💡 Positive News Regarding Scripted Agents Function 💡

[M Peccable]

4 minutes ago, Rick Nightingale said:

@M Peccable Just saying the bot will avoid my parcel but land in my neighbours is just moving the problem (and unreasonable expectation) to them. It's not the answer.

I'm not sure what the answer is... but that's no reason to not implement systems to give us paying land owners the choice to decide what is welcome on our land.

It is quite possible that it is not an unreasonable expectation to your neighbor, who might have found the HUD so useful in their SL experience that they WELCOME the bot. It has happened more than once. Once in the last week, in fact. That particular user has a much bigger problem with security orbs than ban lines, and actually asked if there were a way for the bot to report instantly booting orbs! The point is not all people share your viewpoint on bots.

You do indeed have the choice to decide, you can add the bot to the land's ban list. When you do that, it forces the bot to a different parcel, that all. That solution has worked well for many years now, it is only recently that the problem bots have become so numerous that people have become tired trying to keep up with them all.

I would like to add that my bot tries to the best of his ability to choose public or abandoned land. So encounters with other avatars do not happen very often to begin with.

But, ALL bots be damned!

[M Peccable]

5 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

Duplicate post

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by M Peccable

[M Peccable]

13 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

At this moment, does landing in a no bot area register as the such for you?  If so, then would it be possible to design your bots to enter another area of the region to do the scan and leave the no bot parcels (or entire regions) a different color to indicate it as unknown?  I happen to enjoy your product, and hope to see it still viable in the future.

Edit:
This is assuming the feature is brought to the mainland, and implemented for parcel owners.

I was going to also add that bringing it to mainland is really the biggest question. However, all of Second Norway, a sailing community, is already off-limits to the bot.  It's only a matter of time before all of the sailing communities will discover this option and implement it.  

 

[Rick Nightingale]

29 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

It is quite possible that it is not an unreasonable expectation to your neighbor, who might have found the HUD so useful in their SL experience that they WELCOME the bot. It has happened more than once. Once in the last week, in fact. That particular user has a much bigger problem with security orbs than ban lines, and actually asked if there were a way for the bot to report instantly booting orbs! The point is not all people share your viewpoint on bots.

You do indeed have the choice to decide, you can add the bot to the land's ban list. When you do that, it forces the bot to a different parcel, that all. That solution has worked well for many years now, it is only recently that the problem bots have become so numerous that people have become tired trying to keep up with them all.

I would like to add that my bot tries to the best of his ability to choose public or abandoned land. So encounters with other avatars do not happen very often to begin with.

But, ALL bots be damned!

You are making people's choice of accepting or not a bot on their land as 'need to opt out' or you get them. Why should I need to opt out of something? If someone finds the bot useful, fine they can opt in by whitelisting it.

Make it 'opt in' and I won't have a problem. Having the deny-bot function in the parcel settings is as close to 'opt in' as we can get (unless it's also turned on by default, then it truly would be 'opt in').

Even in law in the UK, all online marketing and tracking stuff legally has to be specifically opt in now. Not that everyone obeys it, but at least it's been recognised.

It's my choice (or should be)... and I shouldn't have someone just expecting bot access to my land unless I take action to stop them. Your assertion that I should have to take action if I do not want your bot is unacceptable.

Bringing other problems into the issue like security orbs is simply irrelevant to this discussion.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Rick Nightingale

[Rick Nightingale]

23 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

But, ALL bots be damned!

I think, given that I've repeatedly said that whitelisting is essential in the system, that your final comment is a bit reactionary and out of order.

[Rick Nightingale]

On a semi-serious thought... I run PiHoles for local DNS to block tracking and advertising. That works best with a whitelist/blacklist supplied by 'trusted' people.

I wonder if a such a list could be compiled and imported for bots?

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, M Peccable said:

mean the end of a good selling product

🤔

[M Peccable]

1 minute ago, Rick Nightingale said:

On a semi-serious thought... I run PiHoles for local DNS to block tracking and advertising. That works best with a whitelist/blacklist supplied by 'trusted' people.

I wonder if a such a list could be compiled and imported for bots?

I was just thinking that. Your whitelist idea won't work for me on a sim-by-sim basis, but if bots pre-approved by LL could still access mainland that would work great.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

but if bots pre-approved by LL could still access mainland that would work great.

