amarock Amat Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Today, I am going to do a deal, we are running a contest of what LL may mess up on the update, the closer person , gets my ENTIRE jewelry ..**that is like 235 someodd stuff** Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 we were just talkin about this in the inworld Group Chat. I predict that LL Commerce will generate TWO JIRA's that will need immediate L attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 eeks whats this all about now? :matte-motes-stress: when's it go down? hmm... threat of major interruption, a big mess... i assume you're talking about Direct Delivery arriving soon?? i hope its smooth but guessing Lindens will not automate it conveniently forcing each one of us to do at least several hours (or even days) of non-creative labor. some kind of technical tedium grunt work we all must do (like manually creating & renaming hundreds of folders or some such) to transition all our stuff. *le sigh* :matte-motes-bored: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Brooke is playing her same tricks again like Sep's marketplace update... Tomorrow at 8am SLT LL commerce is bringing down the SLM for 2 hours and Brooke and team refuses to release any information as to exactly what is being updated tomorrow. SO.... here we go again Merchants!! Hang onto your magicboxes and prepare for the worst. I liquidated my $L account to near 0 today and I backed up my magicbox. Other then that there is nothing else I can do but hope that the bugs this update creates wont impact me too much. Again, my prediction is that 2 JIRAs will be directly generated from this update tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hmm .. not to contradict you Toy but .. "refuses to release any information"? http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2011/11/29/post1489/ I see both pre-release and "will edit after release" notes listed on that post. Granted, it does narrow to scope of amarock's contest constraints by (theoretically) setting the targets on the log for us, but even Daniel Boone sometimes missed a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 So Darrius, I read the same status and I went to the wiki that relates to the status.... What am I missing that you are seeing? Where is the list of things that this update tomorrow morning will fix? Please clip it out and paste it here in this thread what the change tomorro will be trying to fix? I dont see it. As far as I see, Brooke has done what she did on Sep 13th.... posted an announcement that there will be a change the next day to marketplace and look at the wiki for what "we" changed after we applied the change. So we merchants will have to scramble right after the change window to hunt down and figure out what part of the system LL changed to test if its still working. Just like we had to last time. instead of just telling us in the wiki BEFORE the change what they intend to fix. If we at least knew what LL was going to focus the changes on we could immediately check what they failed to fix and what new potential bugs they introduced. We know from history that the LL team cant test even the most basic of fixes or features they introduce (aka Sep 13th). So they need us to do their testing and find their bugs but we also have to do it in the dark. LL commerce seems to think this is some kind of perverse hid and seek game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ela Talaj Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Can you possibly cite an example of the Marketplace upgrade that affected in any way your or anyone else's dashboard L$ balance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 From the Wiki: Release Notes for Current BETA Marketplace Release November 3, 2011 (Minor bug fixes deployed on November 22, 2011) This release is scheduled for deployment on November 30, 2011 between 8am and 10 am SLT. Merchant Facing Fixes WEB-4150 Unlisted and unavailable incorrect WEB-4152 Fewer listings are shown per page than pagination settings should display WEB-4215 Manage inventory product count does not match actual listing count Searching by SKU code fully supported in manage inventory Updated user interface for manage inventory User Licensed is now an option for permissions Resident accounts must have a minimum age of 5 days to create a store (become a Merchant) NOTE: There are some active Direct Delivery listings that you can test purchase (most should have "DD:" in the title). This functionality will NOT be active as part of the next release, but please try it out if you would like. WEB-4150: UnListed & Unavailable Items Suddenly Incorrect Since Last Update WEB-4152: Fewer listings are shown per page than my pagination settings should display WEB-4215: Manage Inventory Product Count Does Not Match Actual Listing Count As for the last four bullets, the last one is an interesting (and previously to my knowledge unmentioned) tweak that will greatly lessen the obvious Botter Merchants that ripoff and sell over the weekend, then clean out and vanish before LL returns to work on Monday. (Of course it does just mean they'll create their fence account a week early but .. it's one more step they gotta remember to do.) Searching by SKU is something that has annoyed folks for a while. 'Bout damn time on that one. Updated User Interface ... is admittedly one of those phrases that makes my butt cheeks tense in well-learned defensive behavior. Yes this one needs a lot more detail. (They could of course just post their design notes and puppet screenshots to show what to expect ... assuming they planned this out beforehand of course.) And that last one ... "User Licensed" ... is an interestng phrase that I would hope has something to do with a couple JIRAs filed some time back requesting that a customer must approve a EULA before they can complete the purchase of a licensed product. Those JIRAs are: WEB-4085: 'I agree' button for creations that come with an eula WEB-2216: SL Marketplace: Please create an additional tab on the Product Detail page, for EULAs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I don't believe Toy is talking about actual errors in the displayed value, I believe he is referring to the downturn in expected revenues after each update. While it's not possible to calculate the difference exactly, anyone with some historical data and a bit of chart making expertise can point to clear dips in actual income versus what would have been statistically predicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I read that WIKI Darrius but you clipped that set of fixed from the wrong WIKI. Here is the link that you provided to the status and that we all read... Scheduled Marketplace Update [postED] 2:10PM PST 29, November 2011] There will be Marketplace downtime on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 from 8am -10am PST for a deploy. For release notes and details on where to check out this new release, please see the Marketplace Beta Release Notes. (Once the deploy is completed, the Production Release Notes will be updated.) Notice there are TWO release notes. You grabbed the list of fixed for the BETA GRID upgrade fixes that LL will be doing. I dont give a care about what changes LL will be making to the BETA grid. My business does not run on the Beta. Click on the link for the PRODUCTION RELEASE NOTES.... and tell me where the list of fixes are for the grid that matters most to us.... the PRODUCTION Marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Actually Darrius, I was referring to protecting anything within your control prior to LL Commerce making changes to the marketplace (which we often know they love to slide in changes to anything possibly related - including any financial systems). So as a precaution (and I dont care if LL has or has not impacted my account balance), there are only two things we merchants can do to reduce the risk / impact of LL's often screwed up changes.... Backup your MagicBoxes Liquidate your SL Account's $L Account balance to the lowest level possible which still allows you to operate. There is no danger in liquidating your account anyway - so why not take the precaution. As for my sales eroding since the changes Brooke's team has made to MP, I can show you via the number of time I liqidate my $L to $US over the past 1.5 years how Brooke's reign and recent set of changes (starting this early Aug) has aligned with my declining SL income. Dont have the numbers here now... but I will work on that just for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The section I clipped states specifically: "This release is scheduled for deployment on November 30, 2011 between 8am and 10 am SLT." These are the pre-release notes for the planned release today. Not only does the Grid Status post state that quite plainly ("For release notes and details on where to check out this new release, please see the Marketplace Beta Release Notes.") but the anticipated release time stated in the wiki page matches precisely with today's release downtime. Two points for, one against (and as we all know from reading far too many contracts, the section titles have absolutely no bearing on the meaning, intent or message of the explanatory text) ... therefore I believe they are following the advice given after the last major update by posting pre-release "what we intend" notes and, after the update, fix up the regular release notes and attend to any boo-boo's at that time. PS: By "boo-boo" I mean where they intended to release a specific feature, but because of whatever issues arise after release, that specific feature has been rolled back and not included in the "final" release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Darrius Gothly wrote: The section I clipped states specifically: "This release is scheduled for deployment on November 30, 2011 between 8am and 10 am SLT." These are the pre-release notes for the planned release today. Not only does the Grid Status post state that quite plainly ("For release notes and details on where to check out this new release, please see the Marketplace Beta Release Notes.") but the anticipated release time stated in the wiki page matches precisely with today's release downtime. Two points for, one against (and as we all know from reading far too many contracts, the section titles have absolutely no bearing on the meaning, intent or message of the explanatory text) ... therefore I