Mainland Revamp

[Knowl Paine]

I've seen entire Regions abandoned, because of a 16sqm plot in the center, set for sale at an extremely high price. This price fixing is morally corrupt, and harms SL. 

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

I like a limited scale version of the east river model as the method of zoning.

Take 30 sims of mainland, and put resident empowered covenants on it - where the residents of a sim gain some powers to enforce builds the majority approve of.

See what happens.

Offer anyone in those spots a free transfer out, and anyone outside of them a free transfer in. PLENTY of land now that's abandoned that could be used to handle this switch aroun

Give them some basic powers like:

- Majority vote to remove prims.

- Must own X% to be able to vote.

- No one can have more than 40% of the voting power.

- Landowners in sim have 24 hours right of refusal on any land sale, followed by landowners in an adjacent sim for 24 hours.

- Minimum and Maximum Prices for land sales can be voted on (This might sound like price fixing, and I'm sure rampant neo-cons will call it socialism / technocommunism, but it's just regulation to prevent bot-invasions or extortionary sales).

--- All of the above would require heavy refinement. There are likely flaws in those ideas.

 

The point is to try it on a small scale, then refine it, adjust it, and once perfected, move it up to perhaps the size of one continent.

- Given my blog today, where I looked at the numbers and show the mainland is more profitable for LLs than estate land:

http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/mainland-versus-estate-which-is-the-better-bang-for-your-buck-to-linden-lab/

- something like this to make mainland more appealing would be wise. But it also needs to be LIMITED - because while some of us severely want this, others want none of it.

There is no reason mainland can't meet both needs.

 

[Indigo Mertel]

Elected officials? This is not what I suggest, iSkye. I suggest self-regulated communities, thus it is up to the people who get together to form a community to decide what model of governance they want to adopt.

In our case we have no elected officials, all those who own at least 4,096 sqm of land can be members of our steering committee and all members have equal rights despite the amount of land they own. Our model is made so to keep the red tape low and avoid possible conflicts, and elections would add a level of complexity we don't wish to have. In our case, it's working. However, each community should be free to set its own governing rules.

[Indigo Mertel]

Knowl, what you suggest involves management and resources from the Lab. Saying that AR would be sufficient is wishful thinking. As Qie rightly points out, Lindens do not follow through even on their own set rules, such as the ban on micro parcels, let alone when land scams are reported to them. And how long did it take for the Lab to come to the conclusion that micro parcels had to be banned, after years of complaints from residents? And even when the Lindens do take action, does it really resolve the problem? No, because what they leave behind is a mass of abandoned land that in most cases nobody claims and merge into larger parcels.

Now, take the case of our community and see how we deal with it. We actively pursue every opportunity to claim and aggregate land in our area because we have a vested interest in keeping our area cohesive and clean. We either purchase land from people who want to sell or file a ticket to the Lab to claim abandoned land. Neighbors know what we do, so they often offer their land for sale because they appreciate our work.

We don't force people to leave based on some zoning rules set by the Lab or by us. We self-regulate by applying what we consider the best solution for our needs in the area we control, period. Zoning has the disadvantage of creating uniform areas, while some good mixing is the best way to go. I agree with what someone said in this thread, residential areas with some light commerce makes a more interesting area, and that is what we do. It's called community.

When you say "all the Residents who want Pink buildings, search each other out, form groups, make notices and place AD's in order to get their own Region" is not that far from what I suggest. Let people decide what is best for them and offer incentives to form communities. There are many examples of themed and not-themed communities on Mainland and they all are positive examples of cohesive self-regulated land management.

What I suggest is not forcing one model on everyone. I believe that forcing a zoning model or a community model on a reality as vast as Mainland would be really disruptive and counter-productive.Equally bad is having zoning in one continent rather than others because it would create an uneven land market.

What I suggest is to offer good reasons to people so that joining a community is an advantage to them. Want to have land in a Gorean community? Join one. Want to be part of a commercial district? Join one. Are you the gun toting keep-out-of-my-backyard type? Then, don't join anyone and stay on your own.

Our community started with less than one region, it expanded to about 6 regions and it's still expanding. Land has value in our area, chaos starts at our borders. :matte-motes-grin:

[Indigo Mertel]

I really liked your post on Mainland versus Estate. Interesting and thought provoking. I shared the link on my stream yesterday with a recommendation to read it.

