View now shifts on sitting - Both FS and Linden Viewers.

[Chic Aeon]

I had started this in the animation forum but it seems like this is the place it actually needs to be. 

 

I am about to give up on this but thought I would ask if this is a known issue.  I know there are some major (marked as trivia in the FS viewer's JIRA) issues with touch doing many things it should not like teleporting and saying an item isn't for sale etc.  BUT I have this same problem in the Linden viewer.

 

I have a couch as part of a larger build. Put animations in as usual. All looks fine when testing with AV sitter active. BUT when I test as a finished product the view shirts 180 degrees  to the back of the head (in my case the back of the shelter the couch is in).  I redid all the poses from scratch on JUST the couch and the same things happens. I can't ever remember seeing this.   Not only does it switch view in Z axis but it also tilts the camera some.  VERY messy.  SOMETIMES however it works as it should.  But just part of the time isn't going to work out well.  

 

So if anyone knows what is going on and how to fix it I would be appreciative.  If not I will switch to Plan B and leave the poses out of the build.  

OK I just went over an tested some furniture that WAS WORKING fine yesterday and now I am getting the same issue with it.  So I am "guessing" that it isn't what I have done that is the problem.    

 

Here is what I see when I sit down (not my furniture and it was working yesterday).   Again, this is NOT viewer specific so reinstally FS won't help.

 

Ideas?  

 

 

Thanks.  

 

ADDING -- my view is fine when I am walking around and I didn't make any changes to it.  In fact I only use the Linden viewer for testing and aside from a EEP light change everything is at the defaults.   

Edited November 4, 2021 by Chic Aeon
adding info

[Qie Niangao]

Where the cam is positioned is always complicated, and seating add further complexity, so there are a host of possible explanations for misbehavior. This particular cam placement, however, seems very odd indeed. My first suggestion would be to try it with an alt (if you haven't already), mostly on the theory that there's something you're wearing with a very buggy idea of where your cam should go under some weird circumstance you only trigger while seated in a particular way.

Ordinarily, I'd guess this were in the sat-upon object, and maybe it still is; the typical explanation would be that the specific link on which you end up seated has a cam property set with llSetCameraEyeOffset() and it's not always easy to predict which link will be sat upon if there are multiple links that had sit target parameters set. (It's reasonably easy to scrub all those, along with all the camera Eye and AtOffsets.) I'm doubtful these are the problem here, though, because you say "All looks fine when testing with AV sitter active", presumably with no changes to the linkset afterwards—although I'm curious what's driving the animations and sitting positions when AVsitter is not active.

[Odaks]

Ever since I used Firestorm's camera settings to save my preferred view angles, I've found some very funny angles result when sitting on furniture. Wherever I have moddable items of my own, I've used Auto-cam for Furniture to set the default camera angle for that particular piece of furniture, and that fixes the problem nicely. Non-moddable stuff remains the usual PIA.

I can't be sure that it was using FS's settings that caused the problem, but I have a feeling that that was when I noticed the camera angles of furniture going astray.

[Chic Aeon]

OK. I tested with two different alts. One alt it worked fine (male), the other (female) had the same issues. MY issues with the stool at my house were gone but then I logged the guy in again and he had issues. Issues with BOTH FS and Linden viewers.   No clue at all why it is so haphazard.   So I will change the design and it will become "décor" and not sit-able.  I have over a week to finish this and it was done (I thought) so maybe it will fix itself.  It seems like a server code issue but no one else seems to be having it, so maybe not.  I did change clothes and then it worked and then it didn't.  Too messy for me LOL.  This was supposed to be a FUN project. 

Thanks for responding.

 

[Chic Aeon]

I could use some testers. Especially folks who aren't having FS issues :D.   

While I didn't make any changes, it seems to be working this morning.  I am thinking it is "me" and nothing that I did to make this problem since sits also aren't working correctly (or weren't) on furniture I know WAS WORKING a day ago.  So if anyone has the time I would appreciate a try out and some feedback. If it is just me I'll call it good and not worry about it. 

 

Setup is here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Moon Beach/159/113/2002

 

Thanks. 

