Thank you Linden Lab and congratulations!

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

Yeah, you explained this before, and just because Google does something a certain way, it does not mean it is right for SL. To say that it makes any sense at all is to say that Google does it right. Making sense is not about how it works, it is about how it should work. We pay to have our parcels ranked. When you pay for something, you expect it to be there in every single query relevant to it. I do not care if LL says or Google says there are limitations, we didn't have these limitations before. To use an engine with such limitations is straight out stupid for a system such as SL, and any1 that spent more than a few minutes thinking about it could have seen the problems that it presents. My major question to LL would be, "Why does it take years for so called professionals to see such a major mistake, especially when it cost your corporation millions of dollars?"

---

 

i'm gonna try it and see..logging in now..

i wanna see what happens when i type in animation..like i said i haven't used the search much lately and i haven't used this one to search for dances or animations before..

to me i wish they would just go back to the way profiles were and also have the inworld search inworld again..i don't like all this web based stuff..

 

Aaanyways i'm logged in now..kk gonna try just animation with  no filters in places first..

ok i show

Abranimation

SEmotion

and then yours..Medhue Animations

then Henmations

then Vista

 

all the rest are G and yours is M rating..

on mature search yours comes up number one..

 

now i'm gonna try the everything search..

ok i see

Abranimation

then two groups for some animation or something..

then Henmation

and Vista

 

ok i can't find you or Semotion on the first page..what are those three that were in the top five on the places search doing that  yours and SEmotion isn't doing on the Everything search?

i would think you would place there with them..the others have to be doing something to be keeping their spots the same as places..

as i said..i don't use search much anymore .so i'm sure i have no idea what that something is hehehe

but it looks like there is a pattern that could put you there .

[Phil Deakins]

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

Yeah, you explained this before, and just because Google does something a certain way, it does not mean it is right for SL. To say that it makes any sense at all is to say that Google does it right. Making sense is not about how it works, it is about how it should work. We pay to have our parcels ranked. When you pay for something, you expect it to be there in every single query relevant to it. I do not care if LL says or Google says there are limitations, we didn't have these limitations before. To use an engine with such limitations is straight out stupid for a system such as SL, and any1 that spent more than a few minutes thinking about it could have seen the problems that it presents. My major question to LL would be, "Why does it take years for so called professionals to see such a major mistake, especially when it cost your corporation millions of dollars?"

---

I didn't say it was right. I said it makes sense, and it does make sense when you realise or remember how search engines *have* to apply a gathering limit. I've always said that the GSA is like using a square peg to fit a round hole.

Before the GSA, there was no attempt to rank on relevancy, and the results were atrocious. Remember the All results with their "AAAAAAA" and "                   AAAAAAAAA" parcel names? and the Places search that only needed a word in the title or description to be ranked? Someone mentioned that earlier in this thread. The GSA produced *much* better results but it was wrong for SL because of things like you described - which I explained in the long post.

I completely agree that, since we pay to be in search, our parcels should be listed for at least their main keywords/phrases.

But there's another way of looking at it. Suppose the engine doesn't have a limit to the results set (that 40,000 is the "results set", of which only the top 1000 for relevancy are returned). Suppose it just kept on sending pages of results until all the matches have been returned. Why would we want it to do that? No searcher would look far down, so all those extra pages of results would be pointless - except for one thing. At least a parcel owner would be able to find out if his parcel is actually being listed. But even then, what parcel owners would look that far down? You said yourself that your parcel isn't ranked, and then added, not in the top 50, anyway. So there's no real point in returning all the possible results. The only people who make use of it are those very parcel owners who really would dig as far down as it took to see where their parcel is.

Apart from there being no real point, such a system would take far too long to return any results at all, which is why search engines have a limit. It would have to sort all the results into relevancy - a very time-consuming operation. It wouldn't be just a case of using a typical database output, such as from a MySql query, because that has no bearing on relevancy.

For relevant results, a limit to the size of the results set must be imposed. But that comes up against the fact the people pay to be in search, and sometimes aren't even the top 1000 for their main keywords/phrases. It's a tough problem. The GSA was a square peg, and any open source engine is bound to be a square peg, at least initially.

[Phil Deakins]

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

..what are those three that were in the top five on the places search doing that  yours and SEmotion isn't doing on the Everything search?

---

They are indexed in a different part of the database, so the limit of the results set is reached, with them included, before Medhue's entry is reached. And there's nothing that Medhue can do about it.

On the bright side, it's possible that most searchers who are shopping will use the Places search.

[Phil Deakins]

---

Cerise Sorbet wrote:

Yes, they got rid of the Google back end with the new search interface introduced in May. The interface on the web search for V1 viewers

looks

almost exactly like the Google based one, but it is now a simulation that really draws results from the new system. They originally said that there would be no support for 1.23, then they changed their minds.

---

Thank you for that.

The various interfaces were always SL's designs. The GSA outputs results and it is up to the licencee how to display them.

[Medhue Simoni]

You are probably seeing my small parcel in places, not my actual store, which is like 16k meters. The small parcel is only like 528 meters. 

