serious advice for those who have slower machines. I will make upgrading a part of it, but I spent quite a bit of this week comparing viewers, turning features on and off, etc. But the laptop I'm doing the tests on is a midrange that's only 3 years old, so I don't know if my tests will go far enough. Now, a less resource hungry sl is slightly within the user's power. But improvement on LL's part wouldn't require an entire rewrite of the code, either. There are simple things they can do. they can turn off hte ability to upload things that are not maximized, such as textures that are a higher resolution than sl can display. They can impose a limit on the size of scripts. As time goes on, the newer, more efficient content will become more common than the old. It's not groundbreaking, but it'll be helpful. For those who's machines REALLY struggle, maybe allow as options some of the limitatiions that Lumiya has. While you can blame the computer manufacturers for all the cheap, handicapped computers out there, and even say that they now see the error of their ways, the fact remains that those machines are out there. And they're something that all software companies are going to have to deal with if they want to sell their product.

Gadget Portal wrote: The problem with your suggestion, as was just pointed out, is that making SL for mobile machines would be dumbing it down. I want upgrades to the platform to actually upgrade, not remove functionality because people don't want to accept that SL is comparable to 3D PC gaming technology. Get a gaming rig, or get a new hobby that doesn't require high end hardware. Imagine if you went to the Battlefield 3 forums, or the forums of any online game, and said "my computer isn't good enough, it can't run the game, please take features and graphics away from everyone else until I can run it on my toaster". This is the same thing. Context, yet again. Windows DESKTOPS are moving to a mobile STYLE ui. DESKTOP computing is more reliant on the cloud, due to the INFLUENCE of tablets. FEWER DESKTOP APPLICATIONS RESIDE ON THE LOCAL MACHINE. Want to play a Direct X game in Linux? Connect to a REMOTE SERVER. They exist. Want to play an XBOX game on an ARM DEVICE? Connect to a REMOTE SERVER. It works. It's being done. Microsoft office 2013 will be available not only as a local application, but also as a SUBSCRIBTION SERVICE in which A SINGLE PURCHASE will licence MULTIPLE PRODUCTS on MULTIPLE ARCHETECTURES. Are you calling the largest software developers in the world wrong? Gamers have moved to platforms. Hmmm wonder why. Maybe because to them, buying high end video cards every single year is just a little too... ninety's. OPERATING SYSTEMS as well as OTHER SOFTWARE is TRENDING TOWARD EFFICIENCY. as is the latest X86 HARDWARE. The EXODUS OF HARDCORE GAMERS TO PLATFORMS SUCH AS XBOX AND PS3, combined with the INFLUENCE THAT MOBILE PROGRAMMING is having on DESKTOPS will cause the trend of LOWER HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS FOR MANY OF THE SAME FUNCTIONALLITY., EVEN IN DESKTOPS. Which will in turn cause FURTHER DEMAND FOR LOWER COST MACHINES. Now, does all the capitalizatioin make it clear that mobile platforms have a serious economic and technological impact on every computer, including desktops? Can you finally understand that is what I'm trying to say? They are no longer seperate, and the future will be that mobile and desktop computing will only grow closer? Now, it's perfectly okay for you to keep living a decade ago instead of looking at current and future trends. It won't hurt you. But LL is a corporation, so they don't have that luxury. FACT: Desktops are now the smallest and fastest shrinking segment of computing. Low end laptops are the largest and fastest growing. This leads to a stagnation in what technology is considered mosst common. FACT: Non-local software, which BEGAN with smartphones and tablets, has migrated to the desktop environment. FACT: The shrinking divide between ARM and x86 archetecture is driving the sales of low to midrange x86 machines, while the migration of gamers to machines that are less volatile is harming the sale of high end machines. Now, if I was to go to your Battlefield 3 forum asking, "How do I optimize my existing hardware so that I can keep playing." I'd probably get something better for an answer than getting the bashing that seems to invariably come with that question here. My point is, and always has been, that NOBODY NEEDS A LECTURE ABOUT UPGRADING THEIR MACHINE. It's as if deciding that when SL is the ONLY thing it can't do, it is most economically viable to wait until there is at least one other thing that they wish it would do better is somehow being called the less responsible decisiion. That's like saying up is down and left is right. And as time goes on, and people use low draw apps on.... you guessed it, THEIR DESKTOPS it will become more and mroe common for SL to be the ONLY thing that makes them unhappy. And most people will sooner just replace a program than a whole computer. BERATING THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE OTHERWISE SATISFIED WITH THERI COMPUTER, EVEN THE OTHER 3D GAMES THEY PLAY, WITH THE SOLE EXCEPTION OF SL WILL ONLY MAKE THEM MORE UNHAPPY WITH SL. It's a simple concept. It really is. Furthermore, the only way that sl will be even remotely close to 3d gaming technology is if, just as developers of 3d gaming technology have done, they optimize their software. If it makes it to that level, then the only way to stay there is to do as they do, and look to the future, not the past.

Do the same with all your other drivers while you're at it. windows is known to have driver issues on it's even numbered os's. And just like you're seeing with video, other drivers may be less than optimized since the upgrade too.

Your avatar will just be going to all those busy sl clubs without you. I'm kidding, but if the region your character was in before you logged off last time is down when you log back in, you just might think I'm serious. Anyone remember that? Logging off somewhere secluded and logging back in at a hub somewhere full of people because a region went offline for a while?

