Default 'Limited Quantities' Checkbox Stuck Checked in Marketplace Searches

[TessaPaige Jupiter]

Dear fellow merchants, I hope this message finds you well. I'm writing to address a critical concern affecting all of us on the Marketplace platform due to the new search algorithm implemented by Linden Labs. This algorithm change is impacting both Gacha resellers and original content creators alike, causing significant challenges in visibility and sales. The NEW persistent default checkbox for "limited quantities" exacerbates these challenges and is not the solution. This default setting restricts access to listings, hindering the ability of sellers to reach potential buyers effectively. Since the rollout of this algorithm earlier this year, we've witnessed a noticeable decline in sales across the board. It's imperative that we collectively address this issue to ensure a fair and accessible marketplace for everyone. Rather than relying on a default setting that limits options, the search engine should display all listings by default, allowing users to apply filters as needed without hindrance. I urge Linden Lab to prioritize resolving this issue promptly to restore the Marketplace's functionality and support the livelihoods of all sellers. By doing so, we uphold the integrity of the platform and ensure a thriving marketplace for all.

Edited May 8 by TessaPaige Jupiter
forgot to add Linden Lab

[Polenth Yue]

I posted this in the big search thread, so hopefully someone will see it and comment somewhere. No filter should default to on. You also can't change it for you, as it'll just pop back to the default next time.

[RohanaRaven Zerbino]

[Halzel Lightworker]

Why on earth did they do that?? What was the reason for the creator who petitioned on Change.org to change it? Was the full impact of that change considered from all angles?

I suspect it may have been due to those revolting creatures 'copybots', who have made many wonderful creators' lives hell by stealing their work and selling it as legitimate on marketplace. The problem there is that all of us that spent tens of thousands of real dollars over the years and want to sell 'second hand' items (whether gacha or not) on the marketplace will now have a massive exposure drop!

Clearly this wasn't thought about from both sides properly. Charming  
No wonder your sales had dropped off Tessa, I am so sorry to hear about all of this. You work 8 to 10 hours A DAY on your business, it's your job. I am hoping something can be done about it soon. xox

[Codex Alpha]

Gacha items have always been an issue of confusion for buyers, who think they were buying fat packs of items, or buying the wrong item that they wanted, because many of the store listings where exactly the same, and maybe only the item included circled in red.

Usually on store listings, it was required in the TOS to only showcase the item for sale, but gacha style items (that are usually made up of limited quantities) didn't really keep to that ideal.

Gacha has been banned in a few countries (used to be in vending machines) because 1) It was considered a form of gambling 2) Too many complaints to consumer boards about not receiving what they expected.

For those interested, just look up 'Gacha banned' or "Gacha as gambling'.

For me, my beef with Gacha listings was more the spam of listing and images that were created, and the potential confusion caused by having 30 or more pictures in exactly the same style, and the actual product included not featured prominently. When a seller would list 100 of these items, divided into sets of 10 packs, etc then have 100 sellers doing it, it got pretty spammy and probably very confusing to new buyers... and maybe some complaints were made.

[xaka Chayoo]

This is Genius. Imagine the pain of thought, and having to make choices, all gone now. Now you have the freedom of not having to think and make choices, it is done for you, the pain is gone. The freedom of being told how to think and what choices to make. Absolute Genius I tell you.

[Opal Faith]

Having that box ticked per default is a way of limiting MY freedom of choice! I can do it myself while searching if I choose/want. I can't see "the benefits" of this. So far the only thing I have seen is a huge drop in sales... Lots of stores are now totally invisible on MP so what's the point of being there? If we are now "limited"? We were gacha resellers because it was perfectly legit, gachas were banned, yes but there are now NEW machines and the items are still limited... We spent an uncountable number of hours making listings let alone all the money we put in there to end up like this?

