LadyRijna Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 I just want to commend Linden Labs on the changes being made to the child avatars in Second Life. It has long been a subject of discussion amongst adults in the community who feel creators have been an over whelming factor into furthering unacceptable behavior in world and making it an uninviting place for actual adults to be. I know it seems an unpopular decision with some at the moment but for the safety of everyone I believe the right decision has been made and in the end Second Life will be more prosperous for it. We have to ask ourselves for those who speak loudest against having modesty covers on the genitalia of the child avatars? Why? If you were not using them for inappropriate purposes and keeping them covered, why is it an issue for you to now have the modesty covers in place. Are you now slighted in some manner? You shouldn't be. If you were in fact not doing anything that was inappropriate and keeping the child covered with no adult attachments, then there is in fact no change for you. The change will affect those who know they were using them inappropriately; Linden Labs could have abandoned it all together and pushed for a height and size requirement. 1 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilbap Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 I'm fine with modesty layers, I just think the top bit is silly when your chest is flat. Why do I need to wear a bra, when dudes at a beach aren't wearing bros. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 7 minutes ago, LadyRijna said: I just want to commend Linden Labs on the changes being made to the child avatars in Second Life. It has long been a subject of discussion amongst adults in the community who feel creators have been an over whelming factor into furthering unacceptable behavior in world and making it an uninviting place for actual adults to be. I know it seems an unpopular decision with some at the moment but for the safety of everyone I believe the right decision has been made and in the end Second Life will be more prosperous for it. We have to ask ourselves for those who speak loudest against having modesty covers on the genitalia of the child avatars? Why? If you were not using them for inappropriate purposes and keeping them covered, why is it an issue for you to now have the modesty covers in place. Are you now slighted in some manner? You shouldn't be. If you were in fact not doing anything that was inappropriate and keeping the child covered with no adult attachments, then there is in fact no change for you. The change will affect those who know they were using them inappropriately; Linden Labs could have abandoned it all together and pushed for a height and size requirement. I think it's the best we can do, but I don't think you should assume those with a child avatar who would prefer to look like a real boy or girl intended to want this for inappropriate purposes. No need to denigrate others to make a point. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilbap Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Just now, Luna Bliss said: I think it's the best we can do, but I don't think you should assume those with a child avatar who would prefer to look like a real boy or girl intended to want this for inappropriate purposes. No need to denigrate others to make a point. All of this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRijna Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 @Luna Bliss I think it's the best we can do, but I don't think you should assume those with a child avatar who would prefer to look like a real boy or girl intended to want this for inappropriate purposes. No need to denigrate others to make a point. That's the thing isn't it. They aren't real boys and girls. They are adults. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 4 minutes ago, LadyRijna said: That's the thing isn't it. They aren't real boys and girls. They are adults. Yes they are adults, but they are role playing children. Typically when we role play most anything we try to do so in as accurate a way as possible. Many are exploring identity, reclaiming an identity that was lost or damaged in the past, and so looking real is doubly important for many of them. But like I said, it appears this is the best we can do and those who use child avatars will have to learn to cope. My sympathy lies with them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) I don't really use child avatars, though I've had one on another platform for clothing sales and a bit of fun. I'm perfectly happy with him without having any private bits, and the modesty layer doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's for the best in the end. When on that platform an individual got accused for 'child play' and subsequently called a 'pedo', over a dancing baby avatar in diapers (Ally McBeal).. it's best to simply neuter everything and cover it over just so even the wrong person doesn't get triggered, or want to AR someone over something in their own twisted psyche.. better to play it safe. Context: From the TV show "Ally McBeal" - biological clock is ticking and she starts imagining a dancy baby everywhere she goes.. Modern user in 2020 uploaded the same baby avatar (and animated dance) and was called a pedo by a traumatized individual, AR'd to staff, and ran around the community saying everyone involved (and laughing at) the dancing baby was a pedo. Some staff even believed 'there was truth to the story', because THEY TOO had never seen the dancy baby from Ally Mcbeal.. Soooooooooooo anything can trigger anyone, might as well nanny it up and make sure everyone is covered. (not that it will stop ARs from traumatized weirdos) It's 2024, people don't act like adults anymore, so this is what has to happen. Edited June 19 by Codex Alpha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polenth Yue Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) It's pretty clear you've not read any of the threads here about this. People weren't complaining that they needed to have ultra realistic genitals on a five-year-old. The concerns initially were the wording asked for something impossible to create. Examples were needed and the wording needed to be clearer. Once this was done, people were concerned that putting bras on young girls and babies was sexualising in itself. And then there are non-humans, who the rules also apply to. If you have no bits and would be "naked" as an adult, where does the