I don't think anyone said bots would be totally banned from mainland.

But - if a mainland parcel owner wants to ban bots from their parcel, that is not OK with you? White-listing bots as "approved" defeats the purpose if landowners want to prevent bots from entering their owned parcels.

[M Peccable]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I don't think anyone said bots would be totally banned from mainland.

But - if a mainland parcel owner wants to ban bots from their parcel, that is not OK with you? White-listing bots as "approved" defeats the purpose if landowners want to prevent bots from entering their owned parcels.

Of course that's OK, as I already said to Rick. But that isn't acceptable to him. We're trying to find something that is acceptable to both.

As it stands now, Rick DOES want all bots banned from mainland, with only those whitelisted parcel by parcel allowed. No way would that work for a product like mine.

Actually, I shouldn't say Rick wants ALL bots banned, but he wants all ROAMING bots banned unless specifically whitelisted.

Edited March 30, 2023 by M Peccable

[Qie Niangao]

35 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

I was going to also add that bringing it to mainland is really the biggest question. However, all of Second Norway, a sailing community, is already off-limits to the bot.  It's only a matter of time before all of the sailing communities will discover this option and implement it.  

That seems crazy. On the other hand, to repeat myself: you would not need to bother with sending bots to those regions because the entire sailing community would be eager to contribute to the data you're trying to collect, if they had a way to do so and understood how valuable it is to that community.

Honestly, this seems an opportune way to grow the use and utility of the product, and the more you can leave the bots behind, the better.

[Ceka Cianci]

8 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

Of course that's OK, as I already said to Rick. But that isn't acceptable to him. We're trying to find something that is acceptable to both.

As it stands now, Rick DOES want all bots banned from mainland, with only those whitelisted parcel by parcel allowed. No way would that work for a product like mine.

From what I understand, they can't do it on mainland, because they would have to do it by region which would mean that every land owner in the region would have registered scripted agents blocked..

They don't want to make it where all main land land owners have to live under one setting..

So even if they could do it on mainland and made it by parcel, they could more than likely find a spot in the region to still get their data, I would think..

[Rick Nightingale]

15 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

As it stands now, Rick DOES want all bots banned from mainland, with only those whitelisted parcel by parcel allowed. No way would that work for a product like mine.

My importable whitelist idea was intended for parcel owners to implement, not for LL to blanket implement on us. It could be provided by LL but should still be up to the parcel owner to choose to implement it. I would accept it being turned on by default as long as we could just tick a box in parcel setings to turn it off too. Just like the overall deny-bots setting.

It is unfortunate that it does not work for a product like yours, but the issue is with your product and the unreasonable expectation that you can send bots to people's parcels without their prior acceptance.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Rick Nightingale

[M Peccable]

2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

That seems crazy. On the other hand, to repeat myself: you would not need to bother with sending bots to those regions because the entire sailing community would be eager to contribute to the data you're trying to collect, if they had a way to do so and understood how valuable it is to that community.

Honestly, this seems an opportune way to grow the use and utility of the product, and the more you can leave the bots behind, the better.

The HUD is meant for Explorers, not just sailors and aviators. Exploring mainland means getting off the beaten path, which is why I created the HUD to begin with -- I like to explore off the beaten path. So do many others who use the HUD. Getting a script or a prim into the 1000's of mainland sims off the beaten path in order to keep the HUD fed with data that explorers can rely on is impossible, unless you know something I don't.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rick Nightingale said:

My importable whitelist idea was intended for parcel owners to implement, not for LL to blanket implement on us. It could be provided by LL but should still be up to the parcel owner to choose to implement it. I would accept it being turned on by default as long as we could just tick a box in parcel setings to turn it off too. Just like the overall deny-bots setting.

It is unfortunate that it does not work for a product like yours, but the issue is with your product and the unreasonable expectation that you can send bots to people's parcels without their prior acceptance.

 

Thank you.

[Rick Nightingale]

As I said @M Peccable, it is unfortunate your product relies on sending un-asked-for bots to other people's land.

I love to explore. Never needed a HUD to help me.

[M Peccable]

8 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

From what I understand, they can't do it on mainland, because they would have to do it by region which would mean that every land owner in the region would have registered scripted agents blocked..

