Mesh and Builder Kits

[Medhue Simoni]

Time for another thread for mesh education. :matte-motes-nerdy:

 

Ok, for builders, mesh is a God sent. Despite a few people, who don't understand mesh at all, saying that they won't convert their sculpties, mesh for builders gives them many more options and is almost guaranteed to lower the PE costs. Basically, a mesh can be half a prim or less. You won't see this when looking at just an individually rezzed mesh, but you will see this when you link 2 meshes. So, if 1 mesh is actually .5 prims, and you link that to another mesh that is .5, you get 2 meshes that cost a total of 1 prim. Technically, you could link numerous meshes together and they could cost only 1 prim.

The only real advantage that the original creator has, besides forming the mesh, is texture UV mapping. The original creator will be able to put numerous UV maps on 1 texture. This means that they can use 1 texture for many meshes, making their builds even more efficient. Although, a really good Builder Kit creator could create UV maps that cover multiple meshes, but I doubt that will be the norm.

A word of advice to Builder kit makers, convert your items to mesh, or some1 else will most definitely make mesh versions of the same things you make. This will affectively put you out of business. I would also suggest that Builder kit creators make shader UV maps for many of the meshes, as this makes it easy for any1 to start creating, without any texturing knowledge. Plus, if the creator adds different faces that separate different sections of the mesh, then each can easily be recolored.

The only things that will screw up the PE savings, is if you put scripts in the mesh, or you change the mesh's physics. You could not link those scripted meshes, or physical meshes together and keep the PE savings.

Clothing is a whole different ball game, and please do not use clothing as an example against what I'm talking about here.

[WADE1 Jya]

Funny thing is although there is some great ones, i've already seen some awful "builder's kits" out there: exceptionally high PE, obvious extraneous triangles where far less would have provided the same appearance... and laughably inefficient & badly done UV maps... all in all just horribly put together.

Unlike sculpty kits, I think mesh kits run more of a chance of becoming a swampland of horridly poor "resources"... just because there is more ways to make a poor mesh, whereas every sculpty has a predictable vertice count & basically just less ways to screw it up royally. If one has been relying on kits, one might have to choose very carefully, or might be much better off just learning how to do it themselves!

You are correct however, despite the bad... the good mesh kits will all be so much better than the best of sculpty kits... anybody in that business should be frantically upgrading everything if they don't want to lose their place in the market.

[Madeliefste Oh]

I have a free educational package available in my shop, where sculpts and meshes are compared. It contains two lamps, one is a sculpty, the second is a mesh.

Both items are full perms item and both come with  a Photoshop file. There is notecard includes that explains the main differences between sculpts and meshes. Feel free to pick up the box and experiment for yourself.

Landmark

[Medhue Simoni]

Yep, I've seen this also, and any1 purchasing any mesh items should beware. Most people are not even posting prim or PE counts. This is disturbing that so many creators would want to hide their PE. It is likely that they are doing this because their items have super high PEs. I personally feel that the prim counts should be maditory, as well as ARC scores for worn objects. I would suggest that no1 buy any mesh that does not list a PE or prim count, even if, or especially if it is worn.

Some people are even just converting their sculpties to mesh, which is not really getting all the benefits that mesh has. I'd suggest to creators, if they don't want to remake a new model, then use a program like MeshLab to reduce the poly counts.

[Anaiya Arnold]

That's really awesome!:matte-motes-grin:

 

[Josh Susanto]

Thanks for providing that.

It sounds exactly like what I'll need before I start with mesh.

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Most people are not even posting prim or PE counts. This is disturbing that so many creators would want to hide their PE. It is likely that they are doing this because their items have super high PEs. I personally feel that the prim counts should be maditory, as well as ARC scores for worn objects. I would suggest that no1 buy any mesh that does not list a PE or prim count, even if, or especially if it is worn.

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It might be a reason that people want to hide their PE because the objects have a high prim count. Another reason might be that it is not clear how to list PE count on the marketplace.

For example, I have a product that contains two linked meshes, so there are two prims in the object. But the PE of the object is 1. It is not clear to me at all, must I use the prim count on the marketplace listing, or can I use the PE? I think  it is more important that the final object weights one prim, so that is what I use in my listing. But there is no standard about how to list, so everyone might make different choices.

Then we have also the matter that PE is linked to a certain size of the mesh. A mesh can have a prim count of 1 at a size of 10x10x10 meter, but a prim count of 6 with a size of 100x100x100 meter.

The marketplace has no possibility to link PE count to object size. So this variable prim count might also be a reason for merchants not to put any prim count in the listing, simply because prim count depends on object size.

In my opinion the marketplace is still not ready for  mesh. It is not only this 

uncertainty

 about prim count, but also: where is the mesh category? 

Where do you list your meshes? Under sculpted prims, or in the main building category, or did you find other options?

[Medhue Simoni]

Yes, this is a good thing. I would encourage people to play with mesh as much as you can. Every time I work on a new mesh project, I end up doing things that I did not anticipate. Some parts get linked, some parts stay as separate meshes. You just never know until you sit down and start playing with it. It all kind of turns the whole notion of prims on its head, cause even though some of those same things were possible with prims and sculpts, they were not feasible as prims and sculpts.

[Medhue Simoni]

Those are some great points, and I totally agree with everything you say. I don't make builder kits, so I'm not really the person to comment. Yesterday, I was just working on some other things and it hit me how beneficial some aspects are for builder kits. Yeah, and the size issue, that is a complex 1. As I said, I don't make builder kits, so these are not things that I have to deal with at the moment.

