A Positive Brainstorming / Suggestion Box Thread - Ideas for Improving Second Life Sociability, Usability and Retention

[DevlinMcDermott]

Want to bring people back so that Second Life thrives again?

Return it to its original roots, which were a social network and meeting ground for like-minded people in a simulated reality and life. It was never meant to be a game or compete in visual graphics with games.

Guess what?

You can’t!

It was never meant to be a marketplace of endless stores and endless creators, which, btw these days are largely empty.

 

The original intent was to invent a little creative world of your own on your own plot of virtual land, to which you could call your friends so that you could interact with them. No matter where in the real world they were and shared a good time, with go out to a club or such with great music. And kick around together in a city sim.

 

It was open and accessible to ALL people, even those with 6-8 year old computers. Because it was simple and still beautiful. Open to everyone and just not those with $2000 computers.

 

The original intent of Second Life was as a Virtual Reality social networking site. You even hosted top of the line musicians and stars! Holding concerts in a virtual world! Do you remember those days in Second Life? Major corporations couldn’t wait to set up their presence in Second Life, Universities used to hold classes here. Leading influences and lecturers held court here… And nearly every magazine or newspaper ran a story on Second Life.

 

But somewhere along the lines, you lost sight of the very thing that made Second Life so popular, which was a virtual reality social networking community building site which happened to allow you to build a little house, make money, shop for virtual clothing and lead a New Life in a Virtual World.

 

But you lost sight of original goal, didn’t you, Second Life? Didn’t you, Linden Labs?

 

There is an old saying which might help you recapture Second Life’s glory days.. Which I know would bring back the hords of people who miss the old days in Second Life. ..

 

And that saying is this:.

 

Keep it simple, Stupid.

 

 

[Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia]

2 minutes ago, DevlinMcDermott said:

Want to bring people back so that Second Life thrives again?

Return it to its original roots, which were a social network and meeting ground for like-minded people in a simulated reality and life. It was never meant to be a game or compete in visual graphics with games.

Guess what?

You can’t!

It was never meant to be a marketplace of endless stores and endless creators, which, btw these days are largely empty.

 

The original intent was to invent a little creative world of your own on your own plot of virtual land, to which you could call your friends so that you could interact with them. No matter where in the real world they were and shared a good time, with go out to a club or such with great music. And kick around together in a city sim.

 

It was open and accessible to ALL people, even those with 6-8 year old computers. Because it was simple and still beautiful. Open to everyone and just not those with $2000 computers.

 

The original intent of Second Life was as a Virtual Reality social networking site. You even hosted top of the line musicians and stars! Holding concerts in a virtual world! Do you remember those days in Second Life? Major corporations couldn’t wait to set up their presence in Second Life, Universities used to hold classes here. Leading influences and lecturers held court here… And nearly every magazine or newspaper ran a story on Second Life.

 

But somewhere along the lines, you lost sight of the very thing that made Second Life so popular, which was a virtual reality social networking community building site which happened to allow you to build a little house, make money, shop for virtual clothing and lead a New Life in a Virtual World.

 

But you lost sight of original goal, didn’t you, Second Life? Didn’t you, Linden Labs?

 

There is an old saying which might help you recapture Second Life’s glory days.. Which I know would bring back the hords of people who miss the old days in Second Life. ..

 

And that saying is this:.

 

Keep it simple, Stupid.

LOL, what are you talking about?  There was no singular original idea.  A couple of well connected nerds got baked out of their minds at burning man, and decided to hack around together.  They showed some virtual snowmen to their rich buddies, so they got money thrown at them.  Everybody involved had different ideas.  If there was an idea, that was it, that there was no idea.  Everybody kind of worked on what they cared about, and everybody cared about different things, much like the early internet, and early WWW.  SL exists because of dumb luck.  There was no singular vision or design.  If there was, we would have less problems, but SL would also be shut down, because it would be boring.

[Dorientje Woller]

21 minutes ago, DevlinMcDermott said:

Want to bring people back so that Second Life thrives again?