Look at everything you're wearing, and make sure none of it says anything in parenthesis hinting at a broken link or anything like that. detach and reattach the lsl bridge. See if either of those fix it. If not, then tryi detaching items one at a time. If that doesn't do it, then try all the standard tricks. Clear cache, etc. Wait for someone else to give some advice before resorting to the ldreaded character test. The fixes I mentioned used to work back in the Phoenix days. I haven't had that issue since I started using firestorm.

I quoted the person who I was responding to in that post. If my viewpoint seemed extreme in any way, it was to make a counterpoint. Maybe I missed the mark? What I was trying to say is that ignoring marketing trends, and the actions of the people who make the platform that sl runs on is a mistake. Some of the computers on sale now acrually have lower clock speeds than the ones they had years ago. Why? because the manufacturers of those machines are emphasizing portability. I'm not saying it's a good trend. But it's there. What I truly believe should happen, and what the rl computer market is doing are complete opposites. It would make more sense to me if while phones and laptops get closer in specs (which they are) that would lead to more desktop sales. My logic is that between phones getting smarter, and the existence of better "cloud" connectivity a person's main PC could in fact be LESS portable. The existence of tablets is particularly confusing. Same chipset as a phone, but it can't make calls or fit in your pocket. But, I admit, my logic is flawed. On a purely logical level, I can fully agree that a desktop is the way to go. But reality contradicts logic. Microsoft for some odd reason thinks that their "single user experience" should extend to desktops, including the touch screen ui, tablets are outselling everything, and the desktop is no longer considered the average household computer. For LL to make the chicken little's stop crying that the sky is falling, and to increase their revenues, the average computer needs to be capable of providing it's user iwth a pleasant sl experience. Like it or not, the trend is for machines that are built to pull from the cloud, from servers. Not machines that we're accustomed to that run programs locally. The mroe sl does serverside, and the less it does on people's local machines, the better it will be from both a marketing and a performance standpoint. As for mesh slowing down sl, I think that might be just for the Phoenix-Firestorm users. Firestorm is much more resource hungry than phoenix was, and the introduction of mesh marks the time when many, many people switched over. It took longer for the Phoenix viewer to adapt thatn the Firestorm viewer, led to rumors that Phoenix was going to die, the developers made the flexible gui in firestorm so it would look more the same, but it always was a "heavier" viewer. My experience in sl actually depends very much on what viewer I use, and how much "ground texture" there is. My computer hates fog and plants.. But generaly speaking, the lighter viewers took longer to adapt to mesh, and look way outdated now. And in my case, the connection isn't taxed any more than it was before. I actually did have to upgrade my ram, and now my stupid apu is the bottleneck. I probably should have been clear that it's the mesh enabled viewers that I blame. not mesh itself.

There are a lot of sims that seem to lack people. Maybe it's just at certain times. But if someone's logged in, they're somewhere. I guess the point is that the land that does exist in sl isn't by any stretch of the imagination "saturated." I'm curious now, though. How many sims may have "merged" as a way to increase traffic? How many have downsized to reduce costs? As for the mp, well, you can blame that on the inefficiency of inworld shopping. And the general attitude that everybody should be running a high end computer less than a year old even if nothing else they do taxes their resources the way that sl does.

Gadget Portal wrote: Just becuase the facebook generation is moving over to more mobile devices, that doesn't make it the end all, be all platform to develop on. SL is not a resource hog, compared to many games and graphics software. And speaking of... Ask gamers, graphic artists, architects, and other similar computer users, and they'll tell you that small and portable is retarded. No mobile technology that we have today or in development will ever beat a mouse, keyboard, and multiple large monitors for gaming or productivity. Unfortunately, SL falls into both of those categories, as far as technology is concerned. Riiight. So the cheap laptops that have far eclipsed the sales of those high powered professional rigs aren't what sl should be developing for. The most common machines out there are the ones that Second Life, of all things should be completelly ignoring. It would be much better if everybody just used professional level computers with graphics cards that cost as much as most full computers sold. That would be great. It really would. Except that development should be for the platforms that are out there. Oh, and everyone NEEDS multiple monitors for SECOND LIFE too! Reality is that for most of us, second life is, well, SECOND. And as for sl not being a resource hog, Adobe Creative Suite CS runs better on my machine. SL runs slower since the introduction of Mesh on my computer. But my phone, which "ignores" mesh in Lumiya, and has less than half the processor allows me to walk around much easier. Furthermore, had my comment about mobile devices been taken in context, OS developers are bringing mobile features to the desktop environment. Ubuntu is adding ARM support. Windows 8 has a mobile style ui, replaces "widgets" with mobile style apps, and is designed to "park" processes not in use so they dont use resources. Intel is focusing on processors that use less electricity (yes, even in desktops) to make use of the same clock speed. Not more, the same. This is all in preparation of ARM's quick development, quick increases in clock speed, and the fact that most ARM devices are subsidized, making thier bi-annual replacement more of a reality to the consumer. So as "retarded" as you think it is, it is set to have a massive effect on computing for the masses. Look, if you're doing professional work, then yeah. Get a professional computer. If you're a hardcore gamer, odds are you're playing a hardcore game, not second life. If you're asking "why does sl suck on my computer," then you're not looking for an answer like, "Upgrade the machine that does every single other thing you use it for well." You're looking for a way to bring the performance of sl to the level of other things you are doing.

I remember that memory leak! It's a thing of the past though. The OP said there's roughly 16 gb of ram in that machine. That computer, running correctly, should fly. I wonder if maybe sl's not making good "use" of the video card. There have been posts in other threads about sl just not seeing the card properly. There's not enough information in this thread for me to know if that's the case or not. But if only sl is giving the OP issues, it's something else to look into. I assume all other programs that are installed are behaving properly?