Edited May 9 by Opal Faith

[Flea Yatsenko]

Sorry, I'm glad they got rid of including gacha in default search results. I've seen people with over 10,000 listings, all gacha. It's unfair to creators who spend thousands of hours making lots of original products as it harms their search rankings and makes their products harder to find because there's a lot more competition in search results. And we all know search results have always been questionable. People who don't even create content and instead just resell gacha items have been actively harming original content creators by doing things like creating stores with thousands of listings that a content creator has to compete with in search results.

I hope the next steps are to make partial and 100% mesh default checks and to hide demo items in search results and instead have the listing on the search result indicate there's a demo available.

Some of this gacha stuff is completely out of control. LL is doing their best to give relevant search results, it's bad enough they have tens of millions of listings to sort through, most of which have keyword spam, are out of date, etc. But to have to deal with stores with thousands of gacha listings is an unfair burden to LL as well as the content creators who have to compete for being in the first page of search results with gacha. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but it needs to be said.

Making this post is probably a bad idea but idc.

[Halzel Lightworker]

Quote

People who don't even create content and instead just resell gacha items have been actively harming original content creators by doing things like creating stores with thousands of listings that a content creator has to compete with in search results.

Many creators made those gachas in the first place! That is one heck of a lot of advertising. Also, what is wrong with people who don't create content selling limited items that they bought from those creators in the first place?? If the creators find it unfair, why on earth did they make gachas? Still do, in fact! Just vendored a different way now.  Resellers like Tessa and others here took a hit when they banned gachas as they were presented before, but they soldiered on for the love of the items and for many of them for a way to make SL money. Not all of us can be as talented as we'd like to be. Creators know that gacha / limited collectors items will be resold either on marketplace or in-world. Before, people could move their mouse and tick "Do not show limited items" if they felt bile rising in their throats at seeing gacha being sold. Problem solved.

Now? Now, ALL people selling items that are limited will not appear by default. How is that fair to the underdog?
This means that all artists selling original art pieces in marketplace listings, most of whom do limited copies or only one in special cases, no longer have a fair representation of their products on marketplace from default first search. Gachas are not the only product that is limited quantities. A terrible blow for those that make their living creating things to lift others up.

Edited May 9 by Halzel Lightworker

[Opal Faith]

28 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

Sorry, I'm glad they got rid of including gacha in default search results. I've seen people with over 10,000 listings, all gacha. It's unfair to creators who spend thousands of hours making lots of original products as it harms their search rankings and makes their products harder to find because there's a lot more competition in search results. And we all know search results have always been questionable. People who don't even create content and instead just resell gacha items have been actively harming original content creators by doing things like creating stores with thousands of listings that a content creator has to compete with in search results.

I hope the next steps are to make partial and 100% mesh default checks and to hide demo items in search results and instead have the listing on the search result indicate there's a demo available.

Some of this gacha stuff is completely out of control. LL is doing their best to give relevant search results, it's bad enough they have tens of millions of listings to sort through, most of which have keyword spam, are out of date, etc. But to have to deal with stores with thousands of gacha listings is an unfair burden to LL as well as the content creators who have to compete for being in the first page of search results with gacha. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but it needs to be said.

Making this post is probably a bad idea but idc.

I am sorry but I have NEVER heard those creators complaining while we were putting thousands of lindens into their machines

[TessaPaige Jupiter]

25 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

Sorry, I'm glad they got rid of including gacha in default search results. I've seen people with over 10,000 listings, all gacha. It's unfair to creators who spend thousands of hours making lots of original products as it harms their search rankings and makes their products harder to find because there's a lot more competition in search results. And we all know search results have always been questionable. People who don't even create content and instead just resell gacha items have been actively harming original content creators by doing things like creating stores with thousands of listings that a content creator has to compete with in search results.

I hope the next steps are to make partial and 100% mesh default checks and to hide demo items in search results and instead have the listing on the search result indicate there's a demo available.

Some of this gacha stuff is completely out of control. LL is doing their best to give relevant search results, it's bad enough they have tens of millions of listings to sort through, most of which have keyword spam, are out of date, etc. But to have to deal with stores with thousands of gacha listings is an unfair burden to LL as well as the content creators who have to compete for being in the first page of search results with gacha. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but it needs to be said.

