TOS disclaimer stating they have permission to share... is that valid?

[AmbrosialBliss]

If a person posts on their profile a TOS disclaimer stating they have permission to share messages by YOU messaging them or responding to IMs ... is that valid permission?  I know in the Community standards it says NO without their permission BUT if they message with that being stated openly is that not them giving their permission?  

Here is something i have seen on MANY profiles so wanted to check the validity to make sure.

......................

All IMs are logged/recorded.  By YOU messaging or responding to ME you are giving ME consent/permission for the conversation/s to be shared.

.....................

Amb

[valerie Inshan]

Assuming the persons responding to such IMs did read correctly the profile, I assume it could be considered as a tacit consent. My question is why would one want to record every IM he receives unless he's a merchant needing to keep track of his business conversations? Such a statement in a profile would certainly refrain me from answering unless it has something to do with a store I'm familiar with. :smileyindifferent:

[Rolig Loon]

I'm no lawyer and I never wanted to be one.  However, it seems to me that a competent lawyer could poke several holes in that practice.  The TOS sets the overriding rule here, and I doubt that any individual can unilaterally declare a less restrictive rule ("If you use IM, then you are tacitly giving away your right to privacy.").  Furthermore, much (most?) or the time when you IM a person, you do not see his Profile and thus will not see a disclaimer.  Therefore, I doubt that posting a note in your own profile amounts to a valid public notice.  It's closer to what's known as "entrapment."  Third, a person who "agrees" to such a disclaimer is giving away unrestricted rights --- a very broad waiver.  Those IMs could be shared with anyone for any purpose at any time.  I suspect that a brief note that does not include a warning and gives you no opportunity to negotiate a limited waiver would be considered something like phishing.  Given enough time, I could probably come up with other arguments, but as I say, I'm no lawyer. 

[Charolotte Caxton]

No. That is not legit because I would have to read the profile before messaging that person. If I had to read the profile before messaging that person, then it could be implied that I gave consent, but even then I would have to do something that shows I read that clause for it to be legally binding, such as an I Agree button or similar feature.

As it is, the reading of profiles is not a requirement to message someone and therefore it is a violation of my right to a reasonable amount of privacy as far as my IMs being shared without my explicit consent.

Regardless, this being a digital environment, no level of privacy is to be expected.  

[Baloo Uriza]

Nope, they're sorely deluded if they think something they put in their profile unilaterally renegotiates the contract LL has with the rest of it's userbase.

[Marigold Devin]

Welcome to Second Life Answers, Amb

I see this often, a person declaring on their profiles that by speaking with them this automatically gives them permission to share messages. It doesn't within Second Life; it is a breech of the Terms of Service for a person to repeat a private conversation with a third party. However, if this clause in the ToS is violated, the most I've known LL do is give out a warning.

People often post private conversations outside of Second Life, on personal blog sites.

Personally, I avoid even talking to people who have such a clause on their profiles. They have a tendency to be looking for "drama".

 



[Baloo Uriza]

I actually see people get 3-day bans for this pretty often in the busier welcome areas.

[Marigold Devin]

Well, whoopee doo. What's a 3-day ban in the big scheme of things? Almost worth spreading gossip if a person is *that* way inclined. (I hate those "welcome" areas, and feel a whole lot of people who linger round them doing nothing but grief newbies should be banned forever! - but *smiles* I'm not a Linden and my opinion in this matter does not count of course).

Thanks for the input, Baloo.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Simply put, it's not legal for anyone to over ride a rule (or law) explicitly stated........as Linden Lab has explicitly (and clearly) stated in the Terms of Service.  Sort of like you putting a bumper sticker on your car saying "If you pass me, I have the right to play bumper tag with you".  It's against the vehicle law to "play bumper tag with someone else's car".........no one can arbitrarily change that law to suit that person's fancy.

[Dahlia Endsleigh]

Personally, those people make me laugh..and I have this exact quote for my rebuttle...

 

"This is a disclaimer to void your ToS disclaimer whether you read it or not. And if you try to void my disclaimer of your disclaimer, then I void your disclaimer voiding my disclaimer voiding your disclaimer. I further make it impossible for your disclaimer of my disclaimer to void your disclaimer able to void my disclaimer.

I am clearly stating that you do not have my permission to disclose any chat or voice conversations involving me without my prior consent.* Disclaimer valid even if you have read but not necessarily understood said disclaimer."

[Charolotte Caxton]

lol

[Caden Lighthouse]

Definitely just a waste of a profile pick, as everyone has said it violates the overall TOS set by LL.

I've only ever heard one person ever explain their reasoning for putting it in. That was because some viewers (at one point even LL's viewer) automatically LOGS your IMs on your hard drive by default.

Which means that you'd have to KNOW that it does this and also then disable the viewers ability to do this.

IF your IM window has a button labelled 'History' click it.. if it brings up more than what shows in the IM window, you are logging IMs.. Heck, if you log in and when you IM a friend, it shows any previous IM conversation.. that coversation was logged..

this message was brought to you by Aldus Huxley

[Charolotte Caxton]

The official viewer logs ims by default. Me > Preferences > Privacy.

[Ye11Solo]

It is not against the ToS to record logs - there is a facility in Preferences to help you do that - it is against the ToS to share those logs with anyone else (and that means your partner or bff)  without prior consent

It appears those that have this "disclaimer" in their profiles usually also have something about hating drama and haters.  It's very indicative of who they are.