They don't want to make it where all main land land owners have to live under one setting..

So even if they could do it on mainland and made it by parcel, they could more than likely find a spot in the region to still get their data, I would think..

Yes, you are exactly correct. But Rick insists that all parcels be BLOCKED to bots by default. Only owners who specifically opt-in to allowing bots (which very few would do anyway) is the only thing acceptable to Rick.

As his last post indicates, he doesn't care if functionality in SL is lost, because adding names to the parcel's ban list is an unacceptable compromise between privacy and functionality. If the HUD has to die, the HUD has to die. Since he never needed a HUD, I guess that means the 1000's who have benefitted from it are delusional and don't need it either.

Edited March 30, 2023 by M Peccable

[Rick Nightingale]

@M PeccableWow - you're making this a bit personal and putting words into my mouth that I didn't say. Such is how people like to argue I guess.

I have never said that all parcels be blocked to bots by default. I have said we need an option to turn on blocking.

DO NOT tell me that I don't care about losing functionality in SL. Who do you think you are and what gives you that right?

I guess I already have my answer since you think it is acceptable that people have to tolerate your bots' invasion of their paid-for land, because otherwise your product will suffer.

If your product is that wonderful, let word of it spread as it surely will and people will allow it.

I'll not engage any further with you on the matter. To do so would be a waste of air for us both.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Rick Nightingale

[Rowan Amore]

Yes, all mainland could be blocked to bots with an opt-in function.  LL would only need to run around and opt-in all Linden owned/protected land.  Problem solved.

[M Peccable]

1 hour ago, Rick Nightingale said:

You are making people's choice of accepting or not a bot on their land as 'need to opt out' or you get them. Why should I need to opt out of something? If someone finds the bot useful, fine they can opt in by whitelisting it.

Make it 'opt in' and I won't have a problem. Having the deny-bot function in the parcel settings is as close to 'opt in' as we can get (unless it's also turned on by default, then it truly would be 'opt in').

What else can I say?

[M Peccable]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Yes, all mainland could be blocked to bots with an opt-in function.  LL would only need to run around and opt-in all Linden owned/protected land.  Problem solved.

Except that a great many mainland regions contain no Linden owned land.

Edited March 30, 2023 by M Peccable

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

Yes, you are exactly correct. But Rick insists that all parcels be BLOCKED to bots by default. Only owners who specifically opt-in to allowing bots (which very few would do anyway) is the only thing acceptable to Rick.

As his last post indicates, he doesn't care if functionality in SL is lost, because adding names to the parcel's ban list is an unacceptable compromise between privacy and functionality. If the HUD has to die, the HUD has to die. Since he never needed a HUD, I guess that means the 1000's who have benefitted from are delusional and don't need it either.

I just wonder why there couldn't be a certain height  across the grid that was considered like the bot highway..Something where users knew that this was the area that bots went through.. They could have the whole up and down left to right front to back. but if they build in that one area there is a good chance maybe a bot will show up..

Then making it part of the requirements for registers scripted agents..Then registers bot would be having to stay at that height.. This way registered bots aren't landing in peoples houses and secret places..  From my understanding, that is the main thing people are really tired of..

They are still going to get the unregistered ones showing up where ever they land, But the registered bots could still be functional around the grid and not be interrupting or bothering anyone then..

It's just a thought I came up with is all..

The thing that really bothers me about all this is, the unregistered ones still able to do what they do while those that did it the right way are getting hit..

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

Except that a great many mainland regions contain no Linden owned land.

Then those region owners have the CHOICE to allow or not.  

[M Peccable]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Then those region owners have the CHOICE to allow or not.  

Yes, and with bot access blocked by default, it will be the rare exception where even one of the parcel owners changes their choice to "opt-in to bots".

In the case where the entire region is owned by one person then it's their choice.

I like Ceka's solution. Implement a place where bots PRE-APPROVED BY LL can visit that is not intrusive to any owners. In fact, make that place inaccessible to anyone except pre-approved bots, so that the bad bots can't use it too.

Edited March 30, 2023 by M Peccable

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, M Peccable said:

it will be the rare exception where even one of the parcel owners changes their choice to "opt-in to bots".

Doesn't that tell you something?