believe they are following the advice given after the last major update by posting pre-release "what we intend" notes and, after the update, fix up the regular release notes and attend to any boo-boo's at that time. PS: By "boo-boo" I mean where they intended to release a specific feature, but because of whatever issues arise after release, that specific feature has been rolled back and not included in the "final" release. Sooooo..... what you are trying to say is.... If you can think like a Linden Commerce Team member who likes to communicate a thought in the same way that a pinball bounces around in a pinball machine and if you are smart enough to translate LL's incorrect misleading Blog / Wiki Titles and if you are a person that is good with legal contracts.... THEN YOU TOO CAN CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THE MESSAGES THAT LL IS TRYING TO TELL YOU. Come on Darrius. Are you going to stand here and tell me that Brooke's release notes on what is happening on today's changes was simple to find, follow, and understand? LL has more buckets of WIKI's than a beach has grains of sand and cross connects their website, blogs, JIRAs, and these countless WIKIs together like a bowl of spagetti. I think you should approach Brooke and ask to become their new communication VP. Your posts make sense. You can speak human. So fellow Merchants.... hold on to your Butt Cheeks.... here we go again. Another LL Commerce Marketplace Change Ride. Hopefully see you on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 and yet we still don't have the very important "Send email after a review is left" and "send email notify when an item is delisted". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 So Reading Darrius's list of changes that hits us in 10 minutes.... User Licensed is now an option for permissions Resident accounts must have a minimum age of 5 days to create a store (become a Merchant) What exactly is "user licensed" in my permissions? When did we ask for this in our backlog of things from LL Commerce Team to fix and focus on? There is a new permission to MOD COPY TRANS? Someone explain this high demand new feature?? What is the purpose for waiting 5 days to become a Merchant? Is this some lame deterrent to stop ... uhmmm... what? Help me out on this Sassy. You are normally aware of what LL Commerce might be thinking. And how did these two features bubble up to be a priority to deploy yet reporting is still a "never to deploy backburner feature"? EDITED Post: Another question to ask to the void since LL never answers questions in public.... Clearly someone in LL and some of the Merchant population are working together to 1) come up with their list of SLM fixes and new features, 2) set a priority that suits their specific needs. Who might be influencing LL to put development effort and resources towards these obscure features which I have never seen anyone in the general merchant community even ask for - much less scream to LL to deploy? Come on Brooke, who is influencing you on the weird priorities you set for your team to work on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 You're on a roll today. However, most of these were asked for (especially the EULA, permissions bits) for quite a long time. Most of the fixes in these lists were asked for by merchants. You can probably do some searching and pull up multiple threads on each where they were asked for, so they are indeed merchant requests and not primarily LL directives. If you've taken the Mesh Tutorial you'll know that Cathy and Jill and hypothetical friends are used as examples for whether a user agreement should be respected. Also, the Content Management Roadmap is an ancient document promising some work on some of these features (while a 5 day waiting period is not a cure, it's something in the right direction). I see Rachel is the reporter for the Eula one, and she left SL months ago (of course so did Brodesky, or is he still a contractor behind the scenes?). I remember partaking in threads for this one as a good idea, but that may have been on the old forum software, but right ... this is an older and "about time" fix. Looking over the Jira's you can see that if they weren't reported by a merchant, that they were agreed upon generally by other merchants in the Jira comments. And ... didn't you ask for and get a beta sandbox that you said was an industry standard? So now you've got beta that actually does meet your earlier complaints of no public beta, you've got your announcements ahead of time on changes and a list of fixes that's predominantly based on merchant requests. Can't help you understand beta, beta to production notes, when you were the one asking for these things. So confused whether you're complaining about the things you've gotten, what you haven't gotten or just the order in which you're getting them. Agreed with Sassy's bit, that email notification could have been higher on the priority list. Reporting? Eh, you know I'm huge on this one, but common sense says that an overhaul of the delivery system should come before you work on reporting deliveries under that new system. Maybe you should make your own priority list to show a better path. Then I wouldn't think