modesty patch go on a baby? Nobody is trying to get away with anything by having an uncovered baby tree, mushroom, realistic kitten or tea tray. It's just that the rules for humans don't make sense when applied to all avatars. An overall concern is that it would be used to target people with adult avatars, who were shorter, didn't fit into a neat gender binary, didn't follow current Second Life body fashions or liked to dress in cute clothes. There's also the concern of people using it as an excuse to target PG content in general as unacceptable for Second Life, not just cute clothes. These things have been happening in places. Edited June 19 by Polenth Yue Typo 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 5 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said: it's best to simply neuter everything and cover it over just so even the wrong person doesn't get triggered, or want to AR someone over something in their own twisted psyche.. better to play it safe. Yes, it is twisted. Somehow (for more than a few), child avatars and the genitalia of children is now equated with pedo****** 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRijna Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Yes they are adults, but they are role playing children. Typically when we role play most anything we try to do so in as accurate a way as possible. Many are exploring identity, reclaiming an identity that was lost or damaged in the past, and so looking real is doubly important for many of them. But like I said, it appears this is the best we can do and those who use child avatars will have to learn to cope. My sympathy lies with them. I see your point truly. However perhaps this move by Linden Labs will make it a safer environment for people who use this platform as a sort of therapy on some level. Unfortunately the real world there are predators that in fact prey on people such as you are speaking about and Linden Labs decision to do this in fact will protect them from others who are not as innocent as perhaps they are. I never meant to imply that all people who play on child avatars have ill intent but I have seen quite a bit unacceptable behavior in SL and it has accelerated in recent years That blanket of protection goes both ways. If a person is vulnerable mentally and experiences someone with ill intent, the damage could possibly be far worse theoretically than what they experienced as a child. I do apologize if my initial post sounded as though I judged everyone on child avatars as being somehow malicious, that was not my intent I assure you. I have friends who are in fact child avatars. They have their own reasons for it. That said I have never seen them undressed nor wearing adult genitalia but I have been out in public places and seen others doing so and wondered what the point in that was, they were also with adult males being carried by men with groups in their profiles like "Old Men for Young Girls". I believe this is the kind of thing Linden Labs is seeking to get a handle on more so than trying to target those with a child like nature who enjoys living that part of their spirit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) . Edited June 19 by Codex Alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRijna Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 8 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said: It's pretty clear you've not read any of the threads here about this. People weren't complaining that they needed to have ultra realistic genitals on a five-year-old. The concerns initially were the wording asked for something impossible to create. Examples were needed and the wording needed to be clearer. Once this was done, people were concerned that putting bras on young girls and babies was sexualising in itself. And then there are non-humans, who the rules also apply to. If you have no bits and would be "naked" as an adult, where does the modesty patch go on a baby? Nobody is trying to get away with anything by having an uncovered baby tree, mushroom, realistic kitten or tea tray. It's just that the rules for humans don't make sense when applied to all avatars. An overall concern is that it would be used to target people with adult avatars, who were shorter, didn't fit into a neat gender-binary, didn't follow current Second Life body fashions or liked to dress in cute clothes. There's also the concern of people using it as an excuse to target PG content in general as unacceptable for Second Life, not just cute clothes. These things have been happening in places. You are one of the ones exacerbating everything. That's absolutely absurd. Linden Labs even posted pictures of the avatars with the coverings. Creators know what they are doing that is wrong. If it looks like a child use common sense and cover up the breast and behind for goodness sakes. If it doesn't have them then don't be stupid. A box or a mushroom isn't going to have breast or a behind. Get a grip! People like you are what is wrong with the world and most likely you are one of them walking around with a two foot child avatar dressed like a porn star. That's what Linden Labs wants stopped. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Yay! Another one. 1 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) 2 minutes ago, LadyRijna said: Yikes. You were making great points, just keep it to the points, but don't get personal with anyone. Edited June 19 by Codex Alpha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 I feel like this thread could have been a reply to one of the 10 previous other child avatar threads 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) Can someone explain this to me, and break it down like I'm an idiot? What's the difference between this and similar threads? At least the Original Poster seems "positive"! Is the difference that most other threads are people COMPLAINING about (or at least "concerned about") the changes? Edited June 19 by Love Zhaoying added (or at least "concerned about") 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said: 25 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Yes, it is twisted. Somehow (for more than a few), child avatars and the genitalia of children is now equated with pedo****** Yeah, I said I don't need them, but if I wanted them, I'm an adult so why not. But since there are so many traumatized individuals out there ready to scream about and against who knows what - even a seemingly non-event (in a public hub, no less) - that if it's required to cover