 

[Toysoldier Thor]

and Made and Medhue....

These reasons that you are concerned, complaining, questioning about Mesh and mesh in MP etc... are all part of the biggest reason I was trying to tell you ...

Mesh will not be reason for Mainstream on the SL Grid (including the selling of Mesh) until Q2 2012.  Anyone can build a mesh but its all the logistical details like what you are talking about (and countless other missing details and problems) that still needs to be ironed out.

These will be ironed out eventually.  When they do, Mesh has reached mainstream.

Still, its good to have the meshanistas evangelizing Mesh and pushing it hard so that slowly but surely mesh will reach that critical point of acceptance and use.

[Medhue Simoni]

While you wait, I'll make money. I'd love to show you how many meshes I've sold this week, or last week, or the week before. Of course, I did not learn mesh to be the first and capitalize, my reasons are way more practical. If you think I'm strictly promoting mesh, you are all wrong here. I've always been 1 to try to help my fellow merchants when I can, and shine a light on things. Competition or being first, are never really things that I ever think about. If anything, I'd love to see every1 kick my butt in mesh creation and blow me away. I make my living on specific types of animation, which i don't have too many competitors. Heck, if anything, I'd love to get back to making mocaps instead of mesh, but I need so many meshes for my product lines, and it is fun.

[Toysoldier Thor]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

While you wait, I'll make money. I'd love to show you how many meshes I've sold this week, or last week, or the week before. Of course, I did not learn mesh to be the first and capitalize, my reasons are way more practical. If you think I'm strictly promoting mesh, you are all wrong here. I've always been 1 to try to help my fellow merchants when I can, and shine a light on things. Competition or being first, are never really things that I ever think about. If anything, I'd love to see every1 kick my butt in mesh creation and blow me away. I make my living on specific types of animation, which i don't have too many competitors. Heck, if anything, I'd love to get back to making mocaps instead of mesh, but I need so many meshes for my product lines, and it is fun.

---

Thats good for you.  You deserve to make whatever money that you make from mesh as you are one that helps to move Mesh toward mainstream in the up coming months.

When mainstream is close and if/when they work out the feasibility of mesh landscapes, I will be there.

[Madeliefste Oh]

Some of like to pioneer, Toy.

Like I have pointed out before, my business is not only about making money. Ofcourse it is also about making money, but the first aim of me and my partners is to develop ourselves in the fields that interest us. 3D modelling is such a field. We also do projects outsite SL.

Modeling for SL has it's specific character. I'm still finding out about it. At the moment I have daily discussions with my partner, cause we come across things to solve with almost every model we make. But it the same basic question every time: how can we improve the product for use in SL. One day we talk about how to use the physic shape, the other day we discuss texture quality and what is the best way to lay out the UV map to improve the texture quality in SL.

For me this is the best way to learn, by creating things myself. I don't have much patience to follow tutorials step by step. I have ideas and I want to make them... only when I don't come out I go look for information that my help me to solve my problems. Sometimes I find the solution in a tutorial, sometimes in theory, sometimes I ask a friend and sometimes I give up searching for info and bend my own mind around the problem again.

I don't sell much mesh objects yet. I sell maybe 1 mesh compared to 50 sculpties, maybe even less. Apart from meshes I still make new sculpties as well. I don't think the sculpty market will dissappear completely. In many cases mesh is the best option, but there are still cases that a sculpt is preferable above a mesh. When I release a new mesh it takes days before the first sale takes place. But when I release a new sculpt the selling start almost immedately. As long as the market behaves like this, I will not focus solely on mesh.

But mesh is at the moment a more interesting learing field then sculpties, that is the reason for me to make mesh as well.



[Avalon Vesperia]

You mentioned that the only way to mess it up would be to add a script or something, and this interests me. I am a furniture maker and while I use sculpts at the moment I have been looking at mesh. But I will need to add scripts for sitting. What will it do once i do that to the costs?

[TatianaDokuchic Varriale]

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Avalon Vesperia wrote:

You mentioned that the only way to mess it up would be to add a script or something, and this interests me. I am a furniture maker and while I use sculpts at the moment I have been looking at mesh. But I will need to add scripts for sitting. What will it do once i do that to the costs?

---

 

Good question.  My understanding was that it would cost 1 extra PE per script.  Hopefully someone here can verify the PE cost.

[Medhue Simoni]

Basically, adding a script will change your PE to the total amount of parts. For example, if you make a couch with 3 meshes, then your PE is 3, unless your actual PE is higher than 3. Size could also play a factor tho. It does not matter how many scripts you put inside. 1 script has the same affect as 3 scripts. If your mesh couch is only 1 mesh, and is 4 PE, then adding a script will not change anything. If your couch is 6 meshes, with a PE of 4, then adding a script will make your PE 6, because it has 6 parts. So, for something like this, you don't want alot of parts. You probably want your mesh count to be close to your PE, then adding a script will make little to no difference.

This might sound great, but it sucks if whatever you're building requires many meshes. Animals with moving parts is a good example of this.

[TatianaDokuchic Varriale]

@Medhue - thanks for the explanation!!

[Harm Xue]

Thanx for the explanation, on scripts and mesh, Medhue!

Glad I stopped by the forum before answering to Madeliefste notecard inworld. :smileywink: