Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >Anything that would bring the concurrency up to the double, or gasp - even 10 user agents per sim at peak would be a tremendous boost for SecondLife and the SL economy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I assume there's a positive correlation between concurrency and the rate at which money changes hands in SL, but I'm not sure how strong a correlation it would necessarily prove to be. There was higher concurrency, for example, when there was more camping. But was the camping really a huge benefit to the economy? If it was, why shouldn't LL find some way to bring it back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >That Malefactor Linden is a sneaky one. Apparently affects not only quoting but your own responses from being able to contain line breaks and paragraphs.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Malefactor Linden or not, the inteface is f###ing broken. I can't do anything with the font, and it doesn't even recognize common characters like the ampersand or the greater than sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >And other factors... such as whether you create your own textures or you just grab something from a website without asking permission from the IP right holders.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have a specific accusation, I'd like you to make it, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >Sculpts will fast be replaced with mesh items, and for many content creators the transition can be a rough ride. Combine that with the mobile client LL is working on, you may have to make significant investments to be successful.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Even a lot of hardcore mesh people have repeatedly told me that they don't believe mesh is an imminent threat to most of my better-selling products. I'm aware that other things can happen, of course. But the main idea is that if I stopped making stuff right now, SLM would continue to accumulate some amount of money for some time while I sleep. In comparison to using my time for watching more TV, or doing other things that don't pay me back at all, I'm doing OK. Bankers surely waste more money and destroy more consumer value than I do, and I think they may enjoy what they do less than I enjoy what I do. But I guess the fact that they get paid more to waste more means that they're not "hobbysist". Is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >no wonder so many Merchants only use "break-even" as their goal.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then they're at least holding to a higher standard that the US Federal Government, or the coporations that own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >Do you get any click throughs all the way to a purchase on these? Your guess is as good as mine... ;-)----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've got some high google rankings on my SLM items, myself. I donpt need to count the click-thrus because I'm not paying anything extra for them anyway. Tribe.net lets me use RSS to feed the Google spiders pretty much any few lines of text at a time I might choose. No monthy fee, no limit, and no danger of being "managed" either directly by Lindens or indirectly by possible competing merchants. http://www.tribe.net/template/pub,PopPic.vm?picURL=http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/c92/f87/c92f8768-dd61-496b-83d0-a46881369788&altText=proof%20of%20Google%20ranking%20for%20%22zynga%20second%20life%20merger%22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >The massive focus on the marketplace with new residents ruins the retention, because it gives new residents less incentive to explore in-world. To some extent it makes it look just like another shopping site, only that it sells pointless virtual products in a phony currency. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS, I do consider to be an angle worth considering. Why push people straight to a virtual products site if they have no real idea yet why they shiould want to buy any of the products? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >I think the reverse is true - that many give up because their efforts are devalued (they can't sell anything because so much is free).--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyone for whom this is true either has a very abnormal kind of creative disability, or gets discourged so easily that they need shrink way more than they need LL to do anything to further indulge their condition. It's practically impossible not to make money on the SLM. Even the stuff that I have conspicuously made a point of deriving from easily-found public domain image websites makes at least some money with some regularity. Anyone who can Google the terms "free online image editor" and "public domain images" can at least produce some new textures or something. If they can't figure out how to use Sculptypaint, they can nonetheless eventually accumulate enough texture money to buy something like Prim Composer, as I recently did. Then they can sell 1-prim sculpted robots and insects and furniture what whatnot. The long tail for nickels and dimes, so far, seems pretty darn long to me here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >I don't think most people appreciate what they get for free...so it follows they would devalue SL if it's all free.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I don't think anyone here as advocated making everything free. Certainly not me. Any amount of freebies will fail to devalue the best things if they are not free. As Steve Wynn has noted, there are always people who want the best and are willing to pay for it. Letting his customers stay at Motel6 for free, instead, wouldn't deter many of them from staying at the Wynn. N00bs want to start shaping up, dressing up and accessorizing on day one, mostly. For them, there is some free stuff that will keep them satisfied with their appearance and meager possessions long enough to assimilate the larger SL experience. But they soon learn that there's at least slightly better stuff if they're willing to pay for it. And they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >Healthy mix of prices on each first page. I cannot find an example of what you are talking about. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did you type in "the sky is falling"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >You think that is caused by freebies, and I think that is caused by competition.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Freebies are a form of competition. At least in my case. They draw consumer attention to the rest of my product line. Since I don't pay to promote anything, getting people to specifically pull up my SLM store is pretty important. Freebies do this. People who won't offer them are throwing away a major marketing tool. That's their problem. I shouldn't have to throw it away, too, just because they think they're somehow above making legitimate use of it in order to compete with people who do use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 >On a platform such as Second Life with declining concurrency...something has to give. It's unsustainable-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes. What has to give is the existing level of tolerance for inferior products. But it's a natural selection process. Better products will continue to gradually displace inferior ones, even as more inferior ones are also created. Of course, things that can't be copied, can't be modified, or can't be transferred are not going to evolve as far. I'm not afraid of having to compete with better and better products every year, because better products also mean a more compelling total SL experience, and that's a reason for consumers to continue logging on and continuing to spend. If I want a piece of that, I just need to make better stuff. That's fair, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 > I don't know the reasons why they closed...but I could make a good stab at it!---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fact that I'd never even heard of it until it was announced as shutting down might be one hint that at least something was being done less than perfecty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 good grief, Rene. Why don't you find out circumstances before you label a sim closing as a failure, or at least imply that. People's lives change. Or just leave well enough alone, he gave a nice gesture and said he would still have marketplace store open. Geez You need to hook up with that Hamlet guy and get yourself a job reporting for the Death Sim Watch or whatever the heck that guy calls it.. You would be good at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: >I would prefer much higher concurrency.......there's far too much land on SL Grid and i've said that for several years now. Just think of 31k sims on the grid versus peak logins of 60-70k.....that's 2 avatars per sim when SL is at it's busiest.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think you missed the point of the dilemma. It wasn't more land or higher concurrency. It was higher land value or higher concurrency. I meant it as an hypothetical example of a problem that would be insoluble to someome who considers both higher land value and higher concurrency to warrant any other possible kind of sacrifice. No I haven't missed the point...i chose higher concurrency and not higher priced land. You once again failed to read my reply correctly. 40%+ of LL Mainland lands are empty...not sure of the rates on Private Estates, but I would guess at least 20%. If we had higher concurrency it would fill up some of the available Land supply. It helps that Land is lowly priced in this instance.. Supply and demand! Simples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: Gavin -->Anything that would bring the concurrency up to the double, or gasp - even 10 user agents per sim at peak would be a tremendous boost for SecondLife and the SL economy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I assume there's a positive correlation between concurrency and the rate at which money changes hands in SL, but I'm not sure how strong a correlation it would necessarily prove to be. There was higher concurrency, for example, when there was more camping. But was the camping really a huge benefit to the economy? If it was, why shouldn't LL find some way to bring it back? The above quote was written by Gavin and not me. Yes, camping had economic as well as social benefits. It increased and recyled "money supply" and made for a more dynamic environment. Company A pays for Camping----> Resident B recieves monies for Camping----> and spends camping monies on products at Company C....thus dynamic money supply moving around the system.....otherwise you become solely reliant on "new money" brought into the SL economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 sky - healthy mix falling - healthy mix sky is falling - healthy mix and half of page wide open for new product tin foil hat - freebie - only one on the page - grab it. market wide open - that device is rather intriguing - it says "make all your lies appear true" - quite intriguing, yes. You could bust one out there, Josh, at 5L - rule the market. tin foil - healthy mix - some cuties on that page I'm going to start charging for this service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: > I don't know the reasons why they closed...but I could make a good stab at it!