Return it to its original roots, which were a social network and meeting ground for like-minded people in a simulated reality and life. It was never meant to be a game or compete in visual graphics with games.

Guess what?

You can’t!

It was never meant to be a marketplace of endless stores and endless creators, which, btw these days are largely empty.

 

The original intent was to invent a little creative world of your own on your own plot of virtual land, to which you could call your friends so that you could interact with them. No matter where in the real world they were and shared a good time, with go out to a club or such with great music. And kick around together in a city sim.

 

It was open and accessible to ALL people, even those with 6-8 year old computers. Because it was simple and still beautiful. Open to everyone and just not those with $2000 computers.

 

The original intent of Second Life was as a Virtual Reality social networking site. You even hosted top of the line musicians and stars! Holding concerts in a virtual world! Do you remember those days in Second Life? Major corporations couldn’t wait to set up their presence in Second Life, Universities used to hold classes here. Leading influences and lecturers held court here… And nearly every magazine or newspaper ran a story on Second Life.

 

But somewhere along the lines, you lost sight of the very thing that made Second Life so popular, which was a virtual reality social networking community building site which happened to allow you to build a little house, make money, shop for virtual clothing and lead a New Life in a Virtual World.

 

But you lost sight of original goal, didn’t you, Second Life? Didn’t you, Linden Labs?

 

There is an old saying which might help you recapture Second Life’s glory days.. Which I know would bring back the hords of people who miss the old days in Second Life. ..

 

And that saying is this:.

 

Keep it simple, Stupid.

 

 

So, you want to revert back and wipe out 21 years, and look even worse then the flexi times as picture below? BTW; SL isn't Metaverse where you only have to render the top of the body because you get a half avatar, roblox style.

Edited Thursday at 05:59 AM by Dorientje Woller

[DevlinMcDermott]

14 minutes ago, Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia said:

LOL, what are you talking about?  There was no singular original idea.  A couple of well connected nerds got baked out of their minds at burning man, and decided to hack around together.  They showed some virtual snowmen to their rich buddies, so they got money thrown at them.  Everybody involved had different ideas.  If there was an idea, that was it, that there was no idea.  Everybody kind of worked on what they cared about, and everybody cared about different things, much like the early internet, and early WWW.  SL exists because of dumb luck.  There was no singular vision or design.  If there was, we would have less problems, but SL would also be shut down, because it would be boring.

Philip Rosedale formed Linden Lab in 1999 with the intention of developing computer hardware to allow people to become immersed in a virtual world. In its earliest form, the company struggled to produce a commercial version of the hardware, known as "The Rig", which in prototype form was seen as a clunky steel contraption with computer monitors worn on shoulders. That vision changed into the software application Linden World, in which people participated in task-based games and socializing in a three-dimensional online environment.^[17] That effort eventually transformed into the better-known, user-centered Second Life. Although he was familiar with the metaverse of Neal Stephenson's novel Snow Crash, Rosedale has said that his vision of virtual worlds predates that book, and that he conducted early virtual world experiments during his college years at the University of California, San Diego, where he studied physics.

Second Life began to receive significant media attention in 2005 and 2006, including a cover story in BusinessWeek magazine featuring the virtual world and Second Life avatar Anshe Chung. By that time, Anshe Chung had become Second Life's poster child and symbol for the economic opportunities that the virtual world offers to its residents. At the same time, the service saw a period of exponential growth of its user base.

[Dorientje Woller]

Just now, DevlinMcDermott said:

Philip Rosedale formed Linden Lab in 1999 with the intention of developing computer hardware to allow people to become immersed in a virtual world. In its earliest form, the company struggled to produce a commercial version of the hardware, known as "The Rig", which in prototype form was seen as a clunky steel contraption with computer monitors worn on shoulders. That vision changed into the software application Linden World, in which people participated in task-based games and socializing in a three-dimensional online environment.^[17] That effort eventually transformed into the better-known, user-centered Second Life. Although he was familiar with the metaverse of Neal Stephenson's novel Snow Crash, Rosedale has said that his vision of virtual worlds predates that book, and that he conducted early virtual world experiments during his college years at the University of California, San Diego, where he studied physics.

