renting mainland, neighbour has terraformed my land !!

[Medusa Torok]

I don't even know how it's possible.  I rented some mainland to use for storage of my breedables, it was cheap, and seemed a good option at the time. I don't have full control but wearing a group tag allows me to terraform and place objects. I went to the land this morning to find the neighbours next door were busy building and terraforming, and had made big holes in my land... not just a little bit. great big squares of my land had been sunken.  They disappeared when I arrived so I could not speak to them.  My security orb recorded no visitors on the land, so it had been done from their land.  I was able to repair the damage so no big deal I guess, other than... what the atcual heck is going on... I didnt think it was possible to alter someone else's land, even rented?  this has made me very insecure about renting mainland and although I have paid a few weeks in advance I will not use this land again.  it just feels unsafe. Btw I did check and their names are not in the land group either... I had wondered if they were members and that was how it happened... but they aren't on the member list.  I am confused and somewhat disturbed by this.

[Kylie Jaxxon]

In About Land > Options....make sure the "edit terrain" (everyone) is unchecked

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Kylie Jaxxon

[beethros Karas]

This reminds me when I was in a really good restaurant and I found a hair in my soup!
I made a big scene..
But at the end it was my hair..
I never went there again and I never taste their delicious and outstanding entrees they had!

 

Yay me!

[Qie Niangao]

50 minutes ago, Medusa Torok said:

 wearing a group tag allows me to terraform 

That means anybody who can wear that group tag (in an appropriate role) can terraform that land. If that's what's happening, your landlord needs to rethink the group role assignments.

52 minutes ago, Medusa Torok said:

My security orb recorded no visitors on the land, so it had been done from their land.

Anybody with terraforming permission can terraform from anywhere within the region (and I think neighboring regions). You definitely don't need to be on the parcel to terraform it.

Totally irrelevant, but perhaps some consolation: years ago there was briefly a bug where terraforming somewhere in the region would make radical changes to terrain elsewhere in the region. Some math mistake, no doubt. I made quite a mess before I realized what was happening!

[Medusa Torok]

25 minutes ago, Kylie Jaxxon said:

In About Land > Options....make sure the "edit terrain" (everyone) is unchecked

 

there is no such option

[Medusa Torok]

13 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

That means anybody who can wear that group tag (in an appropriate role) can terraform that land. If that's what's happening, your landlord needs to rethink the group role assignments.

Anybody with terraforming permission can terraform from anywhere within the region (and I think neighboring regions). You definitely don't need to be on the parcel to terraform it.

Totally irrelevant, but perhaps some consolation: years ago there was briefly a bug where terraforming somewhere in the region would make radical changes to terrain elsewhere in the region. Some math mistake, no doubt. I made quite a mess before I realized what was happening!

I did say this already, but yeah.. I checked the group and they were not members. I can't figure out how it was done, at all.  Unless they left the group before I checked.

[Medusa Torok]

23 minutes ago, beethros Karas said:

This reminds me when I was in a really good restaurant and I found a hair in my soup!
I made a big scene..
But at the end it was my hair..
I never went there again and I never taste their delicious and outstanding entrees they had!

 

Yay me!

well aren't you just a little ray of sunshine

[Kylie Jaxxon]

6 minutes ago, Medusa Torok said:

there is no such option

You don't see this....

Firestorm-Releasex64 6.6.8.68380 - Kylie Jaxxon (gyazo.com)

[Medusa Torok]

24 minutes ago, Kylie Jaxxon said:

You don't see this....

Firestorm-Releasex64 6.6.8.68380 - Kylie Jaxxon (gyazo.com)

I'm not using firestorm, I am using the standard viewer, and the option to allow edit terrain is definitely not there for me. has it been removed?

[Kylie Jaxxon]

4 minutes ago, Medusa Torok said:

I'm not using firestorm, I am using the standard viewer, and the option to allow edit terrain is definitely not there for me. has it been removed?

Ahhh, sorry, not familiar with the SL viewer

 

[beethros Karas]

I am !

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Medusa Torok said:

I'm not using firestorm, I am using the standard viewer, and the option to allow edit terrain is definitely not there for me. has it been removed?

You.possibly only get that option shown on mainland if you actually own the property.  I'd have to confirm that with an alt.

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Medusa Torok said:

I did say this already, but yeah.. I checked the group and they were not members. I can't figure out how it was done, at all.  Unless they left the group before I checked.

Yes. I should have bolded the "anybody" in "anybody who can wear that group tag… can terraform that land." I guess the neighbors might have left the group, which would be pretty much an admission of guilt, but I meant it may have been coincidence that they'd been terraforming and that your land was terraformed, if it's possible some other group member could have done it.

This would be too obvious, but: if the same group to which your land is deeded also owns and rents out other land in the area, those tenants could easily have strayed from their own terraforming project, especially if they aren't that experienced in wielding the terraforming tool. (Or worse, if they've attached a scripted terraforming tool not meant to be attached, see the ancient BUG-4929.)