Making this post is probably a bad idea but idc.

I understand your concern, though it appears you're addressing a distinct issue from the original post's focus. The crux here lies in the freedom to tailor search parameters according to individual preferences. Perhaps Linden Labs could offer tutorials on effectively filtering search results to empower users in navigating the marketplaces more efficiently.

Undoubtedly, it's crucial for creators to garner visibility for their original works without being overshadowed by resellers or specific item types like gachas. Granting users greater control over their search parameters, enabling them to filter out certain listings such as limited quantities or demos, stands to benefit both creators and consumers alike. However, it has to be the choice of the user to do so.

While it's valid to express frustrations regarding the current state of search results and the hurdles faced by original content creators, it's imperative to steer the conversation towards constructive solutions. Perpetually enabling the "DO NOT SHOW Limited Quantities" option isn't a sustainable fix; rather, it risks veering into a form of discrimination by limiting users' choices and punishing people who sell Limited items like original Artworks.

Let's continue this dialogue with a focus on fostering inclusivity and empowering users while addressing the challenges at hand.

[Codex Alpha]

@TessaPaige Jupiter

Yes, I would prefer solutions such as returning to a clearly listing of what the product is, to move away from gacha items in general, and that gacha does not interfere with more legitimate 'limited quantity' items that could be offered.

I kind of think the whole 'garage sale' thing quite fun and intriquing. I did make a limited product myself that is out there in the world Only 9 of them as an experiment. I want that to continue, but I'm not a fan of the Gacha scheme or the image and listing spam they create.

Edited May 9 by Codex Alpha

[Flea Yatsenko]

10 minutes ago, TessaPaige Jupiter said:

I understand your concern, though it appears you're addressing a distinct issue from the original post's focus. The crux here lies in the freedom to tailor search parameters according to individual preferences. Perhaps Linden Labs could offer tutorials on effectively filtering search results to empower users in navigating the marketplaces more efficiently.

Undoubtedly, it's crucial for creators to garner visibility for their original works without being overshadowed by resellers or specific item types like gachas. Granting users greater control over their search parameters, enabling them to filter out certain listings such as limited quantities or demos, stands to benefit both creators and consumers alike. However, it has to be the choice of the user to do so.

While it's valid to express frustrations regarding the current state of search results and the hurdles faced by original content creators, it's imperative to steer the conversation towards constructive solutions. Perpetually enabling the "DO NOT SHOW Limited Quantities" option isn't a sustainable fix; rather, it risks veering into a form of discrimination by limiting users' choices and punishing people who sell Limited items like original Artworks.

Let's continue this dialogue with a focus on fostering inclusivity and empowering users while addressing the challenges at hand.

No offense but you seem to have a bit of a conflict of interest since you have a store of 10,000+ listings of gacha. I think you need to understand your privilege of being able to create a store with so many listings.

[TessaPaige Jupiter]

3 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

No offense but you seem to have a bit of a conflict of interest since you have a store of 10,000+ listings of gacha. I think you need to understand your privilege of being able to create a store with so many listings.

I understand your concerns, and I appreciate your perspective. It's true that I've invested a lot of time, Lindens and effort into my gacha store over the past four years. However, I want to assure you that I'm committed to fairness and integrity in all my interactions. While my involvement in the gacha industry may create a potential conflict of interest, I strive to maintain transparency and ethical practices in my business. It's important to note that the focus of this discussion isn't specifically about my store, but rather addressing broader issues. If you have any specific concerns or suggestions for improvement, I'm open to hearing them.

[Halzel Lightworker]

I fail to see why someone would decide to respond to a diplomatic and open-minded post like Tessa's with a laughing emoji. There really is no compromise and pleasant discourse out there anymore is there.

