Harper Held Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 JeanneAnne wrote Thanks not just for turning me on2 bronxelf's Summary Thread of the JLU affair, but for alerting me to the existence of SLUniverse forum. Now that you know where we are --come join us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 JeanneAnne wrote: Ceka Cianci wrote: Jeanneanne be very careful of what you type because of the forums rules ..we can't really go into detail on these forums like we can in others.. Ok Ceka, thanks for the heads-up. I'm now to the point where Scotland Yard & the CIA are behind it all! Which makes me think that there are paranoid schizophrenics loose in SL, wearing spandex!!! :smileyvery-happy: Seriously, tho... some of this is very disturbing. Jeanne omg i forgot about that LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Canoro Philipp wrote: i agree, the idea of forming those organizations can be with good intentions, but they can get corrupted, sadly, thats a truth. but luckily, not all organizations that their purpose is to benefit society are corrupted. i agree there are some..i think the best ones are the ones that educate the user.. not the ones that want to be the weapon for them.. arm the user so they can protect themselves.. and i mean that in the sense of making them more powerful by being more aware of SL and it's good and bad things and ways to deal with them when they encounter them.. inform them of places that they may not run into griefers as much as some other places.. also how to avoid scans and and scams and any info like that that can help them out.. the way we get the grid dealing with griefers and all the rest of the bad that is just waiting for them.. is to help the people new to the grid get educated faster on how to deal with them and the many other problems they may face.. this way people won't feel the need for a crutch like these griefer groups trying to pass themselves off as justice for the grid.. no user should be cop,judge, jury and exicutioner to any other user..and no user should have to have that imposed on them either.. mind over matter hehehe *winks* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammantha Koppel Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Canoro Philipp wrote: JLU and Unions are forms of organization that their purpose is to protect the weak against abuse. i agree that some of those organization dont use the best methods, but at least they are doing something. the more people get together for that noble purpose, the better. im up for anything that fill that hole in second life. Doing something is not always better than doing nothing. Would it not be better to teach "the weak" ways to be stronger? Why not empower them so that they will not always be victims? If JLU goes after their (alleged) abuser, the abused remain victims and learn to be dependent on others to come to their rescue. Who decides if there is abuse or not? Do these organizations accept (alleged) victims at their word? Just because someone gets their feelings hurt or ends up on the losing end of a transaction, doesn't mean they are abused. From what I've read so far, it appears that organizations like JLU hold themselves above the law. They are reactionary vigilantes, bullies and abusers themselves. Instead of resorting to asking for the assistance of such groups, people who find themselves victimized have other options. Follow SL's guidelines and use the AR feature when appropriate. Surround oneself with trusted friends for support. Research large purchases ahead of time. Empower oneself with knowledge. Sending a band of power-happy, self-appointed police after someone is usually not the best course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imnotgoing Sideways Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ask me about "Hazardous Liaison". () Given I've dealt with a number of groups which add people they simply disagree with to a "griefer" list, I see no good coming from any resident ventures in security and governance. (=_=) Solution: Write your own ARs and let the Lindens sort it out. ()y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 OK. that assumes the original person voluntarily made a SL-to-RL connection for one or more persons and said persons believe that information to be true. I wonder how they test the veracity of the information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imnotgoing Sideways Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Canoro Philipp wrote: JLU and Unions are forms of organization that their purpose is to protect the weak against abuse. i agree that some of those organization dont use the best methods, but at least they are doing something. the more people get together for that noble purpose, the better. im up for anything that fill that hole in second life. No. JLU is a fraudulent, self-serving, and corrupt organization who abuses more people than they appear to "protect". In fact, they protect nobody and often put a lot of effort into convincing other people that they would have been griefed if the group weren't around... In spite of a lack of truly identified griefers or an interest by said griefers in targeting anyone other than JLU. (=_=) "At least they are doing something" is a very very very very