you're complaining just to complain. You're making me break out in hives trying to resist the urge to advocate! But to answer who's influencing some of these decisions? It would seem you're one of the culprits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 You still didnt clearly explain this new USER LICENSE feature they are adding now. What is it. So we will now see on all prims a MOD COPY TRANS USERLICENSE permission option. If I click on this USER LICENSE permission what restriction will this apply to the prim or object vs MOD COPY TRANS? You seem to be deep into Mesh and as you are suggestion - this new feature is coming from Mesh. I would think this is a more fundamental change than what is needed in Marketplace. As for Beta testing (open beta testing), where in my posts here am i complaining that the DD Beta Grid Testing was an issue? Its great that the open beta grid is going to happen and that merchants can go in and find all of LL's DD bugs. What I was complaining about is exactly what I mentioned to Darrius.... F'ed Up LL COMMUNICATIONS! Their announcement of today's changes strongly implied (because of the titles of the BETA WIKI vs the MAIN WIKI) that the changes will be applied to the Beta grid of MP but that there was going to be changes applied to the Main MP but not clearly explained what the changes were. Thankfully Darrius - our resident LL Communications Interpreter helped convert LL Speak into what most humans can follow. As for a priority list of what LL Commerce is working on... this fits perfectly in place with my previous post's complaints.... if there are fixes, features, new functions on LL Commerce's priority list, show me a consolidated clear communication of this list. Features and fixes to SLM are dropping into LL Commerce's TODO Priority list but they are coming from countless sources. You say "ohhh if you only would have been part of this group or this initiative or followed this JIRA or read this blog or read this forum thead from 2009 or or or or or.... then of course we all were asking for this". Come on Dart.... other than possible you and Darrius and a couple other rare Merchants of SL that seem to partake in EVERYTHING that LL development teams are involved in, 99% of Merchants dont. What SLM Merchants could follow is a single list of LL Commerce fixes, features, functions, initiatives on LL Commerce's radar and a possible ETA or priority of each. If you are going to say that this is too complex to create.... then WTF list is Brooke following? Clearly she knows the list and is following it.... PUBLISH IT ! Damn rights I am on a roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Taking it at face value to mean a tab where you can put a EULA that has an "I Agree" button that you need to click before purchasing. Or maybe they think it's enough that the button is there and it's optional. Doubtful but hopeful that this extends to functionality in the in-world permissions system, that would be a great bonus, at least to me. Good questions though, but I didn't take it as particularly unclear. Maybe if it's not clear later someone from the team will jump in and answer that in more detail. For the record, I'm not a huge contributor, I just try to keep up here and there, and I tend to be read-only on Jira's. I know I can handle them, but something about expecting your userbase to contribute to the level of learning Jira and filling out bug reports like it's a day job kind of doesn't sit well with me. I'm not a crowd to be sourced, I'm just a customer. But I do see feedback from the forums, answers and other sources heard too. Nothing wrong with listening to many people from many sources. [.... After the update ... ] So much for "I Agree", but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Dartagan Shepherd wrote: But I do see feedback from the forums, answers and other sources heard too. Nothing wrong with listening to many people from many sources. Agreed, then what you do is form a plan and communicate it with the major stakeholders. I'm just not sure who that happens to be considered to be? You'd think the Marketplace stakeholders would be the customers and crucially the merchants but it seems not. I can't think that anyone at LL is *really* a major stakeholder. Nope, i've just checked my Project Management references and the CEO isn't the major stakeholder here. It really wouldn't hurt to say "Thank you for all the feedback you provide on a regular basis, your thoughts are wide and varied and clearly quite passionate. We've consolidated your thoughts and it would appear that the issues of major concern are the following <list> and we plan to do <insert actions> in order to address these. There are some features that are outside the present scope and resources, these being <list of exceptions>. Does this seem sensible to you?" I just don't understand why this all happens in such a cloaked way then up pops some solutions as a "here you are!" when clearly some of the things asked for have been requested as priorities for over a year and not a peep about them. Where's the filter for the new shiny thing called MESH on MP? I can list an object as being Mesh but I can't search for products that are only mesh? Yet I can