---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fact that I'd never even heard of it until it was announced as shutting down might be one hint that at least something was being done less than perfecty. If you haven't heard of "Cartoonimals" ...you need to get out about more in SL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Mickey Vandeverre wrote: good grief, Rene. Why don't you find out circumstances before you label a sim closing as a failure, or at least imply that. People's lives change. Or just leave well enough alone, he gave a nice gesture and said he would still have marketplace store open. Geez You need to hook up with that Hamlet guy and get yourself a job reporting for the Death Sim Watch or whatever the heck that guy calls it.. You would be good at that. How many overall sim losses would it take to give you an idea of conditions? The 170 sims lost last week? The 150 sims the week before? A real sim deathwatch would be more than a full time job. I'm sure some were lost just because people change and move on, but all of them? And always trending toward losses, is that a solid business indicator that things are fine, or that the model is eroding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Mickey Vandeverre wrote: good grief, Rene. Why don't you find out circumstances before you label a sim closing as a failure, or at least imply that. People's lives change. Or just leave well enough alone, he gave a nice gesture and said he would still have marketplace store open. Geez You need to hook up with that Hamlet guy and get yourself a job reporting for the Death Sim Watch or whatever the heck that guy calls it.. You would be good at that. If the Sim was profitable month in and month out.....he wouldn't close it down, he might as well chuck fresh dollar notes onto a bomb fire. He kept his MP store because that will always derive a profit.....not so the case of keeping a sim and having to pay $295 monthly Tiers. Tiers can be paid without connecting to the Client.....i did it for 7-8 months for a number of sims without ever logging into SL. I didn't log in because my life changed during that period....but it didn't mean i had to close down and sell up as the business as a whole was profitable....i would have been an !diot to do so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Mickey Vandeverre wrote: sky - healthy mix falling - healthy mix sky is falling - healthy mix and half of page wide open for new product tin foil hat - freebie - only one on the page - grab it. market wide open - that device is rather intriguing - it says "make all your lies appear true" - quite intriguing, yes. You could bust one out there, Josh, at 5L - rule the market. tin foil - healthy mix - some cuties on that page I'm going to start charging for this service. I told you most of your comments...are out there for the Birds. The above quote just validates it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Dartagan Shepherd wrote: Mickey Vandeverre wrote: good grief, Rene. Why don't you find out circumstances before you label a sim closing as a failure, or at least imply that. People's lives change. Or just leave well enough alone, he gave a nice gesture and said he would still have marketplace store open. Geez You need to hook up with that Hamlet guy and get yourself a job reporting for the Death Sim Watch or whatever the heck that guy calls it.. You would be good at that. How many overall sim losses would it take to give you an idea of conditions? The 170 sims lost last week? The 150 sims the week before? A real sim deathwatch would be more than a full time job. I'm sure some were lost just because people change and move on, but all of them? And always trending toward losses, is that a solid business indicator that things are fine, or that the model is eroding? (and Rene) I'm sorry, but it took me like half a year until I sat down to do the Math. Was busy. Just kept feedin' that tier machine. And this is nothing against my tier taker - he is awesome dude. And I don't think I can mention venues, because did that the other day, and several pages here went missing - but might be something else - you never know. the tier fee was a zillion times more than a very popular online retail site that has more tools than you can imagine. the tier fee was a trillion times more than a very popular online retail site that has more customers than you can imagine. the tier fee was a billion times more than brick and mortar space the tier fee was enough more than roof over head payment to make you cringe and the tier fee was more than most all of the other daily services combined. IN A BAD ECONOMY. Tell me what part of any of the above equation makes sense to carry on with. forgot to mention: IN A WALLED GARDEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Not sure what you're referencing here, understand if you can't explain. Caught those pages going missing, assumed it was LL, but then I figured it was you, deleting your posts, taking out all the replies that went with it. Wasn't going to comment on it, because it was your choice to remove your post(s). Fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 It tells me your sales weren't covering your Tiers ....which is probably the same reason why Cartoonimals are closing now. It's the most logical reason.....as rarely would one close down a profitable business (I didn't!)...even then one could get a partner or close friend to manage it, whilst away to deal with RL issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: >And other factors... such as whether you create your own textures or you just grab something from a website without asking permission from the IP right holders.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have a specific accusation, I'd like you to make it, please. The discussion was about whether it is profitable enough to sell very cheap items. You were pointing to factors that play a role like the value of money in the country where a resident lives. I added a factor that also plays a role, it's a different time investment in a product when you make your textures yourself, then when you just grab them from the internet without asking permission. When you make them yourself the paid out rate per worked hour, is much lower then when you just grab them from the internet. What about that makes you ask for a specific accusation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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