dangerous point of view. Especially when their activities are akin to bludgeoning everyone who walks down the street and they just so happen to hit a pickpocket every few days. (=_=) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The JLU and their kind were not wanted or needed in 2004/5/6 (2006 is when the JLU formed). The JLU and their kind are not wanted or needed now. I have never been banned, suspended or even received a warning in the 7 years I have been in SL. They have no reason to have any of my RL information. I did not give them any of my information. They did not, do not, and never will have my expressed permission to obtain my information or be in possession of it, or retain it.. They did not inform me of their information practices before any information was collected. They do not have any information practices in place or publicly available. They did not inform me of the nature of the data collected and the means by which it was collected. They did not provide me with the identification of any potential recipients of the data. They did not provide me with any options to control how my data is used. They do not have a consent process in place. They did not provide me with the ability to view the data collected, or to verify and contest its accuracy. They have not kept the data secure. Groups such as JLU, **PD**, Gridwatch etc. have no place in SL. I am sure that now I have finally spoken up about it I will be added to their database as a griefer just as they have done to countless others who are not and never have been griefers. When a group adds someone to a "griefer database" as a griefer for posting a picture on a non SL site not only have they taken it too far, they are out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: OK. that assumes the original person voluntarily made a SL-to-RL connection for one or more persons and said persons believe that information to be true. I wonder how they test the veracity of the information? what it shows is they will gather it and collect it and use it if they can..thats enough for me to be leery of them.. it's the thought that counts in this case.. and this is assuming that google were their only way to get any information..i'm not saying they have other ways or not..i'm just saying if given the chance they would use what they have to get what they can.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I understand Ceka. I am suggesting that most of the information they may have assembled on any one person could be littered with inaccuracies. Even collection agencies work very hard to make sure the person with whom they are talking is, indeed, the one that owes money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ceka Cianci wrote: Canoro Philipp wrote: i agree, the idea of forming those organizations can be with good intentions, but they can get corrupted, sadly, thats a truth. but luckily, not all organizations that their purpose is to benefit society are corrupted. i agree there are some..i think the best ones are the ones that educate the user.. not the ones that want to be the weapon for them.. arm the user so they can protect themselves.. and i mean that in the sense of making them more powerful by being more aware of SL and it's good and bad things and ways to deal with them when they encounter them.. inform them of places that they may not run into griefers as much as some other places.. also how to avoid scans and and scams and any info like that that can help them out.. the way we get the grid dealing with griefers and all the rest of the bad that is just waiting for them.. is to help the people new to the grid get educated faster on how to deal with them and the many other problems they may face.. this way people won't feel the need for a crutch like these griefer groups trying to pass themselves off as justice for the grid.. no user should be cop,judge, jury and exicutioner to any other user..and no user should have to have that imposed on them either.. mind over matter hehehe *winks* This is the best post I've read on these fora, Ceka. Kudos! to you for it. :smileywink: You know what bothers me most about all this? What bothers me most is that all this creepy vigilantism, this cyberstalking of people, this using music stream to rip IP addresses, this collecting of RL data, this delusional paranoia, this activity that borders on if not actually violates criminal law ... seems to be tolerated and condoned - if not actively encouraged & supported - by the "Godz." What is up with that?!? Given all this, people can still support corporatism and dogpile on me for calling for SL to be run as a members owned & operated non-profit democracy? What is wrong with people, anyway? Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Imnotgoing Sideways wrote: Canoro Philipp wrote: JLU and Unions are forms of organization that their purpose is to protect the weak against abuse. i agree that some of those organization dont use the best methods, but at least they are doing something. the more people get together for that noble purpose, the better. im up for anything that fill that hole in second life. No. JLU is a fraudulent, self-serving, and corrupt organization who abuses more people than they appear to "protect". In fact, they protect nobody and often put a lot of effort into convincing other people that they would have been griefed if the group weren't around... In spite of a lack of truly identified griefers or an interest by said griefers in targeting anyone other than JLU. (=_=) "At least they are doing something" is a very very very very dangerous point of view. Especially when their activities are akin to bludgeoning everyone who walks down the street and they just so happen to hit a pickpocket every few days. (=_=) So why are they tolerated? That's what I'd like to know... Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: I understand Ceka. I am suggesting that most of the information they may have assembled on any one person could be littered with inaccuracies. Even collection agencies work very hard to make sure the person with whom they are talking is, indeed, the one that owes money. oh i understand what you mean by that..and ya i am sure they have a lot of bad information.. this is what makes them useless as a help to the grid..and even more of a danger to someones RL.. we know they have solid information as well on a lot of people that is mixed with bad information.. a lot of that solid information is facebook pages and rl phone numbers to their college or work or home ect..a lot of scarey information like that then reading things about how they are going to call or have called these places and all it took or would take is this certain information they give to these bosses or whoever and they would be finished or lose their job or get kicked out of college ect.. these people are messing with peoples RL's over stuff that happens in a virtual world and feeling they are doing right and good for the people of SL Oo i used to think the creator of redzone was a bad guy..he was ..but he was nothing compared to these guys after i found out things that i never thought would go on in the grid.. i was offended by that whole RZ mess and what that creator was doing..but what i have seen that has gone on since the time i had gotten here from these groups..just really sends me through the roof.. these are not things that are rumors..these are things that have been brought out into the light for all to see.. there is all kinds of information on the other side of the street where we won't get banned for going into more details about these kinds of groups.. i'd like to go into more detail..but those groups are just not worth the ban..hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: I understand Ceka. I am suggesting that most of the information they may have assembled on any one person could be littered with inaccuracies. Even collection agencies work very hard to make sure the person with whom they are talking is, indeed, the one that owes money. I spent the entire morning reading just the Summary! If even a fraction of what's reported there is true - and a lot of it sure seems to be - then it ought to go beyond civil law suits. Criminal charges ought to be brought. Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 JeanneAnne wrote: Ceka Cianci wrote: Canoro Philipp wrote: i agree, the idea of forming those organizations can be with good intentions, but they can get corrupted, sadly, thats a truth. but luckily, not all organizations that their purpose is to benefit society are corrupted. i agree there are some..i think the best ones are the ones that educate the user.. not the ones that want to be the weapon for them.. arm the user so they can protect themselves.. and i mean that in the sense of making them more powerful by being more aware of SL and it's good and bad things and ways to deal with them when they encounter them.. inform them of places that they may not run into griefers as much as some other places.. also how to avoid scans and and scams and any info like that that can help them out.. the way we get the grid dealing with griefers and all the rest of the bad that is just waiting for them.. is to help the people new to the grid get educated faster on how to deal with them and the many other problems they may face.. this way people won't feel the need for a crutch like these griefer groups trying to pass themselves off as justice for the grid.. no user should be cop,judge, jury and exicutioner to any other user..and no user should have to have that imposed on them either.. mind over matter hehehe *winks* This is the best post I've read on these fora, Ceka. Kudos! to you for it. :smileywink: You know what bothers me most about all this? What bothers me most is that all this creepy vigilantism, this cyberstalking of people, this using music stream to rip IP addresses, this collecting of RL data, this delusional paranoia, this activity that borders on if not actually violates criminal law ... seems to be tolerated and condoned - if not actively encouraged & supported - by the "Godz." What is up with that?!? Given all this, people can still support corporatism and dogpile on me for calling for SL to be run as a members owned & operated non-profit democracy? What is wrong with people, anyway? Jeanne well for the people as far as why they tolerate it..a lot of them don't know about it.. as far as the gods..a lot of that will show up as you read on.. we're sposed to be hearing an announcement of some kind ..well it was sposed to be last month ..but we're just hoping it's over due and still coming.. fingers are crossed hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imnotgoing Sideways Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 JeanneAnne wrote: So why are they tolerated? That's what I'd like to know... Jeanne Primarily because their most superficial operations fit within the bounds of the TOS/CS. (>_<) It has already been made rather public that they had a few Labbies that they could turn to in order to deal with tight situaions. Other than that, really, they're ~not~ tolerated. I've been a vocal opponent to their activities for a long time which only grew stronger after i found that they were monitoring me, had a wiki page in my name, and flagged me as a "griefer" in their networked security system. Many others have been in my position. The key problem is that so many people get flagged as "griefer" and the exopanty mob has no scrouples against abusing the AR system by filing mass reports against someone. (=_=) AR parties FTL!!! (>_<) They called me "griefer" but I won't let that fly. Being that I have never been suspended and hold no hsitory of any actual griefing or harassment events. And, I'm sure they've AR'd me on a few occasions. But, since LL values our privacy (which I'm thankful for) I can only assume. (>_<) So, there they are, ready and willing to accuse someone with no griefing history, no bans, no suspensions, premium account holding, estate owning, inworld educator of being a "griefer" and categorized under "Hazardous Liaison". It's going to be insanely difficult to convince me to trust them with anything. (=_=) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 The announcement was supposed to have occured at the end of October. It hasn't happened yet so I won't be holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imnotgoing Sideways Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 JeanneAnne wrote: Venus Petrov wrote: I understand Ceka. I am suggesting that most of the information they may have assembled on any one person could be littered with inaccuracies. Even collection agencies work very hard to make sure the person with whom they are talking is, indeed, the one that owes money. I spent the entire morning reading just the Summary! If even a fraction of what's reported there is true - and a lot of it sure seems to be - then it ought to go beyond civil law suits. Criminal charges ought to be brought. Jeanne Believe me... Once I can get any one of them to corroborate the claims they have about me in their wiki, I will take legal action. But, to date, they beat around the bush, refuse to respond, divert attentions, and pretend that the information listed about me has been doctored before it had been leaked. (>_<) Ever see that scene which happens in nearly every TV news consumer advocate program... When the fraud/thief is seen being chased by the news camera while running away, locking doors, requesting they leave, and having nothing to say? That's the current state the exopanty mob has been in since this leak got so far. () Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanneAnne Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ceka Cianci wrote: well for the people as far as why they tolerate it..a lot of them don't know about it.. as far as the gods..a lot of that will show up as you read on.. we're sposed to be hearing an announcement of some kind ..well it was sposed to be last month ..but we're just hoping it's over due and still coming.. fingers are crossed hehehehe You know, three months ago I'd never even heard of Second Life. Two days ago I'd never even heard of this SL "Justice League." I've hardly been around long enuf, or know enuf, to have a very well formed opinion about all of this. I thot that SL was supposed to be fun. I thought that the worst that could happen was that some creepy dom guy tried to put a collar on me, or a vampire tried to bite me. Today has sure been an eye opener! Now I learn that my IP address can be ripped from a music stream, that there are these paranoid crazies who think they are superheros who collect real life data about people and use it to try to get them banned from SL, kicked out of school or fired from their RL jobs. I learn that there may have been cooperation in all this cyberstalking by at least one or two of the Gods (see the "Soft Wars" posts) and at the very least, it's been tolerated. I learn that an official statement was supposed to have been forthcoming last month but has yet to be released. I wonder why not? Could it be that there are people passing bricks over all this? Could it be that real fear is rampant over the possibility that once charges are filed and publicity about all this hits the internet, and people come to realize that private RL information about them has been collected and compromised, SL is done for? I sure hope not! I've been having too much fun to want to see SL go by the wayside. But you know, folks? if even a tenth of the allegations are true, this is really serious. And you know something else? This having to talk around the issues, & talk in code, for fear of being censored, is ridiculous. I'm switching to SLU. Jeanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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