[Flea Yatsenko]

Trying to play such a political angle and stuff because a search default was changed that harms your business. Gacha harms a lot of content creators who depend on market place and ranking highly because they have no chance of competing with the raw amount of listings. I mean it's awfully transparent what's going on here.

Gacha is harmful to new users who don't understand what gacha is or limited quantity items. Specially when they are marketed in search to appear as new products. Gacha resellers can not provide any sort of support for their items since they aren't the original creators. So any new or under-educated users who have issues get zero support when they would have some if they bought directly from a creator. Several gacha listings are not entirely even clear they are gacha and can be confusing even for experienced users.

Gacha is a special type of transaction on the marketplace, it should be opt in because it has different rules and behavior from traditional marketplace transactions and items. Search should be tailored to new users and people who do not understand how to use the search engine effectively by using things like boolean search, limiting search results, etc. It's actually not very fair to users who don't know any better to include them in default search results. I would even argue it borderlines on predatory, having a gacha trying to appear as a standard product. Not all gacha resellers are like that but a quick search shows most listings are basically telling the customer they get absolutely zero support for a product that's not even created by the seller.

If anything limited quantity shouldn't be shown by default, but the wording should be changed. It should say "include in results" and have a checkbox for limited items and demo items, with any listing with a demo item showing it has a demo on the search results page. Someone who wants to find a gacha should enable the setting to find gacha items, and someone who doesn't know what gacha is or doesn't want it shouldn't have to change their settings. Gacha has been basically forced on people using search before this change.

I know how you feel, I have websites and have to deal with web search engines. They make changes that drastically affect what happens to a website's rankings all the time. But a search engine's highest priority is to given the most relevant and quality results with as little effort to the user as possible.

[xaka Chayoo]

Sometimes in life you have to choose between the easy and the right thing to do, now this is one of them times, make the right choice, make the restriction optional, and when the user makes that choice it stays on until the user selects to have it off again, even surviving through logoff. Make the right decision, make it optional.

[Halzel Lightworker]

45 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

Trying to play such a political angle and stuff because a search default was changed that harms your business. Gacha harms a lot of content creators who depend on market place and ranking highly because they have no chance of competing with the raw amount of listings. I mean it's awfully transparent what's going on here.

Gacha is harmful to new users who don't understand what gacha is or limited quantity items. Specially when they are marketed in search to appear as new products. Gacha resellers can not provide any sort of support for their items since they aren't the original creators. So any new or under-educated users who have issues get zero support when they would have some if they bought directly from a creator. Several gacha listings are not entirely even clear they are gacha and can be confusing even for experienced users.

Gacha is a special type of transaction on the marketplace, it should be opt in because it has different rules and behavior from traditional marketplace transactions and items. Search should be tailored to new users and people who do not understand how to use the search engine effectively by using things like boolean search, limiting search results, etc. It's actually not very fair to users who don't know any better to include them in default search results. I would even argue it borderlines on predatory, having a gacha trying to appear as a standard product. Not all gacha resellers are like that but a quick search shows most listings are basically telling the customer they get absolutely zero support for a product that's not even created by the seller.

If anything limited quantity shouldn't be shown by default, but the wording should be changed. It should say "include in results" and have a checkbox for limited items and demo items, with any listing with a demo item showing it has a demo on the search results page. Someone who wants to find a gacha should enable the setting to find gacha items, and someone who doesn't know what gacha is or doesn't want it shouldn't have to change their settings. Gacha has been basically forced on people using search before this change.

I know how you feel, I have websites and have to deal with web search engines. They make changes that drastically affect what happens to a website's rankings all the time. But a search engine's highest priority is to given the most relevant and quality results with as little effort to the user as possible.

 

45 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

Trying to play such a political angle and stuff because a search default was changed that harms your business. Gacha harms a lot of content creators who depend on market place and ranking highly because they have no chance of competing with the raw amount of listings. I mean it's awfully transparent what's going on here.

