Charlotte Bartlett
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Posts posted by Charlotte Bartlett
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On 7/29/2020 at 12:56 PM, Cube Republic said:
We could do a whole post just on memories of Rezzable productions. I really enjoyed their content a lot and Light Waves was a bit of an Icon in second life too. I wonder if he's still around secretly.
Them plus Mescaline Tammas who did amazing videos - > (this one had Four Yip an also amazing artist in it)
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My old favorites from 2006 onwards were:
Maximum Minimum (Furniture)
Scope Cleaver (made me the Bartlett House - I think LL still have that somewhere!)
Curio Skins (Gala Phoenix) who sadly left SL after having a legal battle to protect her IP
Naughty - Sim - had all the stores for the skins, clothes etc
Starax (the amazing wand!)
Outy Banjo who made an amazing storm system
GNUbie Store where some of us put out free things for new users back in the day
I just found the pictures of the build from Scope too...
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We never found out whether they solved it!! I hope they did.
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On 7/23/2020 at 7:12 AM, Qie Niangao said:
Very interesting. Whole lotta lawyers on Lab's side:
I don't know how these M&A legal teams work, so what do I know? but it's not immediately obvious to me why they'd need a "debt partner" unless there's some leverage around here somewhere.
In M&A typically most investors do not hold enough cash to make a cash based purchase of the target company. So the investor will decide if to finance via debt or equity (or / and various combinations thereof). LL will have representation too in that area, as both parties are involved in the structuring of the deal and they are the recipient of the financing.
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Inflation has been quite expertly managed since the lock down worldwide. I suspect 239/240 is the bottom that Supply Linden will be comfortable with for the near future,
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On 7/22/2020 at 4:01 AM, Zzevir said:
Why there is no merch for Second Life by Linden Lab? Or maybe just I didn't came across it?
You know what I mean the t-shirt and key chain stuff.
I have a Linden Lab Cube! I think from 2007 from their party in Brighton UK. I think that was the start and end of Merch - I wish they would do more!!
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It is the banks fault as they forced the changes. PayPal then were over zealous in how they implemented and it is great news Tilia/LL brokered a reclassification back to purchase from transfer (peer to peer).
no banks should be doing this as a cash advance correctly with Tilia/LL... 💗
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1 hour ago, Grumpity Linden said:Hi All.Our legal team has successfully pushed back on PayPal changes which led to these transactions being classified as cash advances. We want to be very clear that this change in classification was not initiated by LL, nor did we benefit in any way from this. We have been assured that this should not occur going forward.We’re working with PayPal to see if there’s a way to make our users who were affected by this whole.
Now that's a great update! Thanks @Grumpity Linden
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If nothing else if anybody has this issue they may find this thread and see the summary here which will help going forward 💙
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42 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:
While I can sort of see the "cash advance" designation for buying L$, I cannot see how a game membership fee could possibly be viewed as a cash advance in any way. Likewise for tier payment, as that is also a game fee. IMO, at the very least, the Premium fees and Tier fees should be treated like any other purchase of online services.
Darn glad I switched my PayPal for LL over to being funding by my bank account many years ago.
That’s the thing it seems based on the info above it’s coded at MSB to MSB level versus granular transaction level. LL can’t control that. I am sure more examples will come up. I agree with you as I think all purchases of tokens, tier and premium should be purchases not peer to peer transfers. Who knows LL May read this and get the CFO to clarify.....
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36 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:
I'd like to see bitcoin go away. It's used too much fund the crooks. Think ransomwear. Hope they can find a work around...
My post above was a little financial joke....🥺
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57 minutes ago, RebeccaCourt said:
So to clarify and maybe summarise all of this (not holding out much hope for success though!):
(1) There has been a change made by LL either driven by some International ruling (I say this because I am impacted here in Australia also) or by LL themselves for whatever reason(s)
(2) Credit cards either directly accessed by LL ( set up in our accounts) or via PayPal are now attracting a variety of fees. In my case, GST (a sales tax), LL imposed transaction fee and a cash charge from our bank(s)
(3) Debit cards at this stage do not seem to attract a charge (time will tell).....