[Marigold Devin]

---

Indigo Mertel wrote:

I am one of those people who actively worked to clean up and beautify the corner of Mainland where I live. For the past 4+ years I have worked hard and spent tons of money to consolidate land, remove ugly builds, merge micro-parcels. I have been following this thread with interest because I have invested a lot into Mainland.

IMO,

though zoning could bring some apparent benefits I don't think it's a viable solution.

I'd like to suggest a different solution.

April 28th 2008, founding day of the East River Community. We started with 1/2 a region.

In 2008, I and a few friends founded the East River Community.

I believe our community is based on a model that may work on a larger scale to improve Mainland.

Today the ERC is a federation of groups with a

common charter and a steering committee

. Candidates (groups or individuals) who want to be part of the federation must comply to some requirements set in the charter.

Our goal is to create a positive, friendly environment and a cohesive ambient, preserving our area from the uglyness so diffused on Mainland. We have a set of rules to regulate the relations of land owners but our charter is also made as to keep the red tape as low as possible.

Though we don't actively pursue affiliations of new members (but we welcome new ones), our model is working pretty well and those who know our community agree it is one of those gems that can be occasionally found on Mainland.

Map of the ERC, August 2010. The community is a lot larger now, spanning about 6 regions... but our cartographer is a bit lazy... :matte-motes-asleep-2:

In my opinion

this is a model that Linden Lab should encourage

. Rather than forcing zoning on everyone and forcing lots of people to adapt -- while at the same time forcing Linden Lab to police zoned areas -- I believe it would be more productive to encourage people to form self-regulated communities.

Linden Lab should only set some basic rules (land preservation being one) and offer incentives to encourage people to aggregate (say, a discount on land tier, better land management tools, etc.). Communities such as ERC offer a good environment, better land value and automatic zoning. They are autonomous, self-regulated and run by enthusiast people who invest work and money into the community. Committed people who take the wealth of the community at heart.

Muirhead Village at night.

Anything forced from above on a reality as complex as Mainland, and Second Life in general, is bound to fail and make lots of people angry. The best solution, imo, is to encourage people to aggregate and form self-regulated communities based on some common values.

 

---

 

This is what LL would hope that we would do. Govern ourselves, and make the mainland pleasant to live in. I enjoyed reading your post enormously, and looking at the photos. It's very heartening.

While it might not be everyone's cup of tea to be governed or have such a closely-knit feeling, for some people it works well like that, just like in real life some areas have a very successful neighbourhood watch scheme (or neighbour-watch-each-other scheme as my brother calls it in his area).

I live very independently, on a small chunk of a very landlocked sim.  For some reason, the people who have purchased land on the sim have tended to bunch up very close to me, but we rarely see each other, and I like that.  It feels a bit like a holiday caravan park, where everyone's accommodation is slightly different and quirky, someone will bring a fountain or a flamingo for decoration, a couple of people keep pets, but the sim I am on is not unpleasant, except for the vast stretches of abandoned land that have never been turned around for auction or put up for sale.

The group I am in that works towards making mainland a tidier and more pleasant place to be doesn't have a cluster of sims as yours does, and works in a different, but effective way. 

I just feel no one of us can fix the world, but if we all make our own bit pleasant (real and virtual), we can all enjoy the benefits of that. 

 



[Marigold Devin]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

Whether there's an opportunity to spur better Mainland development top-down through market force incentives or something like "zoning" or bottom-up through community formation, it will not matter if Linden Lab doesn't follow through.

And things will continue to get worse on the Mainland if Linden Lab keeps introducing new things that actively undo what little they've been willing to do to date.

Here's an example:

How do you get a mess like this?  Two simple steps:  First, install a simplistic script that automatically sets parcels for sale after abandonment without any awareness of what it's just done in the vicinity. Second, fail to enforce the rules, including landsplitting, that were introduced to mitigate the violence done to the Mainland by adfarmers

I used to submit support tickets whenever I found these things, and indeed Support would take care of them.  But it's just gotten to be too much.  Here are two more I came across in recent travels, still in the same state today:

Without follow-through, it will hardly matter what new Mainland ideas are adopted.

---

This is one of those issues that does actually tee me off about LL. I hope that didn't cause anyone to fall off their chair in surprise, because I usually get accused of backing LL up 100%. 

