Moo Spyker Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Well new main SL client update and they changed the whole wording system for prims and PE now to...."land impact"... "remaining capacity"...Seriously? Thats the best you buys could come up with? How about just keep it "prims"...? Try having a conversation with the new names:"Hey bob check out my new build its only 10 P... uhmmm land impact? no thats not right... 10....... capacity? 10... impact? impact of 10?"or........... "10 prims!"yeah doesnt work. The original idea of "prim equivs" made no sense because it made it sound like this mesh item would be this many prims if it was made with prims but its actually only this many "prims". Forget all that crap and just call it "prims" it works. Also EVERYONE already knows a prim is 1 prim. regardless of it being mesh or whatever when you say "this mesh is 10 prims" it makes sense... no need to make a new word or system 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poenald Palen Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I know this sounds wierd, but I think they change things because they like change! SL is new, so...it changes. People talk about the changes, some leave and hate change...but they leave anyway. Maybe it sort of creates a history and maybe they figure all of the older people will figure it out, they are already building and will simply get used to it. The newer people might learn it faster and it might actually make sense, because they where not around when prims where simply primitive shapes and there was no 'sculpting' of those shapes via a UV map....which is sort of a meta deal in a way....but then again, it did use a prim topography as a base to...blah blah blah...basically: Old people will grumble about change anwyay, so this is like 10% more and will pass. New people don't care about old timers wanting to see the word "prim," they don't know what it is and don't care! In reality though....they should have planned for a full mesh of some kind in the future and simply gace each item an 'impact' number. This way they where not stuck with a build using all cubes being equal to a torus based build...the torus has more to draw for a graphic card. So, prims was not well thought out but was in the spirit of keeping it all flat rate and simple enough. I keep thinking the same will happen with sims, they will make more offerings, sizes or another way of billing people...but this seems to be sticking where it is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Starsider Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 So what do you suggest they call it? I actually think both 'land impact' and 'prim equivalence' makes sense. The impact of a mesh on the lands prim allowance is equal to x number of prims. - Luc - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Radek Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Did you even bother in read the article explaining the new feature? Is not that hard. Prims have not disappeared, it is still with us and it means the same. They just have added more options to provide creators (that care about do a good performance in their creations) more data that inform about how efficient is an object. This tool should have given us years ago. It will be useful to help newbie and irresponsible creators do laggy-friendly stuff. If you are a creator and dont care about it just dont look at it, a lot of people do, thats why there are tiny jewelry with hundreds of sculpts and thousand of polys. But if you really dont care dont come here complaining about "how laggy is sl lately, LL fault". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwakkelde Kwak Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 How can you not look at it when it's in your face every time you open the edit window? We could see how many prims were in a linkset or in a selection before, now we see that aswell, only with different words..that's just dumb. Not to mention the fact that you can't see how many linked meshes are in a linkset anylonger, the edit window will only give you the amount of objects, one, and the number taken from the available prims, not the actual amount of objects linked. I'd like to be able to see how many objects are linked, we could see it until today. I like the addition of "remaining capacity" btw. filed a JIRA about this JIRA VWR-27203 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Uriza Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The measure of units is still prim equivalence, the wording was changed because it's more clear to tell what it impacts with the new wording. You fail at semantics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Uriza Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 LL doesn't change things without a business need. If people want it, it'll change. If it's generating a lot of support tickets, it'll change. Things businesses are unlikely to react to are rage and derp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arton Rotaru Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Kwakkelde Kwak wrote: How can you not look at it when it's in your face every time you open the edit window? We could see how many prims were in a linkset or in a selection before, now we see that aswell, only with different words..that's just dumb. Not to mention the fact that you can't see how many linked meshes are in a linkset anylonger, the edit window will only give you the amount of objects, one, and the number taken from the available prims, not the actual amount of objects linked. I'd like to be able to see how many objects are linked, we could see it until today. I like the addition of "remaining capacity" btw. filed a JIRA about this JIRA VWR-27203 Just click the "More Info" link in the edit floater. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Spyker Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Lets hear someone use it in a casual conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Starsider Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 "Hey Bob! Check out my new build. It uses only 10 prims!". - Luc - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwakkelde Kwak Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 @Arton I've rolled back to V3.0 for now, for several reasons, but if that is the case, I'm happy some people give useful answers..thanks! EDIT installed 3.1.0 again to make sure I wasn't talking nonsense in the JIRA...I guess I need to get me some glasses, 100% right, it's in the extra window. No idea how I missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arton Rotaru Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think it's rather easy to miss that link (or to know for what it is good for) in 1st place. Though, I still use the latest Mesh Dev Viewer most of the times, and the 'land impact' UI is in it for about 2 month now. So that was something I already discovered a while back. :smileyhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Radek Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 My reply yesterday was a little bitter, sorry about that. I'm getting tired of seeing people complaining about any new change before even know if it is good or not. ..I agree.. maybe ll puts features sunddenly with poor or inexistent