Second Life began to receive significant media attention in 2005 and 2006, including a cover story in BusinessWeek magazine featuring the virtual world and Second Life avatar Anshe Chung. By that time, Anshe Chung had become Second Life's poster child and symbol for the economic opportunities that the virtual world offers to its residents. At the same time, the service saw a period of exponential growth of its user base.

And? 1999, 2005, 2006? Those are yesteryears. Also, if you haven't yet a social network/meeting ground in SL ... then you are doing something wrong. Not SL, not LL, but you.

[PheebyKatz]

To paraphrase the good old days:

"So, there was a time, many board meetings ago, when we didn't know exactly what we wanted SL to be like... And on a lark, I asked the guys in the office to just build crazy stuff while we met in the meeting.

We were watching them on a big monitor, building little snowmen and houses and stuff. And after a bit of watching them all working together in real time, we realized, WOW, that was what was cool about SL.

That idea of creating together."

~ Philip Linden

[PheebyKatz]

3 hours ago, NaomiLocket said:

When all you need is to socialise, voice, and goof off a little you don't actually need the world beyond. In my limited past experience ^(of hubs) some that do split their needs between hubs and not hubs have crowd friends at hubs. I imagine a good portion of them rock that hub only life outside of shopping. World beyond becomes another expense in either time, money, or both.

There are very long-time residents even, who have their own places, homesteads, and all sorts of fun and beautiful getaways, who frequent info hubs/welcome areas/newbie helper sims etc., just because they know they can always find people to chat with. It's like hanging out in a comfy old dive bar year after year, watching the faces change, meeting new people, and hanging out with other regulars you've seen there since you were new.

Sure, a lot of those places are downright crapholes when viewed from a certain perspective, but when one is comfortable in an environment and the people are familiar and fun to be around it's anything but a craphole, no matter what others think.

I've had some pretty toxic experiences in such places, but I've also had some of my best times in SL in the same places.

And yeah, a lot of people don't really need anything else. They want to hang out with people and talk and have fun, and so does everyone else who's there. Not everyone needs a lonely island getaway (and/or the accompanying expenses) all the time to relax and unwind, some just like hanging at the local bar after work.

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

3 hours ago, DevlinMcDermott said:

It was open and accessible to ALL people, even those with 6-8 year old computers. Because it was simple and still beautiful. Open to everyone and just not those with $2000 computers.

Clearly you've never teleported to a Telehub with a sim-sized multi-tier mall built around it!

This notion that SL was once a silky smooth virtual utopia free from lag of any kind is very far from the truth.  Go take a look at the old SL forum archives and see how many threads complaining about the various types of lag there were.

As one early resident put it in a 2008 thread about region avatar limits...

Quote

I can remember when 30 avs would grind a sim to a crawl. I guess the Lindens have made a little progress in 5 years when it comes to crowds.

Anyone that's experienced telehub malls will know that slow loading times, "treacle physics" and slideshow-style frame rates are nothing new to SL, there were days where your chances of getting timed out before the teleport even finished were around 50/50.

[DevlinMcDermott]

29 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said:

There are very long-time residents even, who have their own places, homesteads, and all sorts of fun and beautiful getaways, who frequent info hubs/welcome areas/newbie helper sims etc., just because they know they can always find people to chat with. It's like hanging out in a comfy old dive bar year after year, watching the faces change, meeting new people, and hanging out with other regulars you've seen there since you were new.

Exactly!

The whole world of SL is built on the previous architecture. Textured and designed to look good and functional on the previous architecture.

Think they’re coming back and rebuilding in updated look? LOL Start from scratch and rebuild? Fat chance.

What’s going to happen when SL/LL even goes further and introduces even more upgrades.