Great photos, Qie, illustrating one of the issues of mainland that in my opinion LL do need to address.  It's obvious that someone has gone to the trouble of cutting up their land prior to abandoning it in such a way that it will probably either sit forever looking barren and ugly, or more likely that slivers of it will be bought by people who will make bits of the sim look ugly with just vendor boards, that aren't in breach of ToS, but just look ugly if they're not housed inside a building, and that will make the rest of the slivers unsaleable, and the sim even uglier. 

Of course, LL hope that someone with a conscience, and with money, will come along, "do the right thing", and buy all those parcels of land, piece them all together, and either use them, or cut them into usable chunks and attempt to sell them on.

This I don't find acceptable.  I would even volunteer to go around resizing these bits of land and setting them for sale, putting small pretty gardens on them in the meantime, if LL would trust me to do that (which, of course, they would be foolish to, because I'm just a resident, and someone they do not know if they can trust in such a way).  As a result, the sim would be more aesthetically pleasing, and be more likely to appeal to someone looking to buy land.

I still submit support tickets when I see land cut like this.  I usually have only 50% success rate, so I don't go out of my way to look for them, unless that's my half hour wind-down session. 

[Vesper Kling]

I did sail outside East River community some months ago and was totally impressed! Its a wonderful piece of land you all have been creating. I believe a lot in the power of a community and East River is a great example of  how it´s possible. And for people who wants to live in a community like this but also want to build some strange (pink?=)) stuff, why not do it above 1000m?

And I agree, Pussycat´s blog is great!

[Marigold Devin]

---

Knowl Paine wrote:

I would imagine that LL could enforce Zoning the same way they enforce most SL policies "You Cannot Access Second Life with this Account".

I suspect that there was a time when it benefited LL to spread out the content, so that it would appear that we had more than we did.

LL doesn't need any additional staff to enforce Zoning, the AR process would be sufficient. Self Governance of and by the Residents. 

The hardships and struggles of those who were forced to move to Zindra, often overshadows the hardships and struggles of the Residents who were left behind. As stated, many Mainlanders live in an abandoned and barren wasteland. From the map, Zindra appears to be alive and well on a brand new Continent. From the map, it is clear to see where massive amounts of time, energy and resources have been allocated.

 

 

........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Many Private Regions have a Building Codes in their Covenants. A claim that building codes are only good for them, is hypocrisy.

I will offer an equal and opposite recommendation, why don't all the Residents who want Pink buildings, search each other out, form groups, make notices and place AD's in order to get their own Region. This stuff drives me crazy. The suggestion that Residents in a residentially themed Region would all need to move so that a few stores could run businesses in residential settings, is Insane!. Get out of my Back Yard! Every aspect of my SL is not a potential for corporate profit. Stop trying to monetize me.

break, now focus.

This is not about micro management of people.

If an avatar is naked in a PG region, and nobody can see it, or reports it; did it really happen? Does it matter? No.

Agreements have spirits. The spirit, is the grounds' or demeanor of the parties, or people, who are a part of the agreement.

Zoning could be used as a factor in determining Fair Use.

A store could operate in a Residential zone. If numerousreports are filed, that would not be good. We should first ask "why" are neighbors so unhappy with the Store. The owner should be given a chance (or several) to work things out with the neighbors. If I owned a Store, I want to make people happy.... right?

If land was for sale in Kuula, and a resident built as house, should the rest of Region owners move? Of course not. The region, and others like it, should be zoned Educational. Same goes for Entertainment and Clubs.

I have seen Residents accidentally purchase land near a popular meeting place, and then try to AR a club that has been there for years. This

lot of frustration

, purchased unwittingly, could have been prevented had the Region been zoned. 

---

Yes, I feel that too, about the residents left behind on mainland after Zindra came into being. There was so much fuss about people having to be "herded" along to Zindra, and yet we knew the knock-on effect of that would be massive chunks of land left abandoned, and land prices dropping dramatically. 

While the overall number of people who have registered as Second Life residents has certainly grown since the opening of Zindra, going on the concurrency figures, we don't seem to need all the extra sims that have been created. As well as Zindra there have been the Linden Homes sims, and private regions coming and going, and so the mainland was destined to become quite tumbleweed-strewn in places.

If there were strong enough characters already living on the mainland who wished to take it upon themselves to purchase chunks of a sim and theme them up, others would undoubtedly, as I did on Oxal sim, follow suit, build in theme, but there would always be those who chose to be contrary.