(4) In my case, I can now only transact without fee, using a debit card AND a minimum cost of AUD20, for purchase of Lindens
(5) To note: after numerous discussions with LL and PP, none of them admitted to any changes, only it was "my bank's issue/change"
Hope this helps and of course this is from an Aussie perspective only....
Good Summary - a few tweaks in addition
Root Cause:
- The change wasn't caused by LL / Tilia / Paypal or Skrill (Money Service Businesses "MSBs" )- but driven at industry level so all MSBs had to comply with how they "code" peer to peer MSBs transactions as a cash advance versus purchase.
Fees and Day 0 Interest may be charged:
If you use a Credit Card as your funding source in PayPal or Skrill when purchasing Linden Dollars, paying tier etc. The credit card companies globally, whom are taking advantage of this is, growing by the day.
Fees and Day 0 Interest currently will not be charged if:
Your funding source is your PayPal or Skrill Balance (when funded by debit card or bank account).
If you use a debit card directly with LL (personally I do not recommend this due to lack of two factor authentication).
Unsure on yet (untested):
If you link your credit card directly to Tilia bypassing PayPal and Skrill.
If you use a Charge Card (e.g. AMEX) as your funding source in Paypal, Skrill etc.
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43 minutes ago, RebeccaCourt said:
Oh dear, now my brain hurts also!
Can't I just buy a cute pair of heels from my favourite SL store without having an accounting degree and lugging around the International Tax Code volume 1 - oh, infinity...?!:)
LOL I know right!
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20 minutes ago, Anna Salyx said:
That they did, which is why the IRS clarified. Fortnight and similar are real money in, no real money out, as opposed Linden dollars being real money in, yes real money out. It is a convertible virtual currency under that specific definition: ie: convertible back to some real world currency a defined but variable exchange rate. And that is the specific clarification that the IRS made in their publication. I think that maybe the fact that is has a variable exchange rate in and out depending on "market" conditions just enhances that idea. But I do agree that calling the in world tokens 'dollars' while accurate does add confusion to the mix. there needs be more clarification in the tax code and publications. I don't have a CPA. I only file the 1040 long because I'm forced to by circumstance (head of household with dependent), otherwise I'd be filing 1040EZ and not worrying about any of this
I promise you it's not a convertible currency if you mean Linden Dollars under that definition because you are not converting ANY currency at any point in the transaction. (I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but it's based on the whole element of token definition). As I have said previously on these forums, does that definition stand up - right now it does based on FinCEN publications, will it stand up in the future.... I suspect not.
I'll bet you at least 50 Linden (wait what, now that is gambling so very much joking) but in all seriousness, Linden Dollars is not a virtual currency and you can read (if you really want your eyeballs to hurt) the significant and lengthy legal opinions on specific criteria. From opinions covering 31 CFR § 1010.100(m) and looking at from 2013 onwards when FinCEN first released detailed interpretative guidance on their definitions.
If you carrying a USD profit balance due to SL activity that warrants tax being paid, a CPA is something that is well worth the investment as things like the interpretations of the hugely complex regulatory market in the US are becoming incredibly difficult and that extra layer will give you some confidence you have filed correctly.
Now my own eyeballs hurts hah!
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21 minutes ago, DellaLaBella said:
@LittleMe Jewell It has happened twice so far...one charge was for tier and one for a monthly premium membership fee
Did both attract the cash advance treatment/fees? - I feel like we are on team Sherlock Payment Team here....
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27 minutes ago, Anna Salyx said:
I get what you are saying, however on form 1040 (which I file) (Schedule 1) for 2019 there was this:
"At any time during 2019, did you receive, sell, send, exchange or otherwise acquire any financial interest in any virtual currency?"