You're going to have a entire grid of white walls and floors and geometric shapes to look at. Everywhere! Or if SL gets rid of the structures entirely,. . Endless and Endless and Endless of empty land.

And they’ll have you paying premium prices for an empty grid. Just as they are already raising their prices for you to upload the new textures,.

It will then take you decades just to build something decent to look at. And of course they are going to raise their prices and move features you now enjoy freely behind a pay wall.  Because they'll need somebody to recoup their costs. When the grid is predominately empty of those that were once there, 

Edited Thursday at 09:29 AM by DevlinMcDermott

[PheebyKatz]

8 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Clearly you've never teleported to a Telehub with a sim-sized multi-tier mall built around it!

This notion that SL was once a silky smooth virtual utopia free from lag of any kind is very far from the truth.  Go take a look at the old SL forum archives and see how many threads complaining about the various types of lag there were.

As one early resident put it in a 2008 thread about region avatar limits...

Anyone that's experienced telehub malls will know that slow loading times, "treacle physics" and slideshow-style frame rates are nothing new to SL, there were days where your chances of getting timed out before the teleport even finished were around 50/50.

When I was new, I used a netbook with a 7-inch screen and a fan as loud as a swamp boat to hang out on sims where I had to pan my camera out to the blank sky or a wall somewhere just so I could chat without it taking me 20 seconds or more to see my response appear in the window. Every three minutes I would crash, and it took me a minute to restart the viewer, and another to log in. That left me one minute to chat before crashing again.

I may, unknowingly, have been trying to experience the SL that came before me.

These days I'm just grateful every time I get my viewer to work again and have more than a week to use it before I'm forced to install the latest version. I actually consider things to be better now than they used to be. I may simply be delusional, but I don't care.

XD

Edited Thursday at 09:35 AM by PheebyKatz

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

Interestingly, while browsing the old forum archives and reading through a past thread about lag from all the way back in 2005 I uncovered the potential cause of all SLs problems and even a suggested fix directly from the alleged source...

 

ETA: For anyone interested in a nostalgic look at the history of lag in SL then there's a great thread in the archives (also from 2005) in which Lee Linden goes into great detail about the various types of lag and their causes.

The Lag Monster Myths

Edited Thursday at 10:01 AM by Fluffy Sharkfin
Added additional link for budding SL historians.

[Ceka Cianci]

Damn, I can't find my rose colored glasses anywhere!! \o/

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Damn, I can't find my rose colored glasses anywhere!! \o/

They're perched on top of your head!

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

They're perched on top of your head!

I hate when that happens.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, DevlinMcDermott said:

Exactly!

The whole world of SL is built on the previous architecture. Textured and designed to look good and functional on the previous architecture.

Think they’re coming back and rebuilding in updated look? LOL Start from scratch and rebuild? Fat chance.

What’s going to happen when SL/LL even goes further and introduces even more upgrades.

You're going to have a entire grid of white walls and floors and geometric shapes to look at. Everywhere! Or if SL gets rid of the structures entirely,. . Endless and Endless and Endless of empty land.

And they’ll have you paying premium prices for an empty grid. Just as they are already raising their prices for you to upload the new textures,.

It will then take you decades just to build something decent to look at. And of course they are going to raise their prices and move features you now enjoy freely behind a pay wall.  Because they'll need somebody to recoup their costs. When the grid is predominately empty of those that were once there, 

What will finally end it for me is when the decide to eliminate prims from the grid.

[Ceka Cianci]

43 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

What will finally end it for me is when the decide to eliminate prims from the grid.

I don't think that is going to happen.. There is still so much use for them.

My place up in the air is mostly prim.

Since I only have a quarter of a sim I can't change the sim ground texture, so I had to use a sculptie tool that molds to your terraforming.

My land is covered in sculpties, which you need prims to make sculpties.

the other three sections of the sim are green grass where mine is all sand and  the little grass that I've added.