We can attempt to mould our virtual world as we would like to see our real life, with a bit more order and beauty involved, but always it boils down to what the lowest common denominator want.  The blot on the landscape. 

This thread is the most interesting one I've read in a while.  All too often someone makes a remark on the forums about how vile/barren/ugly the mainland is, and while some parts are, much of it is not, and the biggest part of mainland is just empty completely.  Those of us that love the mainland, do so with a passion, and feel frustrated and disrespected when others go out of their way to bring it down.

What fascinates me is if you go around the fringes of the mainland, where the waterlands meet the sims, you find a lot of Governor-Linden owned sims, that have nothing else on them, just the water and the land, and no build enabled.  You are not encouraged to go with our bucket and spade and enjoy an hour autoreturn.  LL always just want to see what we do - see if we really will all end up like those kids in "The Lord of the Flies".



 

 

[om Charron]

Oh...just like the gated communities. or perhaps you mean like a theme park? What is beautiful for some is not for everyone. You ever seen some people's dogs? I do like highways to drive on and Rez on but then you get all those auto Rez machines that block the roads and greedy landowners building over the road. They are probably on the draconian beautifying kick too.. Democracy has a way of showing off people's good and bad taste. I say, buy yourself a chunk of mainland and make it like you think it should be. Don't expect daddy linden to come in and make your dream. Did you see that crap boat they handed out? Make your own community is what I say.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

- Given my blog today, where I looked at the numbers and show the mainland is more profitable for LLs than estate land:

http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/mainland-versus-estate-which-is-the-better-bang-for-your-buck-to-linden-lab/

---

This used to come up at Jack Linden office hours, where the Estate folks complained that their higher per-sim fees (US$295) subsidized Mainland (US$195 for full sim tier).  Jack responded that in fact, the average Mainland sim earned LL only very slightly less than a full Estate sim.  Now, I don't know what went into that "average"... whether it included the overhead of abandoned land, Linden/LDPW infrastructure, double-prim allotments... none of that was made explicit.  And of course times change, but I think the amount of abandoned Mainland that LL has to carry is somewhat higher now (ever since Zindra really). So, I doubt that Mainland actually earns LL more per sim than Estates, assuming Jack was correct in his accounting.  I suspect it's still just slightly less.

Also, in theory, LL should have higher costs per Mainland sim, to staff for the estate manager role.  In practice, however, the amount of support they actually invest in Mainland has to be very small, and some (most?) of it would be needed somewhere anyway, as long as they keep public sandboxes and infohubs.

[Vesper Kling]

---

om Charron wrote:

Oh...just like the gated communities. or perhaps you mean like a theme park? What is beautiful for some is not for everyone. You ever seen some people's dogs? I do like highways to drive on and Rez on but then you get all those auto Rez machines that block the roads and greedy landowners building over the road. They are probably on the draconian beautifying kick too.. Democracy has a way of showing off people's good and bad taste. I say, buy yourself a chunk of mainland and make it like you think it should be. Don't expect daddy linden to come in and make your dream. Did you see that crap boat they handed out? Make your own community is what I say.

---

Communities are fine yes, but we cant expect that everyone has the funds needed to buy the amount of land necessary to protect themselves from a horrid surrounding. If LL is gaining from customers being premium they need to make ppl want to have their land, on mainland. Otherwise there is no point in it. If you think mainland s-cks you may as well rent on a private themed island and LL looses a premium customer. That´s not the way to go I believe...

I dont expect LL to be any kind of "daddy" but I expect them to want to make good business. And to allow people to build eyesore pink huge prims all over mainland is not good business :]

read Pussycat´s blog, its brill; Mainland vs Private estates

[Indigo Mertel]

>> While it might not be everyone's cup of tea to be governed or have such a closely-knit feeling <<

Very true, Marigold. In fact, I don't think there should be a "one model fit all" solution, nor I think the model I suggest would be the solution of all problems for Mainland.There will always be areas which will remain chaotic and poorly maintained. Just consider the vast amount of land owners who are just out of the loop, with very little involvement in SL. That's fine, some residents appreciate the chaotic nature of Mainland, so there is space for that as well.