It threw me for a loop to be sure because it was a brand new thing that directly tied back to my activity in SL. Yes, I understand that by the IRS's only publications they are listed as property for calculations related to capital gains, but still, it is now at this time being required to at least report yes/no if you ever got any during the tax year, with the clarification that only those virtual currencies that can convert back out to real world currency need be included in the declaration. But the inclusion and wording of that declaration line leads me to believe that it's not going to be long before more detailed reporting may be on the horizon. again, must my take.
My receiving Linden Dollars and the subsequent spending of those same Linden Dollars for goods and services even if I never cash out can be a form of ... imputed income is the phrase that comes to mind, but I"m not sure if it's wholly accurate. But the crux is I'm getting goods (even if but virtual) that I would normally have paid real world dollars for. Since I have a regular Second Life income I never have to convert "real world" money into the system, but sans such income I'd (arguably) be spending that same equal real world cash value and so it can be construed that I have received that real world value of goods and that the virtual income is form of actual income that can be directly calculated. I'm not an expert by any means. this is just the understanding I have from casual reading and talking with people who *are* better educated on the subject. so it might my worry has less basis, but I'd rather try to get an understanding now rather than having a sudden unexpected kick later.
ps: ( and yes, I know my thresholds are waaaaaay below what would be a notice, but even so, if I have to start accounting for the virtual currency is going to be a pain. With luck it'll just remain a declaration and if my transactions through Tilia/Second Life never exceed the threshold that forces Linden Lab/Tilia to require a W-9 from me, it'll be just that, a check box I have to remember to tick every year. )
My CPA would have answered no to that. Simply put Linden Dollar Tokens are not a virtual currency using the specific definitions under FinCEN and IRS (remember how IRS then went all crazy over Fortnite then deleted it from their page in a fit of oh wait a sec). (I trade other currencies, so actually I answered yes to that question, but not related to SL).
I wish they didn't call them Linden Dollars - dollars scream currency so I can see why people confuse them.
Your CPA should refer to 3.1.1. Acquiring Virtual Tokens under the Tilia TOS etc but mainly how they word how you cash out in USD (it's a refund for your unused tokens regardless of whether you brought those said tokens from another player via the LINDEX).
That being said as posted in other long tax worthy threads on here with creators, CPAs from different creators treat things in different ways. Do I think the TOS of Tilia is tested to IRS and other regulatory levels (no but the tax laws in the US are not yet caught up with virtual "things"). And as we all know if the IRS can get their hands on more revenue by saying game tokens are now a form of currency it may happen in our future.
Most creators that I know with their CPA have their tax computed on the USD amounts transacted from the LINDEX (never the token side of things so gross amounts match the 1099 form as relevant.
One day we will get a definite statement on this - perhaps for our taxes next season!-
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38 minutes ago, RebeccaCourt said:
Hi all,
I did some testing last night and this is what I discovered and please note this is simply to buy lindens.
(1) I still cannot buy anything less than an amount of AUD20 (circa USD14) but refer point (5)
(2) I prefer to use PayPal as I believe it supplies me with another level of security (fingers crossed)
(3) I used my credit card via PP and this was charged with a "cash advance fee" (AUD20 min)
(4) I then used my debit card again via PP and so far, no fees have been added (I will let you know if they are, at a later date) but still with a AUD20 min)
(5) I then changed my LL account to using a debit card directly (not via PP) and this allowed me to buy in smaller amounts but with a transfer/transaction fee of about AUD$2.50
So, not sure if any of this helps but fingers crossed there is a legitimate workaround for this costly change deep in the bowels of WorldFinanceLand!
That's so helpful thanks Rebecca!
I also like using Paypal for that same reason. I also am leery of using a debit card directly with LL until they have two factor authentication in place. Due to potential of accounts being hacked and then large sums charged that don't have credit card protection.