explanations. Yesterday (before complaint) i was trying to figure out how this new stuff works reading the information provided on the wiki, but i found it dont explain lots details, and dont give an idea of how useful could be this for residents. Asking around SLU forum some advanced users gave me an idea of what this means. This is not a fail at all and this dont break any content. I will give an example: You did a 23 prims chair on 2003 using just prims, you rebuild it on 2006 using sculpt and you got 16 prims. If you rezz those chairs today you will notice that the "weight" on the parcel its the same but if have different name 23 LI (land impact) instead of 23 prims and 16 LI instead of 16 prims. If you click "More Info" button while editing both chairs you dont get information on downloads, physics, server and display weights. What the different then? If you upload a mesh, or change the physics shape type other than prim shape (of a prim) you will be able to get this info. So what is this information for? It will let builders get accurate values of what they are building, will be much easier make efficient less laggy & less primy content: If you use a texture with medium or low resolution you will get less "prims" or less Land impact than with a high one, if you use 1 script instead of 8: same result, if you use a simple physics shape instead of a complicated one: same result. Makes sense the term Land Impact now? "Land impact" involves all those values, "Prims" are just.. boxes. Once we will get use to it, this little world will be bit better getting efficient and less laggy stuff from creators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Spyker Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 "Asking around SLU forum some advanced users gave me an idea of what this means." just a FYI I am a "advanced user" I'm in SL building 10-12 hours a day because this is my job and source of income. The only thing this new addition did was add more work for builders. Previously all the info in the "more info" button was already displayed right below the prim and PE counts if you enabled "ShowAdvancedBuilderOptions". That option is simply removed from the new update so now to view critical info we are required to click more info and even have to wait for little spinning loading icons before viewing the information... when before it was instantly displayed. 3D programs for building and creating are about one thing, work flow. Work flow means fast and efficent. What LL did here was disrupt the work flow of creating in SL by adding this "more info" button. All critical info was already displayed. Why people in charge of building tools who have never even built is beyond me. The original point of this thread was just the name choice of "Land Impact". Sounds stupid and only one person here used it in a casual conversation. I still have yet to figure out what to call it. The last post here used it as "LI". I still say "prims" works universally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da5id Weatherwax Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Let me correct one point: changing the # of scripts has no effect on land impact unless it is removing them ALL. Your object is either scripted or not, and if its scripted will have a higher server cost. However, if it IS scripted it doesnt matter at all to the server cost component of land impact whether it has one script or 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Spyker Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Incorrect. If your download is lower then then 1. Adding a script will round it up to 1. So in certain examples it can have a drastic effect. For example a linkset of 50 0.5 download cost mesh adding a script to the linkset would increase the cost from 25 to 50. If the download cost is greater or equal to 1 then it has no effect on cost. What does this have to do with this topic anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Anatine Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I thought PE was fairly self-explanatory myself and do not understand why the change to LI (one would think newcomers will be able to grasp, more quickly, the meaning behind PE over LI). This announcement from LL heralds only new verbiage, does not change the math behind the PE/LI. In the end, all we really care about is how many "prims" an item will use while on our land. prims = PE = LI; why not use PE which uses the key word, "prim"? Ahhh well. Perhaps LL is shifting the language and this is the beginning? Or will they be changing even more besides? As an aside, I was rather hoping for an announcement from LL with more reasonable and encouraging math algorithims behind the prim calculation. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Radek Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 To be sincere. I am a noob builder since 2007, i dont use beta viewers so often and this is the first time i see this information provided. I am just trying to figure out this, and probably i am completely wrong.. but i understand better the weight of an object talking in "land impact". "P.E." was a good word too, but just "prims".. dont reflect all the meaning behind. I like the change, but what i dont understand exactly is why they named first PE and later LI. Is normal if people get confused. In my opinion the name is not that important, the point is that this feature is good to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da5id Weatherwax Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Moo Spyker wrote: Incorrect. If your download is lower then then 1. Adding a script will round it up to 1. So in certain examples it can have a drastic effect. For example a linkset of 50 0.5 download cost mesh adding a script to the linkset would increase the cost from 25 to 50. If the download cost is greater or equal to 1 then it has no effect on cost. What does this have to do with this topic anyways? I was responding to a comment above that mentioned "using one script instead of 8" changing land impact, and my correction was to that. I did indeed say the difference would come between "scripted" and "not scripted" as you point out here rather than from any consideration of changes in the nonzero script count. That was, in fact, precisely my point I made no statement about the magnitude of the change in server weight, which you correctly point out can be quite significant depending on exactly how the linkset is constructed. I was simply pointing out that adding or removing scripts in an already scripted object makes no difference, just as it makes no difference whether a physical object is scripted or not, since physicality invokes the exact same penalty to server weight as scripting does. Thank you for providing the example, though, because if I was sufficiently unclear that one as experienced with the mesh project as yourself thought I was saying anything other than exactly what you "corrected" me to then I certainy wasnt sufficiently clear to have provided good info to Voodoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Radek Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Thanks both for correct me :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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