up, probably for the best anyway. Nanny state away! It's an attribute of the human mind to focus on new experiences that were perceived as dangerous to self or others. I experienced this myself -- after seeing a news report about a calamity, very graphic and depicting the pain of those who lost loved ones, where mud hills collapsed after extensive rain. I became afraid of driving on coastal California highways and feared the hills we meandered around might collapse...lol. Such is that case as society became aware of all types of abuse that was previously kept fairly hidden -- it came to the forefront of many people's minds, often in twisted ways, and perceived where it often never occurred or likely would not (witness the frenzy over imagined sexual abuse in schools during the 80's/90's when society discovered this can happen, where many innocent people were unfairly condemned and prosecuted). So I see aspects of this phenomenon with the increased awareness of pedo**** in SL. Edited June 19 by Luna Bliss 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) We had this all covered already for a gazillion times. Please read the other threads and reply there if you really have a new angle on this matter. Edited June 19 by Sid Nagy Added a few 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRijna Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 4 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said: Yikes. You were making great points, just keep it to the points, but don't get personal with anyone. True sorry, there are just some people that it's absolutely pointless to speak to them. No one is trying to neuter anyone or anything. It's just the reality of the world we live in. There are just bad people out there that prey on others and the only way to make it a safe environment for everyone is to make one rule for everyone to follow. When Linden Labs began none of the avatars had genitalia they all had modesty coverings. Everyone hated it of course and there was a time when the adult avatars were segregated from the child avatars, there was a height requirement. I am not sure if that is something people would rather see happen. I know there are families now. I guess my next question would be, would we rather give up our family units to be segregated again or give a little to the modesty which is not really that much of an inconvenience? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Just now, Sid Nagy said: We had this all covered already for a gazillion times. Well, you know how it works. If it gets heated and off-topic, the thread will get closed. See? That would be a GOOD thing in some cases! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: Well, you know how it works. If it gets heated and off-topic, the thread will get closed. See? That would be a GOOD thing in some cases! As far as I'm concerned one of our favorite Moles could step in right away. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRijna Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I see you are a weaseling wordsmith. You said: "Get a grip! People like you are what is wrong with the world and most likely you are one of them walking around with a two foot child avatar dressed like a porn star". Just stop! Can't you make a point without accusing someone of being sexually inappropriate? And like I said initially those who have reason are the ones who cry loudest about the issue. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValKalAstra Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 OP just moments ago: Seriously. This has been discussed to utter death, back and forth, left and right, up and down, ressurected, killed again, re-ressurected, turned into a bloody hollywood remake, had thirteen seasons run it into the ground, cancelled, rebooted at bollywood, got exiled, had a kpop remake which then got reimported and discussed to death yet again. It's dead, Jim. This really doesn't need a sockpuppeering alt: electric boogaloo. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polenth Yue Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 21 minutes ago, LadyRijna said: You are one of the ones exacerbating everything. That's absolutely absurd. Linden Labs even posted pictures of the avatars with the coverings. Creators know what they are doing that is wrong. If it looks like a child use common sense and cover up the breast and behind for goodness sakes. If it doesn't have them then don't be stupid. A box or a mushroom isn't going to have breast or a behind. Get a grip! People like you are what is wrong with the world and most likely you are one of them walking around with a two foot child avatar dressed like a porn star. That's what Linden Labs wants stopped. When it started out, there were no examples and the wording was different. They posted examples because people asked for them. They added explanations because people asked. They stated directly that it applied to literally all avatars types if they were presenting as a child (and the ones I listed all exist). There still hasn't been an answer on how to apply it to non-humans. You are now an example of someone going after someone with a PG avatar presentation, who has no involvement with the sexual side of Second Life, on the basis that I must secretly be up to bad things on an alt. It's well known that I'm a mushroom, I present as an adult, and I'm an asexual person who is indifferent to that side of Second Life. I'll visit an adult region for a hunt, but it's never been my scene. Not everything in life, first or second, is secretly sexual. Someone who doesn't appear to be involved with such things is often exactly that. It's honestly really creepy to assume things like that about me. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Just now, LadyRijna said: 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I see you are a weaseling wordsmith. You said: "Get a grip! People like you are what is wrong with the world and most likely you are one of them walking around with a two foot child avatar dressed like a porn star". Just stop! Can't you make a point without accusing someone of being sexually inappropriate? And like I said initially those who have reason are the ones who cry loudest about the issue. Those who protest too much aren't ALWAYS covering something up -- they can be, we might suspect, BUT... sometimes a person protesting simply thinks your assumptions stink to high hell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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