Chic Aeon

arton Rotaru wrote: :matte-motes-little-laugh: Besides telling everyone to up their LOD settings, they advertise their models as highly detailed with super low land impact as well. In such cases I do label it as abusive. :matte-motes-smitten: LOL. That gave me a laugh. Actually the things that I see with horrible LODs are mostly smallish home and garden furniture type items -- which really can almost always use the same LOD as the highest setting -- at least if the original model was low poly. And as Drongel said SIZE does make a big difference. I just added some high LOD houses, putting both in the vendor now (did not replace). Even on a small house which HAD been broken up into several pieces, the land impact doubled from 37 to 72 or something like that. It seems like ONLY making the 72 long distance viewing house would be just as "wrong" as only making a 12 land impact version which could only be seen reasonably with LOD 4 set. If someone is in a skybox or one of the ubiquitous blue balls there is no need for any long distance viewing so that would simply be a waste of primmage. If creators turned down their LOD settings to 2 (or less) they would see the world a lot differently. Actually I think many of them have. I don't think there is a perfect answer that will work for all solutions, but whatever creators do when they upload (even if they just use the default settings - cringe) -- they should TEST to see what things look like at lower LOD settings. I once had a well-known fancy house creator tell me to turn my LOD settings up to 20 ( I don't think you can do that any more) because I wasn't seeing all he had created. This was a blogging event. I replied that I refused to turn my LOD past 4 as that was the "high" setting for most people who had raised their setting. End of story. Edit: If anyone else is having constant issues with spellcheck. I just discovered that posting and then checking again get's things working as they should.

Agree that was my mistake on the GCG land quote. There US conversion rate never actually worked for me (in US) though. Fees and such pretty much ate it up or maybe Paypal used a different conversion rate. Edit: I guess I should add that the last time I logged in there a group message said that rates were going up AGAIN . Didn't say what to. Agreed that there is TONS of empty mainland. So far as the money conversion goes I can only speak to the last few month. I have started converting money in 100,000 linden hunks as I am SO not good in money conversion in any country . Cashing out has been going up for me, just a few dollars. But I may have just caught it at the right time. So no real comment there. I don't buy lindens so have no clue on that end of things. I can only say that my business has been much better than normal the last few days mostly with skybox or skybox with buildings sales but with other items also. So increase in sales (at least on the Marketplace) will help The Lab's coffers. I think this was a smart move. I had mentioned actions like this years ago to perk up mainland. I am not sure that folks will be doing the premium member bit although it was obvious that was part of the hope and plan. But for those owning or renting mainland it is a nice bonus. Eventually when private lands get there "prim" increase things will likely sway in their direction. I have always been on mainland because of the savings which helps my bottom line .

According to the release video Patch Linden said that homesteads and all private lands would increase by 33%. AND that down the road (he mentioned three months I think but no promises) people would have the OPTION of changing to 30,000 prims for $30 fee and $30 a month extra tier. There have been other reports of double prim lots (some on mainland) so it is possible (I certainly don't KNOW this) that they are testing the capabilites on a few folks to see the viability. That came to mind because my local ISP used me as a tester (often without my knowledge) as they knew I wa actively on the computer most of the day. If LOT of folks start reporting instances then that will be something else. According to the video private lands weren't supposed to get upgrades for quite awhile -- during the mainland test period.

Linden Homes were apparently introduced at the end of 2009 so yes they are definitely older and not mesh. This is the post I did on their introduction WAY back then LOL. Blogs archives are a great fast way to look up really old stuff. Doesn't SEEM like that long ago. http://chicatphilsplace.blogspot.com/2009/12/androgyne.html

I am going to respond to this simply because it is so filled with incorrect information. Firstly there was a time where there wasn't enough mainland to go around, many years when 512 waterfront lots sold for 20,000 linden (had some - sold some). Great Canadian Grid ($5 when I was there) is now $25 per region. Homesteads DO get a bonus. They will be 5,000 prims instead of 3,750. The quotes from Ebbe on how much money SL produced for Linden Lab last year (I don't remember the numbers but they were NOT SMALL and are financing Sansar in part) shows that it is still very viable platform and producing income for The Lab as well as plenty of content creators. I can say from the number of surrounds that I sold today (not full sim but smaller sizes of various dimensions) that a bunch of folks seem to be using their prim bonuses up in the sky to make new areas. Will that LOOK like mainland is revived? Maybe not, but people are investing in goods so that is a start.

Devriv wrote: One quick note on indoor and outdoor mesh. There can be strong arguments against it I’m sure, but I think where an object is assumed to be rezzed is irrelevant, that all or nearly all objects should be ready for use outdoors. Why do I say this? Because I see “indoor” mesh objects that come apart when viewed from across the room they are placed in. A mesh object may be made for indoors, but not every room is 7x7meters! I do agree and I, personally, try to be good about indoor items *wink*. I cam WAY out and see where things fall apart. If it will work in a venue event, then it should work in most every house in SL. There are no doubt exceptions to that but I am thinking that the folks with those GIGANTIC hoomes (like a quarter of a sim) probably are running at LOD4 anyway . I could be wrong there of course. There is a balance and that was stressed to me in comments when I was new to mesh making. I don't remember who it was, not Drongle or Aquila as those guys I would remember -- but someone said just because you CAN make the (vase) at full LOD for the top three settings and still come in at 1 impact, there is no reason to do that. If all objects are set at longer LODs than necessary then that is too much stress on the server. I think that is pretty wise advice. You really don't need to see a pot full of flowers from 64 meters away LOL. So in general my idea of inside and outside encompasses that advice. I fully support each creator to decide what is correct for themself and for their customer base. There are a few very popular H and G designers that only design for the LOD4 crowd. It works for them. Some folks are still making prim items and those will work for the lower powered citizens certainly. There is no one perfect answer IMHO.

Yes in general anyway. Not sure about that exact product. OK I looked up that particular tree and it is only partial mesh (the trunk no doubt) so this isn't a good example. Let's take another one -- one that I am going to do maybe tomorrow. I made some filler buildings a couple of years ago. They are very low land impact (the ones without stairs that is) and they work fine in some situations. But at LOD 2 they have to "rez in" meaning the shape doesn't come on clearly right away. So I am going to make HIGHER LOD buidings for those that need longer distances. These are all out on display so I am not feeling guilty or anything . The folks that buy them apparently can tell they will work. All I have to do is find the file on my computer and upload making sure that the further distance LODs are high enough for good long distance viewing. If my first test works, that takes maybe three minutes. If not another try and another three minutes. Once I get the high LOD model, all I need to do is unpack the ones I have at the shop, rez them and copy over the textures to the appropriate places. It is a pack so there are quite a few of them, but really shouldn't take a lot of time. Would have been LESS of course if I did it all at the same time --- but who knew?!?!?!? Again, I only think this is important in some situations -- mostly outdoor items. So -- ONE upload (if it is a single mesh) at a cost of $11 most of the time -- for me anyway. Hope that helps explain. Edit: Well of course it wasn't THAT easy. Finding a 2014 file is tricky for me. Finally got the RIGHT one. Then the texture on the buildings were part of that big loss of textures (my **buildings folder) from the nasty database grimlin. Happily my friend made those textures so she sent me copies (whew). I also (of course) found something that I felt I needed to change as it would be better, so did that. AND Blender 2.78A crashed along the way NOT leaving a backup file or a recovery file. It took me back to yesterday's work. All odd. But it COULD have been that simple LOL/ The new ones are 15 LI instead of 3 but you can see them all the way across the sim and further; there was no middle point unfortunately as they were VERY simple to start with.

LOL. I pretty much agree with all of that except that --- Even though I have a fairly new and pretty smoking desktop and can run lots of programs all at once and multiple avatars I turned down my LODs to 2 last year. And my computer -- hefty as it is -- seems thrilled . Also it is a personal reminder to keep aware. I have a few personal items that are LOD disasters, but not many. And I am much more warry of blogging said items. I know there is a buyer beware thing going on but I would like to applaud the folks doing it "right" and not the other way around. And no, I don't see a lot of changes happening. I too -- as a consumer, not a creator -- feel like the folks at LOD 1 really just need better machines, and that likely much of the world does look bad. I don't feel that I need to give up my details because they don't have good hardware. Selfish? A bit. I suspect many designers are split with their alliances -- go with style or be practical. I pretty much split the difference in a compromising manner.

Nalytha wrote: ((General Reply)) But I've also learned that making the higher LOD stuff takes significant time which is why I assume this isn't popular. I can't see where the code is picking up the italics OR get it off so I am going to put MY reply in bold. I am not really sure why someone told you that or what they are getting at. Trying to wrap my head around it. IF you make more complex items (like adding bolts and other small details) then yes, it would take a bit more time. But in general that is only a small part of the process. A good model will most often be something with a reasonable amount of detail but not with so much that the uploader will choke (metaphorically of course). That tends to happen mostly with clothing where folks have become entranced with ruffles and stuff and made things SUPER smooth where they really don't need to be. Many of the differences happen in the upload process. Whether someone makes their own LOD models or uses the uploader wisely (AND TESTS), it comes down to choices. IF someone is actually testing their models (obviously not everyone is) then there is still the question of "how far" you want folks to see that tree. Do they need to see it from half way across the sim? or a couple of blocks away? There is not real CORRECT answer because each person using an item will be using it in a different way. Someone in a tiny skybox isn't going to NEED great Long Distance Viewing even at a low LOD setting. They can't get far enough away to cause and issue --- unless of course it has REALLY been made pourly *wink*. That same object (let's call it a plant in a pottery jug) might go outside on a sim where there IS the ability to view it at a long distance. I think you are right about having high and low LOD models on some things (other things like general furniture not so much). I have two things now that I think on it that I am going to make high LOD models of. That only means that I need to upload them again at -- let's call it stronger -- settings. One I will need to take apart and add the parts that are problematic, but that's not a huge thing. There is of course a COST involved in higher LOD goods -- on larger itmes mostly. If you can remember the reason given behind the "harder to make high LOD settings" idea I would be very interested to know. Thanks for being a good citizen! *wink* PS. Venues (events) are a great place to shop for good LODs because most are vast and items are out and can be seen from long distances. Sometimes in shops, that isn't the case -- even when there are demos. Happily I rarely see any faulty LOD items in the venues I am in. Now and then sure, but the BUYERS also get to see that! Edit: I think I figure out the 'harder' part of your comment. If people make CUSTOM LODS for their models (the very best method if you are good at it) then yes, it takes more time. BUT even if creators simply use the uploader more carefully and not just accept the default setting (which in my experience really only work well on certain simple and large models) they could make better LODS -- often with no land impact changes. They just need to be aware and test their models at different lod settings. That really doesn't take all that much time.

Some folks benefiting from extra prims are already -- well complaining is really too nice a word but I'll go with that. It definitely makes me sigh. BUT, along with the bounty which I am thrilled over comes some veiled suggestions from The Lab. Will content creators embrace those suggestions ? Time will let us know that answer. I think there are a few faulty premises to the "more prims - better LODs" equation (see this video and Patch Linden if you missed it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZr6VwBDlVg , the biggest being that many folks with powerful machines and using up to LOD4 don't care at all about LODs as they see everything beautifully including some items that break apart from two meters away on LOD setting 2. Are they going to opt into buying items that are higher land impact for the good of the grid? Some will. Just like some people in real life buy organic, support wind power electricity and drive old cars that still get good gas mileage. Sadly I don't think the thinking of the future folks' numbers are all that high. As content creators we have always had a choice on how we upload our models. Do we want 1 land impact beds with pillows? After all, the folks using said beds will likely not be looking in from a distance and MORE than likely not be all that interested in the pillows. If we go the virtuous route and design for LOD1 on an old tablet, are we limiting our sales, hence our revenue and possibly killing our business leading to our journey out the virtual door? While I agree that the suggestion to look at our uploading methods and LODS is a good one, I am wondering how many content creators are going to change their methods. I have been designing for LOD 2 (sometimes lower but not always) for at least a year. I typically make fairly low poly mesh anyway so this isn't really a chore. I really don't plan on making any changes other than uploading some new walls on one older mesh building giving folks a CHOICE of high or low LODS. I am certainly not a model of perfection in the LOD area. Somewhere between "ohmygoditisgorgeous--whydoesitdisappearwhenIwalkaway" to "man I can see that mushroom all the way across the sim but it pretty ugly close up". That is MY comfort level. Should anyone want to chime in, I would be interested in any changes on the horizon that might appear in their uploading strategy. Here are a couple of examples. Just shots of my building pad. No fancy lights. Taken from aways away --and my thinking. Not trying to pull anyone into my camp, I just think it is an interesting philosophical question. I already know some of your positions of course :D.  This is a set I completed today for an advent event in December. I am definitely farther away than I would be within a normal house. The tree which could go outside can be seen in its complete shape from farther away. The tall shelves have the least holding power, but are good up to this distance.  Further out most of the furniture has disappeared but logically we don't need to SEE furniture at this distance - LOL. The house on the left uploaded a week or so ago has stellar LODs and can be seen clearly much further away than this shot. The roof by the way IS curved with a flat roof in front so that isn't the roofline breaking up *wink*. The skybox windows break up about here. The pretty complex house is 83 land impact (the siding is REALLY siding and there are interior additions that you can't see). Edit: I forgot that the house on the left is actually SIZED DOWN to fit in an event pad area so it is much smaller than it would be for use. The model HERE (smaller) is only 34 li. The skybox is 4 with perfect physics and a gorgeous bake (thank you Blender 2.78 which has made BIG strides over 2.75 in baking). I could have uploaded with better window trim LODs but the person inside the skybox will never see them at that distance and most of us aren't trying to impress our sky neighbors. Just kinda felt like putting my thoughts down on paper. I don't believe the whole LOD issue is about prim savings. That is certainly part of it. But some designers have I li items that could EASILY have been uploaded using the sliders (no custom LODS) so that they could be seen further than a few feet away. The download number is like .2. I can only assume they just use the default uploader settings and have their own LODs setting at 4. It is particularly disconcerting to see our HAIR disappear at a short distance away LOL. Someone wrote here on that today I think and I have had a few hairs that preformed said feat. I did not feature them on my blog (smile). At Cloud Party you were only allowed so many models with long distance LODs so you had to THINK about what you wanted to be seen far away and also make choices. We don't have to do that here and so that leads to items that might be too heavy or items that disappear in the blink of an idea. Happily I do believe that more folks are paying attention these days. I certainly am. Spell check not working so if Google didn't catch it, forgive me please.

You need to make the texture NEW at 100 or 200 or whatever pixels. If you are trying to make a new texture from your 72 bit one I am pretty sure you will not see an improvement. You can't add pixels after the fact. That is like trying to take a thumbnail profile picture and turn it into something grand. So if you can find the original photo that is BIG you should be able to resize at a higher resolution. I suggest some sort of sharpening after you resize down as you will automatically get some blur from the rearrangement (and loss) of pixels. I have full sim surrounds that are 256 x 64 meters using a 512. 1024 texture and have never had this complaint from anyone, so it isn't something that happens all the time. Good luck. Edit: Sometimes (not often at all these days like once in a couple of years) you can have a texture degrade in the database. I don't think that is your issue as it is obvious on the texture itself. I just mentioned it as I had one do that today. All blurry and weird. Colors still OK but certainly not usable. Happily it was recent and not too hard to find and upload again. For something 256 x 256 you will want a 1024 AND a tiling one. If you try and stretch a 1024 texture 256 meters --- well it isn't pretty. IF that is what you are trying to do, I don't see how you can get it to work well. I can't really see your photos well on my monitor so hard for me to get the details .

General message to ALL, not Pamela Some people if gifted a million dollars with no strings and no taxes due would still complain. Just saying this gets BORING! Going back to work.

The problem is that there are already tons of lovely recreational (not commercial) sims. This is a GOOD thing. But even many of the folks that have their own sims and do sell things are actually paying for sims in part from real life income. I agree. Just enjoy yourself -- and you can do that with a much smaller piece of land than a full sim. So less expense. If you want lots of wide open spaces for almost no money, then maybe Opensim is what you need (not being facious here - OS works well for plenty of folks).

If you are using Firestorm you can change the LOD settings easily within the Quick Preferences Panel. If you are using the Linden viewer then I believe the LOD default is 1.25 ish which IS pretty low. If your LOD is 2 or better you should be able to see most things at a good distance IF THEY WERE MADE CORRECTLY (we are taling mesh here).  Here is what you are looking for in the debug settings. Note that they higher you set your LOD viewing the harder it is on your system, so test a bit. If you can't see your clothes and such at 2 then maybe some new clothes and hair are in order .  I have seen some hair break apart at 2, but not any clothes. That isn't saying it can't happen.