However, by offering benefits in joining a community many land owners are given a reason to join one, or get some people together and start a new one. This would give a spin to a positive trend that may have good results. Our community is proof of what benefits our model brought to our area. You should have seen how the regions in our district looked like 5 - 6 years ago, total chaos.

Our model works because our members are encouraged to take pride of all the work they put into their land and being part of a common project, we share resources and support each other and the benefits are visible. And, note that I said their land, because our charter says that each group or individual remains the sole owner of the land. Our members are not forced to submit their land to a common group, they keep full control of it. This is why it is a federative model.

In my opinion, the model I suggest is what would bring the most benefits without forcing everyone to adapt. LL should encourage people to form self-governing communities, not forcing them to adopt it. Those who don't want it should not be forced to be part of it. And, by being self-governing bodies it would be up to their members to decide the level of involvement they want to have, or how close-knit they want to be. Some don't like the idea of being part of a community? Fine, call it a land trust, the result is the same. :matte-motes-asleep-2:

The only things that should be a requirement are some basic rules with the purpose of improving Mainland. Thus, offering benefits in exchange of better land management.

[Indigo Mertel]

Thank you for your kind words, Vesper. And I agree that a community, a federation of groups or a land trust, however people want to call it (see my other post about this bit) still leaves room to accomodate special needs. In our case, maintaining a cohesive environment is a fundamental need, but we can still accomodate specific needs. Thus, we do exactly what you suggest and allow sky boxes at an altitude so that they are not an eye-sore.

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

- Given my blog today, where I looked at the numbers and show the mainland is more profitable for LLs than estate land:

http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/mainland-versus-estate-which-is-the-better-bang-for-your-buck-to-linden-lab/

---

This used to come up at Jack Linden office hours, where the Estate folks complained that their higher per-sim fees (US$295) subsidized Mainland (US$195 for full sim tier).  Jack responded that in fact, the average Mainland sim earned LL only very slightly less than a full Estate sim.

 

So, I doubt that Mainland actually earns LL more per sim than Estates, assuming Jack was correct in his accounting.  I suspect it's still just slightly less.

---

And yet all numbers point otherwise

His response may simply have been assuming sim for sim with mainland at a very low occupancy. Because it has to hit 62% empty before it pays less than an estate.

- If one sim is 100% empty, and its neighbor is 100% full, that's still mainland sims earning more than an estate, overall - in terms of sim ratios. BUT you could also say that the individual empty sim is paying LLs less than an individual estate.

 

[Qie Niangao]

You know... maybe LL considered revenue from Premium membership to be separate from the Land product, in which case they may have been comparing monthly Mainland tier only to Estate fees. That would be pretty silly, but LL was a pretty byzantine organization back then, so product accounting may have been skewed by fiefdom.  

On the other hand, Premium membership also pays out stipend, which relieves demand for freshly-minted L$ sales, so it's not entirely fair to credit all Mainland-owners' Premium membership fees to Land, either.

If it does include the Premium membership fees, then yeah: either they'd have to be including a whole lot of non-paying Mainland space in the average, or the average holding would have to be very much larger than the assumed 2048 tier level. (It's very hard to argue one way or another about what that average holding size might be, without the data. Tyche could probably measure it for individuals, but group land is completely opaque as to which specific account contributes how much).

[Knowl Paine]

I visited the Second Life Region De Haro.

The Region is Zoned as a camping ground.

It would be appear that a Region can be Zoned without making a Covenant.

The Zoning requirement, as written and provided by Linden Lab in a Notecard, is very vague. The zoning notecard could offer additional clarifications.

I can see some hurdles and obstacles for zoning. The Region is not in Chaos because of Zoning, and it is also, Not perfect because of zoning.

It appears that Grandfathering of some plots, may be required for zoning to work. (like a store(s), etc., that has been there forever) :smileyindifferent:

I will copy and post the Zoning notecard in an update in this thread. If another Resident here has a copy, posting it would be helpful.

 

I purchased a small plot in the Region De Haro. 

I will post an update when I have additional information.

[Knowl Paine]

Thank you for replying,

Many Region Owners have strong character. 

In a past discussion about a "revamp of the Mainland", I proposed offering a, Bonus 4,096 sqm Mainland Tier credit, to all qualifing Region owners.

Offering incentives for experienced Region Owners to share in the Community on the Mainland, can provide for a greater number of people who lead by example.

The Mainland Tier credit could be titled as "Showcase" in a Residents Land Use page. The credit can only be used to acquire, or sell the land for Showcase use.