(I'm baffled by where the Linden viewer has hidden the "Allow anyone to terraform" button. It's a sim-side parcel property that anybody can determine by script—see PARCEL_FLAG_ALLOW_TERRAFORM. But I sure haven't figured out how to set it.)

[Kylie Jaxxon]

45 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You.possibly only get that option shown on mainland if you actually own the property.  I'd have to confirm that with an alt.

Ahhhhh, hadn't thought of that

[beethros Karas]

or if you rent TIER rentals for... someone! And they give you a FULL perm parcel to use!

[Medusa Torok]

ok so I had some help inworld from a good friend, to solve this.  To begin with. I was using the official viewer, and neither of us could find the option to toggle edit terrain. I am shocked by this being omitted, because it left me wide open to this sort of thing happening. BUT even if I had been using firestorm  (I have switched now btw) , the option would have only been available to the landowner.  So, as a renter, I still could not have changed the setting. My friend who was with me tried and found that he could terraform. I don't know if this is the standard with mainland rental, and might be the only way they can permit you to terraform the land you have rented - but it does seem to leave you vulnerable to  others coming along and messing with your land.  it might sound trivial but when it does happen, it feels like a massive invasion of privacy. I thought the rental was a cheap solution for my storage problems but honestly not worth the hassle. Lesson learned.  I didn't know about this stuff because I recently returned to second life after some years away and a lot has obviously changed. Thanks to all on here who tried to help.  

 

[Polenth Yue]

15 minutes ago, Medusa Torok said:

ok so I had some help inworld from a good friend, to solve this.  To begin with. I was using the official viewer, and neither of us could find the option to toggle edit terrain. I am shocked by this being omitted, because it left me wide open to this sort of thing happening. BUT even if I had been using firestorm  (I have switched now btw) , the option would have only been available to the landowner.  So, as a renter, I still could not have changed the setting. My friend who was with me tried and found that he could terraform. I don't know if this is the standard with mainland rental, and might be the only way they can permit you to terraform the land you have rented - but it does seem to leave you vulnerable to  others coming along and messing with your land.  it might sound trivial but when it does happen, it feels like a massive invasion of privacy. I thought the rental was a cheap solution for my storage problems but honestly not worth the hassle. Lesson learned.  I didn't know about this stuff because I recently returned to second life after some years away and a lot has obviously changed. Thanks to all on here who tried to help.  

 

One thing to keep in mind is the neighbour likely didn't know that they had terraforming permission on your land and might not have seen what happened as they were focusing on their land. My usual assumption when terraforming on the mainland is that I only have rights to my own land. I've never had a neighbour give that right to everyone (including the rentals near me... it's just not typical).

Best thing would be to get it how you want it and ask the landlord to turn it off once you're done. Then the neighbour can do their own terraforming without any accidents.

[Rowan Amore]

20 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said:

One thing to keep in mind is the neighbour likely didn't know that they had terraforming permission on your land and might not have seen what happened as they were focusing on their land. My usual assumption when terraforming on the mainland is that I only have rights to my own land. I've never had a neighbour give that right to everyone (including the rentals near me... it's just not typical).

Best thing would be to get it how you want it and ask the landlord to turn it off once you're done. Then the neighbour can do their own terraforming without any accidents.

Since the land is group owned, would the owner of the land/group be able to.only allow terraforming to group members?  That would seem like the solution to the problem.  I don't have group owned land and my parcel on Horizons doesn't allow anyone to terraform so I'm unable to check.

[Qie Niangao]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Since the land is group owned, would the owner of the land/group be able to.only allow terraforming to group members?  That would seem like the solution to the problem.  I don't have group owned land and my parcel on Horizons doesn't allow anyone to terraform so I'm unable to check.

Definitely. That's how it's usually done with Mainland rentals that allow tenants to terraform their parcels. Ideally, there's a dedicated land-owning group for each rental, so a tenant can only terraform their own parcel (but this does mean a lot of groups for a landlord with a lot of different tenants).

Also, the group Ability to "Always allow 'Edit Terrain'" is usually reserved for select Roles in the group, so a tenant might add group members with lesser Roles who can do other stuff without screwing up the parcel's terrain. With dedicated per-tenant groups, custom designed Roles are a really powerful tool that can help tenants enjoy their parcels.

[Polenth Yue]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Since the land is group owned, would the owner of the land/group be able to.only allow terraforming to group members?  That would seem like the solution to the problem.  I don't have group owned land and my parcel on Horizons doesn't allow anyone to terraform so I'm unable to check.

That's how you'd usually do it, but if the landlord understood that, they'd have done it that way from the start. My suggestion was aimed at a landlord who understands how to check/uncheck boxes on the land, but isn't very good with setting up group roles. Though it likely would be even easier to just rent from someone else.

[Setsuki Takeda]

If the settings are bad it can be an accident, I get "Can not terraform X" errors all the time when editing my own land because it tries to smooth the land with the neighbor who owns a really old skybox rental place.

They would never notice as they don't have anything on the ground and haven't logged in in literally years, but if they allowed terraforming by me I would have accidentally edited their land countless times in the two years I have owned their adjascednt parcel.