Gacha is harmful to new users who don't understand what gacha is or limited quantity items. Specially when they are marketed in search to appear as new products. Gacha resellers can not provide any sort of support for their items since they aren't the original creators. So any new or under-educated users who have issues get zero support when they would have some if they bought directly from a creator. Several gacha listings are not entirely even clear they are gacha and can be confusing even for experienced users.

Gacha is a special type of transaction on the marketplace, it should be opt in because it has different rules and behavior from traditional marketplace transactions and items. Search should be tailored to new users and people who do not understand how to use the search engine effectively by using things like boolean search, limiting search results, etc. It's actually not very fair to users who don't know any better to include them in default search results. I would even argue it borderlines on predatory, having a gacha trying to appear as a standard product. Not all gacha resellers are like that but a quick search shows most listings are basically telling the customer they get absolutely zero support for a product that's not even created by the seller.

If anything limited quantity shouldn't be shown by default, but the wording should be changed. It should say "include in results" and have a checkbox for limited items and demo items, with any listing with a demo item showing it has a demo on the search results page. Someone who wants to find a gacha should enable the setting to find gacha items, and someone who doesn't know what gacha is or doesn't want it shouldn't have to change their settings. Gacha has been basically forced on people using search before this change.

Once again, this doesn't just affect gacha resellers. It affects anyone who sells their creations in limited quantities or as one-off specials (such as limited edition artwork. Yes, they are on there!) . It is not just gacha resellers that this will cause exposure issues for.

[TessaPaige Jupiter]

2 hours ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

Trying to play such a political angle and stuff because a search default was changed that harms your business. Gacha harms a lot of content creators who depend on market place and ranking highly because they have no chance of competing with the raw amount of listings. I mean it's awfully transparent what's going on here.

Gacha is harmful to new users who don't understand what gacha is or limited quantity items. Specially when they are marketed in search to appear as new products. Gacha resellers can not provide any sort of support for their items since they aren't the original creators. So any new or under-educated users who have issues get zero support when they would have some if they bought directly from a creator. Several gacha listings are not entirely even clear they are gacha and can be confusing even for experienced users.

Gacha is a special type of transaction on the marketplace, it should be opt in because it has different rules and behavior from traditional marketplace transactions and items. Search should be tailored to new users and people who do not understand how to use the search engine effectively by using things like boolean search, limiting search results, etc. It's actually not very fair to users who don't know any better to include them in default search results. I would even argue it borderlines on predatory, having a gacha trying to appear as a standard product. Not all gacha resellers are like that but a quick search shows most listings are basically telling the customer they get absolutely zero support for a product that's not even created by the seller.

If anything limited quantity shouldn't be shown by default, but the wording should be changed. It should say "include in results" and have a checkbox for limited items and demo items, with any listing with a demo item showing it has a demo on the search results page. Someone who wants to find a gacha should enable the setting to find gacha items, and someone who doesn't know what gacha is or doesn't want it shouldn't have to change their settings. Gacha has been basically forced on people using search before this change.

I know how you feel, I have websites and have to deal with web search engines. They make changes that drastically affect what happens to a website's rankings all the time. But a search engine's highest priority is to given the most relevant and quality results with as little effort to the user as possible.

I fully acknowledge the potential for confusion that arises from including gacha listings in default search results, particularly for newcomers unfamiliar with the concept of gacha or limited quantity items. The dispersion of gacha listings across various categories only exacerbates this confusion and frustration among users. Educating users on how to effectively utilize the MP search could significantly enhance transparency and usability for everyone involved. Perhaps, Linden Lab can include a banner ad on Marketplace with a link to a tutorial. It's crucial to recognize users' need for autonomy in their search preferences. Defaulting to not showing limited quantities is not a practical solution.

It's evident that gacha listings, while offering benefits to some, can present challenges for both content creators and users. Personally, I've discovered many talented designers through playing gacha machines in the past and present, investing thousands of Lindens in the process. Creators have undoubtedly profited from the patronage of myself and other resellers.