do that for other permissions. Go figure. Trivial UI change, equally trivial SQL query to implement it. Ho hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Sassy Romano wrote: Dartagan Shepherd wrote: But I do see feedback from the forums, answers and other sources heard too. Nothing wrong with listening to many people from many sources. Agreed, then what you do is form a plan and communicate it with the major stakeholders. I'm just not sure who that happens to be considered to be? You'd think the Marketplace stakeholders would be the customers and crucially the merchants but it seems not. I can't think that anyone at LL is *really* a major stakeholder. Nope, i've just checked my Project Management references and the CEO isn't the major stakeholder here. It really wouldn't hurt to say "Thank you for all the feedback you provide on a regular basis, your thoughts are wide and varied and clearly quite passionate. We've consolidated your thoughts and it would appear that the issues of major concern are the following <list> and we plan to do <insert actions> in order to address these. There are some features that are outside the present scope and resources, these being <list of exceptions>. Does this seem sensible to you?" I just don't understand why this all happens in such a cloaked way then up pops some solutions as a "here you are!" when clearly some of the things asked for have been requested as priorities for over a year and not a peep about them. Where's the filter for the new shiny thing called MESH on MP? I can list an object as being Mesh but I can't search for products that are only mesh? Yet I can do that for other permissions. Go figure. Trivial UI change, equally trivial SQL query to implement it. Ho hum. I knew there was a reason i loved you Sassy. Toy's 1000% approval and support on this way of any company / IS operation - including LL Commerce - of collecting and communicating their plans and roadmap. and yes... an I.S. group IS NOT a stakeholder. A customer or a company's representative for the customer would be the stakeholder. Not that Brooke truly understands the life of a merchant but I suspect Brooke believes she can be the Merchant's Spokesperson and speak on behalf of all of us.... even though that would involve the Spokesperson fully understanding the business and collecting the feedback from those he/she is representing. Brooke does not do this so clearly she is not a stakeholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Oh, I agree ... much more attention needed to funneling merchant priorities rather than the next big Lab idea. Things will take their naturual successful course, an SL market is a sure fire win if the people that use the system have what they need and majority ask for. Was watching the latest WoW release for the last months, that was released yesterday. Amazing methodology, from beta, to multiple articles on the changes that were still months away to non-beta participants. Big announcements, screen shots and precision-clear articles of what the changes entailed. A thing of beauty and that's how it's done. So lots of room for improvement in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Someone please boil it down for me. If my items are already copy-mod-transfer and most of them have the sculpt and surface data full perms on the contents tab, what - for me - is the difference between clicking and not clicking the "user licensed" button? I'm not even clear on whether it means licensed BY user or licensed TO user, and whether the user in question is the buyer or the seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 It's simply a way for you as the Merchant Seller to explicitly state what the customer may and may not do with the items they receive .. and require the customer to agree to those conditions before the product will be delivered. It eliminates the "I included the full end-user rights on a notecard and it was your responsibility to read it" versus "I didn't receive the end-user rights notecard in the delivered items and since I didn't know it was supposed to be there, I didn't notice it was missing either .. so I never read your precious end-user rights notecard" argument (AKA Us vs. Them) It also means that the customer has a timestamped printable copy of the end-user rights they are specifically expecting in the package. The customer can print out the rights listed and have a permanent copy of the allowed and disallowed uses for the product. This protects them from an unscrupulous merchant down the road changing the end-user rights and then demaning that prior sales also meet the "new" rules. It's a Confusion Dissipator .. k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarock Amat Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 *coughs* this was a contest, not a chat group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 *sigh* Picky, picky, picky ... *grin* I'm putting my money on them failing to get the new listings per page calculation exactly right. However I believe it will take 2-3 days before the actual chain of events required to replicate the error will be uncovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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