Numerous, or Multiply transfers of Showcase Land Credit should place a flag on the account page for possible Abuse. The system is not intended to enable land baroning, bot selling , mass realty transfers.

 

 

I have been looking around a bit more than usual. I have found many very nice places.

I'm trying to keep an open viewpoint on Zoning. I have changed my opinion some; a very small change can have a really big effect. Many things have changed in SL, and many things will continue to change, we cannot stop it. We can only influence it.

 

[Marigold Devin]

I'm glad you're enjoying exploring more. I love exploring.  The more you see... well... the more you see :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

Just thinking about some of the places that stand out to me on the mainland, because groups of people and individuals have "zoned" a sim.  Lipshen is set out a bit like a Linden Homes sim, and Scratchy sim next door is more coastal-themed but owned by the same property rentals group.



The first sim I lived was Missing Beckett, which was mainly residential.  I owned just a 512m parcel, up on a hill, with one property below mine on the beach.  There was, and still is a wonderful garden store on this sim around 750m up in the sky.  How my old land looks now, along with the great view ...



The nearby sim of Tyrafoon used to be entirely set out like a giant shopping mall, with an amusement park at one side.  In my early days I discovered it was full of traffic bots "camping", and maybe it just wasn't financially viable in the end, as the whole sim was sold off, and the next owners turned it into a monastic-themed sim, complete with monestary.  Currently it is similar to Missing Beckett, in that it is mainly residential, and beach-themed.

Using the search for bots (or ghosts!) or a bike ride as an excuse to explore the mainland, I soon get distracted by interesting builds and sights, such as the clock museum http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triglav/89/31/72,



or a lighthouse, bridge, or giant tiger http://slurl.com/secondlife/Tiger/183/48/68



It's taken me an age to put this post together, because I've been going through old landmarks to check these places still exist, but I hope it shows some of the people who don't like mainland that they shouldn't write it off just yet, as there are some fabulous places, and it really can get better if people pull together to make it better.



[Pussycat Catnap]

When not accounting the stipend, they actually get more out of us the smaller the average holding is - because then more people are paying for the premium fee.

 

Accounting for the stipend gets very complicated... its runs into several if this then that, else the other thing scenarios...

 

The stipend has been lowered over time from 500 to 300. Its play money for the most part - it can be considered in terms of that much money people do not buy on the linden exchange.

At the current rate, it is $62.40 per year -not- put into the linden exchange.

If considered real money, That's $0.80 a month is what a premium account costs -after- accounting for it. BUT that's only assuming the estate folks are then turning around and buying 300L/week on the exchange.

- I would argue they are -not- buying lindens on the exchange any more than premium members buy -more- lindens. But this is where it goes beyond numbers... I'm thinking that 300L/week is so trivial that if you buy lindens, its not enough.

But yes - if we assume:

1. mainlanders -who do buy L$- then buy less L$ because of the stipend. Or mainlanders who don't buy L$ -ONLY- don't buy because of the stipend.

-AND-

2. ESTATEOWNERS on estate buy -the same amount- of L$ as mainlanders buy, plus 300*49/week more -only because- they don't get a stipend.

Why 300*49? - that's the amount of stipend lost from those 49 mainlanders. So if an estate owner is not buying this much lindens per week, then the stipend is -not- causing a loss greater to one side than to the other.

In fact, IF the estate's owner (not the renters), is -NOT- buying that much lindens, then the loss buys from the mainlanders are essentially 'free money' created out of thin air - and work to boost revenue even more by encouraging participation in the linden economy...

300L/week runs out these days before you finish buying a single outfit... any fashionista in SL is going to need more. She's either going to hit that buy button, or have a sugar daddy hitting it for her - directly, or indrectly in the form of some SL job.

- I myself am annecdote of this. I didn't start really shopping in SL until I got my stipend. Once I did, it was never enough.

Some folks will say, the products they make earn enough that they never hit the buy L$ button. But they do - or rather, their customers hit it for them.

 Its 11pm for me right now, and I just finished driving for 10 hours on a trip, or I'd sit down and think this out more.

- Obviously once you put that stipend into play, the discussion gets a -LOT- more complicated.

My intuition tells me mainland still makes more, but it needs to be thought out more.