It sounds like we have managed to properly define it so far. Now let's hope somebody can test when their premium payment or sim tier payment goes out to see what occurs.-
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13 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:
Per this below linked comment, it appears that LL did specifically change the coding from "video games" to "cash" -- the comment at least mentions specific codes. I can sort of see them doing that for L$ buys - though I don't think that they are legally required to - but I can't see them calling Premium fees or tier fees "cash". I am definitely interested in knowing for sure though.
Would make sense. as all MSBs had to make the changes across the industry, Venmo, Tilia, PayPal, Skrill etc etc all had to comply. I did a small test today I did a small transaction on Venmo and funded with a UK credit card to a US person. The UK Credit Card is pending and I spoke to the bank - sure enough... peer to peer. "cash advance". So this is going global. I really want to know too I hope it's just the Lindex part (that makes sense and seems to comply with the recoding requirement). Just interesting though as if defined as a "peer" transfer why just Lindex - and the whole definition of cash (and back to that FinCEN aspect rears it head). I find this very interesting and the complexity is going to just keep growing.
It's like peeling an onion though to nail down workarounds for this - basically don't fund with a credit card on a MSB if you can avoid it is the best advice right now.
We just need Tilia to now allow the purchase of Linden Dollar Tokens with BitCoin, that I purchased via a contracts for differences over the counter option, funded by my UK Venmo account which debited my US PayPal who used my French credit card to really make this fun 😅. I can't wait for this to happen (I am only half joking)...-
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You are sadly may be getting impacted by the "money transfer" reclassification that credit card companies forced PayPal etc to do - we thought just American Banks but sounds like the Aussies could now be in the mix too (or this is a total red herring!).
(a) you may wish to add a card directly to Second Life and bypass PayPal to see if that (i) reduces your fees and (ii) works around the money transfer classification issue. Will you let us know how you get on as a lot of us are interested in this particular topic atm!
(b) as mentioned above place cash into your PayPal before using the Lindex and switch your funding method on the agreement (pre-approved/reoccuring payments in PayPal) to fund from your balance first. I would recommend removing your credit card if you can and use your bank account directly. IF you are getting errors (having multiple alts using the same PayPal account may cause some challenges) delete ALL your approved PayPal funding agreements with Tilia/LL (in PayPal directly) and start afresh with one account using one PayPal account so it sets up a new funding agreement linked to your balance and bank and not a credit card.
Let us know what you manage to do and if you see more fees?-
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4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:
Were any of those charges that incurred the cash advance fee for Premium membership or Tier charges, or were they all for L$ purchases?
This is a really good point - I hope more people post once they check charges to narrow it. As if both are "powered" by Tilia and treated different it tells us Tilia is coding them that way (which they aren't being transparent on, nor is it included in their TOS how they treat each transaction - a compliance gap they need to close)....
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On 7/21/2020 at 10:09 AM, Anna Salyx said:
Since 2013, the U.S. Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, recognized Linden Money as a convertible centralized virtual currency for purposes of tracking for money laundering and other things (if I'm reading things correctly in a quick search). But it probably wasn't until Tilia came along as a registered money transfer service (subset of MSB, again if I'm reading it right), that this became something that is drawing the attention of banks and other institutions.
It might be related, also, to the fact that starting with the taxes I filed this year was the question about if I held any virtual currencies. The wording of the IRS description originally included pretty much all virtual currency tokens, but they clarified it to read: "We have changed the language in order to lessen any confusion. Transacting in virtual currencies as part of a game that do not leave the game environment (virtual currencies that are not convertible) would not require a taxpayer to indicate this on their tax return." While this is directly aimed at bitcon I'm sure but it does leave Linden Dollars still in that category of being required to be listed on the IRS tax forms since it is a convertible virtual currency. It might be this that is helping to drive the practice of considering L$ purchases as a cash advance.
Another would be that, while it would at a loss, I could buy 20 USD worth of Linden Dollars against my CC, turn around and immediately sell them back getting a USD balance that I then transfer to my bank account. Yes, I don't get the whole 20 back after fees and such, but it's functionally a cash advance that would bypass the cash advance flag on the credit card.