Edited Thursday at 12:59 PM by Ceka Cianci

[Vivienne Schell]

6 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said:

And? 1999, 2005, 2006? Those are yesteryears. Also, if you haven't yet a social network/meeting ground in SL ... then you are doing something wrong. Not SL, not LL, but you.

99.999999999999999999 percent of humankind have a social network/meeting ground off SL. They must be doing something wrong, right`?

[Modulated]

44 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

What will finally end it for me is when the decide to eliminate prims from the grid.

I really don't see them doing that, it would take something monumental for them to do so IMO.

[Vivienne Schell]

9 minutes ago, Modulated said:

I really don't see them doing that, it would take something monumental for them to do so IMO.

Edited Thursday at 01:10 PM by Vivienne Schell

[Ceka Cianci]

6 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Bleh, Wednesdays..

hehehe

[Ayashe Ninetails]

6 hours ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Clearly you've never teleported to a Telehub with a sim-sized multi-tier mall built around it!

Maaan, those were the days.

SL's been an endless sea of empty stores and brutal lag for me forever. I joined in 2005, and it took me what, all of an hour to find myself lost in these insanely huge mega-malls that took up entire sims. Multi-floor, a zillion merchants, lag like whoa. And every time I'd see one of those rental cubes, I'd get tempted to learn to build because suuuuurellllyyy THIS was the best way to make some money for shopping! 😂

That's not counting those monster builds filled to the ceiling with freebie boxes and entire sims dedicated to yard sales, either. And big brands like Nomine, Curious Kitties, Gurl6, BareRose, etc. And every single club or event venue surrounded by its own huge mall. Forget your costume for the Halloween contest? Walk three steps towards the venue and grab one on the way in.

Me: Gee, I wonder what this Second Life thing is all about, I heard there's shopping...

Second Life:

 

🤣 It's been a shopping and lagging paradise for as long as I can remember. My PCs were never top of the line, so I struggled since Day 1, but it was always manageable (even in those locations).

Edited Thursday at 03:29 PM by Ayashe Ninetails
Grammaring

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

4 hours ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Clearly you've never teleported to a Telehub with a sim-sized multi-tier mall built around it!

Maaan, those were the days.

SL's been an endless sea of empty stores and brutal lag for me forever. I joined in 2005, and it took me what, all of an hour to find myself lost in these insanely huge mega-malls that took up entire sims. Multi-floor, a zillion merchants, lag like whoa. And every time I'd see one of those rental cubes, I'd get tempted to learn to build because suuuuurellllyyy THIS was the best way to make some money for shopping! 😂

The good old days! You'd never know what is IN the mall, until you patiently waited for the stuff nearest you to rez.  Plus, with no way to "search", and possibly no "mall directory" (with tiny merchant booths and kiosks), it was a pure process of discovery.

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The good old days! You'd never know what is IN the mall, until you patiently waited for the stuff nearest you to rez.  Plus, with no way to "search", and possibly no "mall directory" (with tiny merchant booths and kiosks), it was a pure process of discovery.

Oh yeah, so true. No directory half the time because stores were always coming and going on a daily basis. And rez times were abysmal with nothing to look at but full-bright pillars and blurry floors while waiting.

[Vivienne Schell]

38 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Oh yeah, so true. No directory half the time because stores were always coming and going on a daily basis. And rez times were abysmal with nothing to look at but full-bright pillars and blurry floors while waiting.

i guess the anarchist, mostly broken touch, the feeling of explorig something "new", and the total surreality of "old" SL was pretty important for attracting people. Once it became more or less tamed and "normal", like a somewhat failing attempt to copy paste RL into 3D, and more like a business instead of a crazy, borked playground it started to decline.

Edited Thursday at 02:19 PM by Vivienne Schell

[Dorientje Woller]

4 hours ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Anyone that's experienced telehub malls will know that slow loading times, "treacle physics" and slideshow-style frame rates are nothing new to SL, there were days where your chances of getting timed out before the teleport even finished were around 50/50.

But, but, but ... those aren't bugs ... those are features.