 

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

You're overthinking the stipend thing.  Recipients may or may not reduce their own LindeX purchases as individuals; it doesn't matter. What's relevant is that stipends increase the total L$ money supply, so for the currency to retain the same value some other source must be smaller by a corresponding amount.  Maybe stipend recipients need to buy fewer L$s, or maybe the people the recipients buy stuff from in turn need to buy fewer L$s, or the people those people buy stuff from, or... basically, it's the "invisible hand," buying fewer L$s from Supply LInden.

Of course, I don't know whether Premium membership fees were excluded from the Land accounting that Jack was talking about, way back when.  I'm just guessing about that.  If they were, it might not have been only about stipends; they may have considered membership fees to be support payments that only incidentally allowed ownership of Mainland.  (In fact, it may well be that only a minority of Premium members actually own Mainland. That's not really germane as long as every Mainland owner must be a Premium member, but it looks like an argument for keeping separate tier and membership revenue.)

While playing with the numbers, I was a little surprised to find that the 2048 sq.m. tier level is the very least cost-effective of all, in terms of square meters per US$ spent on tier alone.  In contrast, if membership fees are added in, then the per-sq.m. costs decrease monotonically with tier level.  Hence, at least the tier structure was priced taking membership fees into account.

[Knowl Paine]

You are correct about the requirement of resources from LL. The roads in West Haven, and the protected waters in De Haro, are vital to those communities.

I have been looking at several areas on the Map for land with distinguishing features such as, pre-existing Protected Land, location on the grid, adjacent regions, roadways and land features. I believe that there should be "qualifiers" for zoning. Very few regions appear to meet all of the criteria. For that reason, I believe that zoning would not be a burden on the AR system. 

In one of my many threads, I complained about Limited Liability Corporations... . "How to play by your own the rules", might make for a fun thread.

You're putting the cart in front of the horse. Any developing community is not going to have the benefit of time, and other past programs such as the First Land program, which was another LL enhancement feature, just like a road, river, or bridge. Zoning could offer a small amount of shelter, to allow for new growth.

Residents with means, can find a few, or several like minded individuals and maintain manageable, amiable relationships without a need for zoning. The problem with trying to expand upon this model is that you will quickly run out of reasonable people ,or, the Means by which to attract reasonable people.

Zoning could offer justification for the assignment of worth, by providing worth. 

The next big thing, is found in Infancy. In being new, or novel, Inventive, adaptive and capable of original thought. These actions are what bring us the finer things in Life, and the things which people consider to be "In" or "fancy". 

 

 

The photo of the building on the waterfront in Muirhead looks fantastic, very nicely done. I will have to visit. 

Gun toting? Where did that come from? Oh... The pink building people comment. My apologies, I was ranting.

The work that you and your Group have done is remarkable, and is worthy of recognition. (wanna get zoned, jk)

I would like to see additional Regions like the one you share in your part of SL. I think that we should all keep an open perspective when exploring the possible methods by which we could achieve common goals for common unity.

 

 

 

 

edit: typos

 

[161488303349]

the Chilbo mainland community is quite interesting. has been growing organically for quite a few years now. when it runs into an exorbitant micro-parcel or a newbie derelict build or something else that doesn't initially seem to fit, it just flows round whatever and keeps growing into the neighbouring sims

the orginal Chilbo landowning group is quite small now compared to the total land owned by the extended community. people just seem to come along and buy a parcel close by and join up to the existing paths, run the path across their land somewhere and then sooner or later the parcel next along joins up and so it goes. is quite fascinating really how it has been working there

[Marianne McCann]

---

Knowl Paine wrote:

I visited the Second Life Region

De Haro

.

The Region is Zoned as a camping ground.

It would be appear that a Region can be Zoned without making a Covenant.

---

Yes, regions like De Hard, Brown, Boardman, Green, and the partial region that comprises the Lusk Estates are zoned - but, for what it's worth, they've not been enforced in many years.

Incidentially, I wish that LL would have at least had a "zoning" notecard giver in Bay City akin to those in Boardman or elsewhere. Or something in the covenant. Even if just to say "Hey, this is the basic idea behind the area" without any hard and fast rules applied.

(Ninja typo edit!)

[Indigo Mertel]

The "gun toting" remark was tongue in cheek, not addressed to you...

This picture of Muirhead Village taken by Letitia Coronet is more recent and much better than I one I took:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77084517@N03/6984367053/