So, IMO I think there are a lot of little things going into the reasons why PayPal and some credit cards are changing how they classify the purchases of virtual convertible currencies. again, IMO I think it's mainly due to recent IRS changes. There is a very good article on the subject of virtual convertible currencies on Investopedia from March of 2018 that might be good reading for those interested.
Anyways, that's my quick take to add to the mix of conversation.
I think you may be confusing apple and oranges.
The FIN-2013-G001 (if that is what you are referring to) rule has nothing to do with the fact banks have changed how they view MSB transactions and who forced MSBs to recode certain types of transactions to allow them to ID them as cash advances to they could charge more interest and fees. This is all about credit cards/bank fighting back against MSB Apps people are using to move money to take their slice of the pie. Same with the IRS aspects that doesn't impact this particular problem.
As a side note FinCEN has not recognized Linden Dollars (a game token) as a convertible centralized virtual currency (at this point in time). There was a poorly written "opinion" blog piece in 2013, that was then repeated (ouch) in Investopedia by James Chen who copy and pasted parts of a blog post from 2013 without doing [any] research in 2018 - lazy stuff that he should have long since corrected but hasn't. I posted about that piece previously and the issues with it.
The OP issue is nothing to do with the FinCEN, IRS etc, albeit those are all interesting subjects and are kind of connected when you think Tilia now acts as a MSB to ensure they meet US regulatory requirements. (as a piece of history LL was the registered MSB before they split out Tilia - so the classification hasn't changed just the company name/structure).
The issue remains here that Tilia (MSB) - > PayPal (MSB) is now classified as a transfer (or peer to peer payment) in some of the examples above due to market changes I have mentioned above. So once it reaches - > Credit Card company they apply the new methodology to maximize their fees and charges accordingly as a cash advance. It's not going to change and will only expand further, so the workaround is hopefully for users to go Tilia - > Credit Card company to cut out the MSB -> MSB part and remain classified as a purchase versus transfer (hopefully albeit I suspect that's on the radar too for the future if banks have their way).-
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6 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:
That said "including", which means "this may not be a complete list of all 'cash equivalents'". The CC company may reason that $L are used to buy stuff, so they're a "cash equivalent". Especially since you CAN use actual money to buy Marketplace stuff, too.
That's not how Credit Card Company Cash Advances categorize purchases on a service. It's not about reason, but categorization. What is more interesting here is how PayPal are treating Tilia now it's becoming fully fledged and how more importunely once a standard is set how regulators may view it (Finra etc).... Including you are right, but Credit Card companies do not recognize (yet) Linden Dollars as a cash instrument. But they are surely recognizing Tilia as a MSB....
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Not sure how that would help at all....somebody somewhere in that supply chain is classifying transactions from Tilia - > PayPal - > Credit Card as a Cash Advance. Resetting PayPal does nothing at all. I suspect it's PayPal based on the information Tilia is providing and perhaps how PayPal is classifying Tilia as a MSB (like those Venmo examples in the New York Time's piece).
Here is an example of a bank credit card agreement... I checked mine
"A cash advance
is a charge to get cash or cash equivalents,
including travelers cheques, gift cheques, foreign currency, money orders, casino gaming chips, race track wagers or similar offline and online betting transactions. "
Linden Dollars are not any of those, unless banks are now actually saying Casino Gaming Chips are Linden Dollars (if so, that's a whole different ballgame - no pun intended). Linden Dollars have never been a cash equivalent... -
Now I am all nostalgic.... some old prim things I made!
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Lost gacha items - anything I can do?
in General Discussion Forum
Posted
Glad you found it - if you buy gacha again directly from creators - some of us exchange them for Mod / Copy versions so you may want to check with the creator of yours to see if they offer that service - much safer for homes and furniture to be mod/copy! ❤️
ps thanks @FairreLilette for the recommendation! ❤️