[Chic Aeon]

So a helpful volunteer tester arrived and it is indeed wrong, not just me. I am going to try the invisible second prim (two people sit) root and see if that solves the issue. If not, I am making clutter for the messy couch.  Not seeing any clear answer or reasoning behind the problem which IS frustrating. 

 

Will report later. 

[Chic Aeon]

Wanted to add to this thread that I checked a couch that I made earlier in the year for Advent and then packed away.  It worked perfectly a few months ago and now it exhibits that same 180 behavior.   I can't see that this is "me" at all.   I hope it get's fixed soon.  I also tested with both FS and LL viewers.  

 

That's all I know.  Maybe we will have a fix on the next server update if it is indeed that.   

[Qie Niangao]

I sent in a couple of alts to test yesterday (while I was in a meeting), one running the Linden viewer, the other Firestorm, and their cams behaved identically—and predictably: they got stuck behind the wall that's linked behind the seat. Now that's perfectly normal and it's one reason many (most?) furniture ends up with persistent cam parameter settings (which is what I think @Odakscalled "Auto-cam"); AVsitter includes features to set that parameter or to control the cam specific to individual poses. Because I didn't see anything like what's depicted above, however, I still can't guess what could be causing that (although setting the cam parameters should be an easy and common enough fix).

Edited November 5, 2021 by Qie Niangao
"yesterday" in case that helps narrow what version was tested

[Lucia Nightfire]

On 11/4/2021 at 9:23 AM, Chic Aeon said:

Setup is here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Moon Beach/159/113/2002

What I see with the two pieces at the location above is no camera eye & at offset set nor llSetCameraParams() usage.

So, upon camera reset (hitting ESC) my camera will go behind my head aiming at the back of my head, which is what I currently have my view in Firestorm set for (Rear view).

The lack of the aforementioned function usage is why zooming in/out via mouse wheel is still possible.

This is what I've seen with such setups for years.

I do not use Firestorm's nor any viewer's custom camera angles feature.

I also do not use an AO that uses pre-assigned camera angles with sitting.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Lucia Nightfire

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

What I see with the two pieces at the location above is no camera eye & at offset set nor llSetCameraParams() usage.

So, upon camera reset (hitting ESC) my camera will go behind my head aiming at the back of my head, which is what I currently have my view in Firestorm set for (Rear view).

The lack of the aforementioned function usage is why zooming in/out via mouse wheel is still possible.

This is what I've seen with such setups for years.

I do not use Firestorm's nor any viewer's custom camera angles feature.

I also do not use an AO that uses pre-assigned camera angles with sitting.

But does that explain why furniture that used to work just fine no longer does? And with the Linden viewer with absolutely NO changes except an EEP setting?   I have never done anything fancy with my furniture and again, it isn't just my furniture and not just me and not just Firestorm, so I am completely stumped. All I know is that I don't feel that I can put it out for SALE in the current condition and climate.   If there is a way to fix this issue for everyone then that would be useful to know.    I am not good with scripts however so there is no way I can write anything :D. 

 

The same issue occurs for all uses that have tested and in at least FS and LL viewers (maybe others, not sure). 

 

Appreciate you taking the time.  

[Lucia Nightfire]

5 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

But does that explain why furniture that used to work just fine no longer does? And with the Linden viewer with absolutely NO changes except an EEP setting?   I have never done anything fancy with my furniture and again, it isn't just my furniture and not just me and not just Firestorm, so I am completely stumped. All I know is that I don't feel that I can put it out for SALE in the current condition and climate.   If there is a way to fix this issue for everyone then that would be useful to know.    I am not good with scripts however so there is no way I can write anything :D. 

 

The same issue occurs for all uses that have tested and in at least FS and LL viewers (maybe others, not sure).

 

Appreciate you taking the time.  

default
{
    touch_end(integer i)
    {
        if (llDetectedKey(0) == llGetOwner())
        {
            if (llGetLinkKey(llGetNumberOfPrims()) == llGetOwner())
            {
                llRequestPermissions(llGetOwner(),PERMISSION_TRACK_CAMERA);
            }
            else
            {
                llOwnerSay("You must be sitting on me in order for me to capture your camera position and rotation.");
            }
        }
    }
    run_time_permissions(integer i)
    {
        if (i & PERMISSION_TRACK_CAMERA)
        {
            rotation cam_rot = llGetCameraRot() / llGetRot(); //link relative camera rotation
            vector cam_pos = (llGetCameraPos() - llGetPos()) / llGetRot(); //link relative camera position
            llSetLinkCamera(LINK_THIS,cam_pos,cam_pos + llRot2Fwd(cam_rot));
            llOwnerSay("Camera view captured! Stand up, resit and press ESC to see camera offset.");
        }
    }
}

Save a copy of this script in your inventory.