Rey323 Restless wrote: many of us choose private so that way we are able to do things such as terraform, parcel, our own restarts and not have the lag off of other sims. Exactly. Private lands will still have those abilities -- the ones that you opted into. Even if islands do not get the prim boost (I am personally doubting that as Inara's post that came down thanked two Lindens ), it was a choice. I have pretty much opted for mainland except for a few times in Winterfell. It has its issues although lag doesn't seem to be one of them these days. Most of them can be worked around -- although I do get the blue ball bit. I have lands abutting those in two places . Thank goodness for Trompe Loeil's old but still gorgeous sky bubbles LOL. So we still have choices no matter what happens. And so far as the OP, I would hope that rental prices don't go up. I am not willing to pay much more for my land than I am paying now and would likely move to smaller quarters. I can move those 3000 prims in a day as I always keep backups, but it is NOT fun . So would just as soon stay where I am. Since everyone is getting more prims I can't see how raising rent will help landlords. Likely folks would just buy. I am renting because it has been cheaper than buying mainland and paying tier.

Well reread Chin's post a bit above. That could of course be an error but it does leave me wondering a bit. . My land are all at plus 50% now. All mainland.

LOL. Well I WOULD but the article has been pulled. https://modemworld.me/2016/11/02/publishing-error/ Since this is a very reputable author very connected to The Lab, I think we can consider it correct though. My lots on mainland have all been given there bonus. So we know what's happening there. I didn't take a screenshot of the article but it did reference and thank Lindens , so it seems like it was slated for tomorrow and got published ahead of schedule (I have done that - not difficult) . But just reading Chin Rey's comments she may have had misinformation - or - the plan may have changed midstream. I went to the sims with double prims but they are all cut up in odd sizes so it is pretty impossible (if you didn't live there and know what you SHOULD have) to verify LOL. We can wait and see. At one point a Linden did "seem to confirm" the double prim thing. However, I have found that historically what has been planned and the final result are not always the same.

Just adding to this thread that it is official now. Mainland 1.5 prims (22,500 per sim) Private islands 1.33 (20,000 per sim) Homesteads 1.33 (5000 per sim) Linden Homes 1.5 175 prims + home

Asking in the land forums might be your best avenue. There are still plenty out there and many of the land owners read the land forums .

 Obviously not really replying to Caleb here . My other two mainland (group) lots are inaccessible at the moment and trying to teleport there logs me out. But that's my store as of this noonish. So looks like 1.5ish doing the math in my head. I think this will definitely help H and G folks (woot) AND I have always been a mainland gal *wink* so works for me in many ways. I have been saying more prims for mainland for years now -- it just seemed like such a logical move. So happy to see it has happened.

A quick click tells me that the sim in now the MEVA store

I haven't reset my password for myself of my alt in for-e-ver so resetting is not a requirement. She was over there this morning several times just fine. Does it say your password is incorrect? Or another error message. You might try logging into Mesh Sandbox 3 ---- BUT AS I checked that she is there but the map isn't working or search on the map OR copy to clipboard etc. SO it may just be a temporary issue. Give it a few and try again and if it still isn't working you might want to file a ticket? Edit: She is the ONLY one in the four mesh sandbox grids. While not terribly unusual (not much going on there lately) it does sort of suggest something might be amiss .

Thanks and I'll look at that but wouldn't that mess with the Materials view too? And it is fine. Probably just something odd in 2.78. And yes, I knew there was a new version out but "in general" I am doing OK and I so hate installing and setting up. I will face that soon though I guess as there seem to be a fair amount of odd and repeating issues that don't SEEM to be "me" . Just being picky I guess. Thanks for the thoughts!

I thought I had all my settings the same but the solid view in the viewport in 2.78 seems way darker than it should be -- compared to 2.75 which I was using before. I most ofen use materials view but still would like to know what I need to change to get solid view lighter. RENDER view is accurate as it was in 2.75. Hints appreciated. 

If you can figure out who owns the site or who the webhosting provider is, you could contact them and simply report it (phone works quite well and be sure and stress that you have all the active files yadayada including the ones (hopefully) that you used while making and kept for backups). Doesn't sound like talking the folks that RUN the website will help much if indeed they are promoting. IF the host provider is in the US or Canada (or maybe some European countries IDK) it is very unlikely that they want their web hosting business linked to something as illegal as it sounds. If the sight is hosted in russia or one of the other countries who don't seem to care at all -- well then you are just out of luck. Sorry.