As a reseller myself, I deeply understand the importance of supporting the products I sell. I've gone above and beyond to ensure customer satisfaction, handling exchanges, fixing MOD/NO TRANS items, and providing refunds when necessary. Many other sellers uphold similar standards of service to maintain customer trust and loyalty. Additionally, items appear as new in search due to being newly listed, rather than being newly produced.

Ultimately, the goal should be to provide users with the most relevant and high-quality results with minimal effort. By addressing these concerns and implementing appropriate measures, Linden Lab can cultivate a more equitable and user-friendly marketplace environment that benefits both sellers and buyers. It's important to note that prior to the new MP search implementation, such issues were virtually nonexistent. Complaints from creators only surfaced after the introduction of the new MP search system, often with fingers pointed at the gacha resale market. Together, we can advocate for positive change and ensure a thriving marketplace ecosystem for all.

 

Edited May 9 by TessaPaige Jupiter
grammar

[Rockridge Constantine]

If you want a response then be sure to follow it here https://feedback.secondlife.com/web-features/p/limited-quantities-not-showing-in-search

[RohanaRaven Zerbino]

In an economy chain, the first ones affected are full perm creators. This idea itself is absurd, and I am stunned anyone went through with it. The Marketplace is seriously deteriorating, and it is about time that LL makes some changes in the departments in charge of the Marketplace.

[Alice Aurelia]

7 hours ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

Извините, я рад, что они избавились от включения гачи в результаты поиска по умолчанию. Я видел людей с более чем 10 000 объявлений, и все гача. Это несправедливо по отношению к создателям, которые тратят тысячи часов на создание большого количества оригинальных продуктов, поскольку это вредит их рейтингу в поисковых системах и затрудняет поиск их продуктов, поскольку в результатах поиска гораздо больше конкуренции. И мы все знаем, что результаты поиска всегда были сомнительными. Люди, которые даже не создают контент, а вместо этого просто перепродают предметы гача, активно вредят создателям оригинального контента, создавая магазины с тысячами списков, с которыми создателю контента приходится конкурировать в результатах поиска.

Я надеюсь, что следующими шагами будут частичные и 100%-ные проверки сетки по умолчанию, а также скрытие демонстрационных элементов в результатах поиска и вместо этого в списке результатов поиска будет указано, что доступна демо-версия.

Некоторые из этих гача-вещей совершенно вышли из-под контроля. LL делает все возможное, чтобы предоставлять релевантные результаты поиска, достаточно плохо, что им приходится сортировать десятки миллионов списков, большинство из которых содержат спам по ключевым словам, устарели и т. д. Но иметь дело с магазинами с тысячами гачей листинги — это несправедливое бремя для LL, а также для создателей контента, которым приходится конкурировать за место на первой странице результатов поиска с помощью Gacha. Я знаю, что меня за это раскритиковают, но об этом нужно сказать.

Публикация этого поста, вероятно, плохая идея, но idc.

So, you're happy for people to be prevented from choosing for themselves, and by default they are deprived of choice. Even when people remove the mark - it comes back again. Is that right? Resellers bought these products with their money, now when they sell them - they are told - they don't care about you. Is that a good thing?

[Alice Aurelia]

7 hours ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

Без обид, но, похоже, у вас небольшой конфликт интересов, поскольку в вашем магазине более 10 000 списков гачи. Я думаю, вам нужно понять, что у вас есть привилегия создать магазин с таким количеством объявлений.

Who's stopping who from doing the same? It is not good to criticize a person who has invested a lot of money, effort and talent in his work. Hard work leads to results, nothing has ever fallen from the sky into one's hands. 

[Polenth Yue]

Talking about personal preferences is missing the point. No filter should be on by default, because this is far more likely to confuse people than vice versa. If someone gets too many results, they'll look for ways to cut it down (using the filters). If someone gets none, they'll think nothing is available (leaving the site, because they don't realise the problem is the filters). None of us benefit from customers leaving the site in those circumstances.

[Silas Merlin]

Set all filters off by default please.