Drop into your furniture.

Sit on the furniture.

Alt-cam your furniture and adjust your camera angle to the desired view.

Click the furniture and receive the message your camera was captured.

Stand up, resit and press ESC if your camera wasn't already following you.

You should now see the same camera angle you captured earlier.

The script is based off of the example here. I was going to post the script I wrote a few years ago, but it is more complicated.

The way camera offset works is, it will check the first link that has a camera offset set and will use that for all sitters unless the link a sitter is sitting on has one set itself, in which case, that will be used for that sitter.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Lucia Nightfire

[Chic Aeon]

Thanks. Will give that a try. Currently "my" furniture is working correctly  (I KNOW this won't last LOL) but I TPed over to the beach sim and tried sitting in a Nutmeg chair and my view was the outside of the wall of the house.   

The script didn't work in the Nutmeg chair most likely because there were already a lot of scripts IN the Nutmeg chair, but I did get it to work in my build.  Very clever. But, now when you get UP you see the back of the wall so still not what I think of as normal behavior.  Hopefully "normal" will come back to us some day :D.   

 

Appreciate you sharing!      

[Coby Foden]

@Chic Aeon

I tried this and it seems to work consistently every time when sitting down.

To save a camera position for furniture in AVSitter2 for all sitters.
• First sit on furniture and adjust your camera how you like to view the furniture, and then:
• In the [NEW] menu, choose [CAMERA] then [SAVE]. This will save your camera view for all sitters in the prim.

(Note: You need to have [AV]adjuster script and [AV]helper object in the furniture contents to be able to get the NEW menu.)

To remove all camera settings from the object, choose [CAMERA] then [CLEAR].
Changes to camera settings will take effect the next time you sit.

Note: The camera setting is a prim property and does not require anything to be placed in the AVpos notecard.

https://avsitter.github.io/avsitter2_home.html#camera

ETA: This works only if your camera is free to move, not hard focused on anything.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Coby Foden
Camera must be free note added

[Chic Aeon]

Thanks Coby. I tested that quite a bit including the Linden viewer. It seems to be the best solution overall. 

 

@Coby Foden

Edited November 6, 2021 by Chic Aeon
adding poke

[Lucia Nightfire]

12 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Very clever. But, now when you get UP you see the back of the wall so still not what I think of as normal behavior.

If a sit object uses either camera at/eye offset or llSetCameraParams(), when you stand up your camera should be released.

If it is actively following you, ie, not alt cammed on anything and you are using Rear view, it should go behind you.

If there is a wall in between you and its following distance, it might go behind it.

It would take some kind of environment monitoring camera control AO/app to prevent this.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Lucia Nightfire

[Chic Aeon]

I understand that. What I am saying = or trying to -- is FOR ME over the last decade or so the camera hasn't been doing that. My camera stays where it is when I get up and I see myself GETTING UP.  It doesn't shift to the side or to the back.    If everyone always HAS the problem (well not everyone obviously as I have not -- but if it is typical) then I guess it isn't a big deal.   I have it now (I think) so that the camera only goes to the back of the head when you stand up.  I remember that from the REALLY old days, just not any of the current past years.   I have no idea what setting has been "fixing" that (in my mind) for me.  

 

I have everything done and packed up and I really don't SIT that often anyway LOL, so it's all OK.    One thing I have noticed over the long years is that typcially we expect everyone else's SL to be like OUR SL --- which of course it is not. There are too many choices and variables for us to all be on the same exact page together.   That WAS one thing in Sansar. As creators we knew exactly what our audience would see.  That was a nice thing. It took away some of their freedom however -- and that was not so nice.

 

 

Moving on. Shopping. Making snow. Decorating   ===