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

..what are those three that were in the top five on the places search doing that  yours and SEmotion isn't doing on the Everything search?

---

They are indexed in a different part of the database, so the limit of the results set is reached, with them included, before Medhue's entry is reached. And there's nothing that Medhue can do about it.

On the bright side, it's possible that most searchers who are shopping will use the Places search.

---

well ya that does kind of suck for them then..especially since they can't do anything to change it..

but when i search i use places anyways..unless i can't find what i am looking for ..then i used to use the ALL search which i guess now is the Everything search..

but really i mostly use market place now..

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

You are probably seeing my small parcel in places, not my actual store, which is like 16k meters. The small parcel is only like 528 meters. 

---

ya that's the one that shows..the 528

i may be around there today..this thread has reminded me i need to update some of my animations or at least see what is new in animations since the last time i went which has been a good 6 months lol

[Medhue Simoni]

Cool, I did just make a new female AO, that I call Sexy Fem. I think it has some nice mocaps, especially for messing with your hair.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

Cool, I did just make a new female AO, that I call Sexy Fem. I think it has some nice mocaps, especially for messing with your hair.

---

oh those sound nice hehehe

i want one of those suits to make animations..not for sl to sell them..but just to make silly stuff for machinima and whatever else that comes to mind..hehehehe

last i heard they were like 5,000 or so..are they still around that now?

i know there are others much higher than that..but i'm not planning on being a pro or anything..just like a toy hehehe

[Eio Tuqiri]

I certainly agree that the new Search is broken on secondlife.com as well as inworld.  When I want to do a search, I use my Phoenix viewer which has the old search and much better results. 

If anyone wants to be part of the solution concerning search that doesn't work check out the SL jira, there are loads of issues!  Just do a search for "search".

Here are a couple of links to ones I've started or commented on.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3046

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4061

And wow, I decided to start this thread because I've complained so much here that I also wanted to thank Linden Lab for Second Life. 

There are a lot of issues that need to be addressed, and plenty that have lingered on for years with no attention, BUT Second Life is an amazing world and for me an incredible creative tool.  Just wanted to let the Lab and Rodvik know I appreciate that.

[Aztral Aeon]

Well...I usually call things 'like they are' which means mostly complaints about LL, but I also now have to give LL a slight pat on the back. It does appear they are making some prgress at least on the development-side. Mesh is working, new functions, important bug fixes, etc. So.../pat development team!

Albeit, mesh should have been done before SL rolled off the assembly line...but at least most people should be able upload their 3D models without jumping through a bunch of 'hoops' to make a sculptie (even thought I'll still work with sculpties until non-mesh viewers are gone). 

 

So grats dev team!

[Ceka Cianci]

now we just need to wait for them to upgrade from dial-up

KIDDING!!! LOL

i just had to say it because  right now i am just trying to do something simple and it's taking all day because SL is moving so slow today..and it's not on my end  lol

it's usually pretty fast for me..but since i am spoiled i can't hold back hehehehehe *giggles*

[Medhue Simoni]

The suits are kind of old technology now, and still very expensive. Nowadays, most people are using camera based systems with no suits or anything like that. Even with 4 normal high def webcams, you can get very good accuracy of movement. Plus, I now use 2 kinect cameras. With only 2 cameras, I can get full 360 degree coverage in my tiny work office at home. I have seen software for these types of systems range from $400 - $1000, and you have to buy the cameras.

@Eio Tuqiri - Thanks, that is good to know. Finding the time to go over those is the hard part. I'm so pressed for time these days, with numerous things always lined up to do next.

[Eio Tuqiri]

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

We pay to have our parcels ranked.

---

I've been wondering about this, if people pay to have their adds show up in search.  What does it mean to have your "parcels ranked"?  And would you please say more about how that works?

[Domitan Redenblack]

I had a run of great performance from LL servers over the spring and summer until about 5-7 weeks ago. Now things are laggy and slow, even the log-in screen takes 4-5x longer to appear now.

And yes, I have re-installed viewer etc, and my ISP continues to provide me with 10 Mbps of insanely-reliable service. My viewer only crashes once every 2-3 weeks or so (MacMini OSX 10.7.2), and I clear my cache about once a week.

 

So... What is going on? Have LL changed something? Have fewer servers? I see in the quarterly report that user-hours in-world have actually gone down in the last year.

What's up here, Linden?

 

[Phil Deakins]

---

Eio Tuqiri wrote:

---

Medhue Simoni wrote:

We pay to have our parcels ranked.

---

I've been wondering about this, if people pay to have their adds show up in search.  What does it mean to have your "parcels ranked"?  And would you please say more about how that works?

---

Medhue was talking about parcels, and not ads.

Striclty speaking, we don't pay to have our parcels ranked. We pay to have them show in search. It amounts to the same thing though - if they show, they must be ranked.

That's the answer to your question. What happens is that each parcel that is set to show in search has an html page created for it. When the search engine receives a query (when you do a search on a word or phrase), it tries to rank all the pages according to how relevant they are to the particular query.

