Legalities in terms of creating and selling.

[ContessaHavendale]

Hello, I am unsure if this is the right place to discuss what my questions are, but ill just get right into it. Also, please excuse any grammar mistakes I may make on this post. 

First, I am interested in creating mesh clothing for second life. Therefore, I decided to look into the legalities of creating on SL. However, I was a bit confused about what was listed in the TOS in regards to creating.

Secondly, the reason I was confused is because the TOS says that you are not allowed to use the logos of brands nor the faces of celebrities to make products. It made me really think about how skin and clothing creators are able to clearly reference skins and clothing that are in regards to irl people and brands and these users are able to keep their products up for sale on SL. So right now I am a little puzzled because I have the name of my brand created and I was not going to use the label as the real-life brand on my products, I was going to simply replicate the designs of this specific designer and place my own logo onto it.  
 

Lastly, in regards to my brand I wanted to mainly re-create clothing that are based off of irl-brands into mesh clothing on SL. However, I am just a little perplexed because what is written in SL’s TOS is not what many users are complying to and they are getting away with this. In terms of items like dresses, my dresses would reference the irl-designs of others, but as for sweaters that have the irl watermark id simply be referencing the irl brand’s design and I would simply just put my brand’s name in the spot where the irl-brand put their brand’s name at. I would just like to simply know if it would be illegal for me to reference an irl-brand’s design and create it on avastar. Thank you. 

[Quistess Alpha]

Keep in mind we're all residents, and if you were to contact LL about it directly, youd probably get something along the lines of "hire an attorney for a brief consultation". That said, my 2 points:

A) "what you can get away with" and "what is allowed" are rather different things. keep in mind that pretty much all of LL's policies are enforced by report. That means in a practical sense, how likely you are to get in trouble for anything depends on how many people see your stuff, and how pernicious the person you're copying is (not relevant to you, but Disney and Harley Davidson are well known for being mean).

B) I (again, not an expert) think the main standard to be concerned with is 'would a reasonable person see my thing and associate it with the brand I'm copying?' if yes, you should try and change your thing so it's more generic.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

Also keep in mind that "other people are doing it" shields you from nothing.

[Quistess Alpha]

20 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Also keep in mind that "other people are doing it" shields you from nothing.

A bit of a tangent, but if you have mega bucks, 'literally everyone is doing it' and you can prove the copyright holder isn't actively doing much to protect their claim. . . but I think that's more common for trademarks.

[Da5id Weatherwax]

On 9/2/2023 at 5:13 PM, Quistess Alpha said:

A bit of a tangent, but if you have mega bucks, 'literally everyone is doing it' and you can prove the copyright holder isn't actively doing much to protect their claim. . . but I think that's more common for trademarks.

Yeah, that's trademarks. IANAL but I've worked in a lot of situations where managing IP was an issue... Copyrights you don't lose by not enforcing them, even if you've let a doxen other folks slide on it you can still enforce it against the next one. Trademarks are "use it or lose it" - If you are aware of a trademark infringement and you don't defend your mark, it can become unenforceable in the future.

[Codex Alpha]

On 7/6/2023 at 7:53 AM, ContessaHavendale said:

 It made me really think about how skin and clothing creators are able to clearly reference skins and clothing that are in regards to irl people and brands and these users are able to keep their products up for sale on SL.

So right now I am a little puzzled because I have the name of my brand created and I was not going to use the label as the real-life brand on my products, I was going to simply replicate the designs of this specific designer and place my own logo onto it. 

The first answer to why they can continue to list and sell on SL, even though they may clearly represent a brand and design from RL, and sometime obviously - is because unless the copyright holder files a complaint to SL management - they can get away with it. It is very risky for all parties involved, as a copyright holder can simply do an investigation taking a year or more - and calculate damages from that and sue for that amount. It rarely happens though, since SL is not really big enough or even considered at all by a corporation. However, some corporations are more nasty than others about this, and will aggressively pursue any creator (or SL as the platform) they become aware of.

The second answer is more related to ethics and what kind of creator do you want to be? An ethical creator who uses RL designs as 'inspiration' for your own designs, and build your brand that way? Or just be another unethical creator who wants to 'replicate the designs of a RL designer/company, and slap my own logo on it and call it my own work AND sell the resulting items for my own profit'.

That's the decision many creators have to make at some point. Believe me, copycat stuff sells more than original stuff, and always does no matter what platform the 'replicated designs' are sold on. It DOES pay to upload copyrighted content, or 'replicated designs', as long as the creator can get away with it.

It's more of an ethical choice than a legal one. Most likely you can get away with the legal issues (mostly), but it's your integrity and character (and the satisfaction you get) from  your activities that you alone can decide.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

On 12/5/2023 at 10:59 PM, Codex Alpha said:

It's more of an ethical choice than a legal one. Most likely you can get away with the legal issues (mostly), but it's your integrity and character (and the satisfaction you get) from  your activities that you alone can decide.

I would love to get rid of this "decision" :3

[animats]

There are resources on line regarding intellectual property for game developers. Use Google.

This litigation in the "quiet luxury" fashion sector is worth following. The question is whether you can make a duplicate of some overpriced branded item minus the logo. On the other hand, there isn't that much originality in fashion. If you see some novel runway design today, there's probably something like it somewhere in the archives of the Fashion Institute of Technology. It's people who slavishly duplicate the details of branded fashion that get in trouble.

In practice, companies seem to pursue things that copy their branding rather than their actual design. Trademark protection is strong and infringement is well-defined.

On 7/6/2023 at 7:53 AM, ContessaHavendale said:

I was going to simply replicate the designs of this specific designer and place my own logo onto it.  

That's a bit much. Do something original, or transformative, or something.

 

 

[Jenny Ashland]

The "legal" version is a question you answered when you got the right to upload mesh in SL. You agreed to not use any trademarks... Nike, Reebok, Lui Viton, Gucci.. ect... However SL is loaded with trademark gear, and stolen 3d meshes, even by some of the more popular creators. The law of copyright says you have to have at least a 10% difference. So technically you can make Bucci... At the end of the day it all comes down to what helps you sleep at night...