Because of the necessary limitations mentioned earlier in the thread, it often isn't possible for the SL engine to "show" all the parcel pages for many queries, which means that LL is taking to weekly cost of having a parcel show in search under false pretenses - and they know it.

[Eio Tuqiri]

Thanks Phil,

The new web based search regularly shows fewer results than the old search.

I use my Phoenix viewer whenever I want to use search since the "new" search is so appalingly horrible. 

Think I'll do a comparison search right now for a couple of listings...

With Phoenix which has the old search, for PG, M, and A ratings  with nothing put in the Find: window:

• Searching "Events" "Live Music" 265 listings
• Searching "Events" "Commercial" 72 listings

Ok, now same searches with Firestorm which has the new web based search:

• Searching "Events" "Live Music" 221 listings
• Searching "Events" "Commercial" 57 listings
  

Just for a small example of the difference between the old and new Search.

Oh, and on secondlife.com?  It's WAY worse:

"Upcoming Events" for "Show next 24 hours"

• "Live Music" 24 listings
• "Commercial" 16 listings
  

There are old jiras on this that no one at LL seems to be paying attention to.  The "new" search has been broken from the outset.  What about all the people who are paying to have their listings show in search?  What about the people putting on events and selling things whose listings just aren't showing?

Darn!  Meant for this to be about thanking Linden Labs for Second Life, but I guess there's just too much to complain about.:smileyembarrassed:

 

 

[Eloise Baily]

---

Eio Tuqiri wrote:

 

Darn!  Meant for this to be about thanking Linden Labs for Second Life, but I guess there's just too much to complain about.:smileyembarrassed:

 

There is if you can't give it up for even one day of the year, yeah. I suppose there is. Sheesh!

/me kicks a football above the trenches and chucks a Paul McCartney on the record player.

It's Christmas. At least attempt to lower yourselves to humanity's level?

 

 E.T.A.: This answer is not meant for you Eio, but for the Ebeneezers in the rest of the thread

---

 

[Phil Deakins]

---

Eloise Baily wrote:

 E.T.A.: This answer is not meant for you Eio, but for the Ebeneezers in the rest of the thread

---

I think you got the wrong thread.  I'm sure you meant that comment to be in the 'thank you for working on Christmas day' thread

[Phil Deakins]

It sounds like the results for "Upcoming Events" for "Show next 24 hours" are quite accurate. I can't think that there are more than 24 live music events in a 24 hour period.

 

[Qie Niangao]

---

Oh, and on secondlife.com?  It's WAY worse:

---

It's a different day, so I can't compare apples to apples, but I don't see anything like the cited results.

Is it possible that you weren't logged in on the search.secondlife.com window, and / or didn't include the "M" (and "A") maturity rating?  I get roughly comparable results with "G" only.

[Eio Tuqiri]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

It sounds like the results for 

"Upcoming Events" for "Show next 24 hours" are quite accurate. I can't think that there are more than 24 live music events in a 24 hour period.

 

---

Hi Phil,

If you check back to that post I also looked at inworld search for that day, which actually would be less than 24 hours, because it would stop at 12:00pm.  And here are the results.

With Phoenix which has the old search, for PG, M, and A ratings  with nothing put in the Find: window:

• Searching "Events" "Live Music" 265 listings
• Searching "Events" "Commercial" 72 listings

Ok, now same searches with Firestorm which has the new web based search:

• Searching "Events" "Live Music" 221 listings
• Searching "Events" "Commercial" 57 listings

I'm assuming that there are roughly 265 Live Music events inworld for each day.  There's a LOAD of live music happening in SL.  So if my assumption is correct, then not only do "old" and "new" Search show up with different results from each other, but "Upcoming Events" on my Dashboard at secondlife.com seems to be WAY short in its results.

[Eio Tuqiri]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Oh, and on secondlife.com?  It's WAY worse:

---

It's a different day, so I can't compare apples to apples, but I don't see anything like the cited results.

Is it possible that you weren't logged in on the search.secondlife.com window, and / or didn't include the "M" (and "A") maturity rating?  I get roughly comparable results with "G" only.

---

Hi Qie,

That's correct, I wasn't logged in on the search.secondlife.com window.  That is a different Search, comprable to the V2 or "new" web based search I sited results for.

The place I'm talking about is on your secondlife.com Dashboard, at the bottom of the page, "Upcoming Events".  The results there are very low.  And I don't see any place on the Dashboard to choose maturity ratings.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Eio Tuqiri wrote:

The place I'm talking about is on your secondlife.com Dashboard, at the bottom of the page, "Upcoming Events".  The results there are very low.  And I don't see any place on the Dashboard to choose maturity ratings.

---

Oh. Interesting. I never even noticed those before.  They do all seem to be G-rated, but they're only a subset of all the G-rated Live Music events listed in search.  Very odd.

[Maelstrom Janus]

Dont you just love these posts ...who's incharge of propaganda at Linden labs these days..someone seems to have been working overtime on it this christmas.....