Tilia Terms of Service

[Sadie Colter]

I did not see the Tilia Terms of Service appear on my dashboard until today, November 5, 2019.

 I have read conflicting answers to the following question in different forums and in listening to the Open forum:

Does one who has no USD wallet and never plans to have one have to accept the Tilia Terms of Service to be able to continue in Second Life?

[Alyona Su]

2 minutes ago, Sadie Colter said:

I did not see the Tilia Terms of Service appear on my dashboard until today, November 5, 2019.

 I have read conflicting answers to the following question in different forums and in listening to the Open forum:

Does one who has no USD wallet and never plans to have one have to accept the Tilia Terms of Service to be able to continue in Second Life?

No, as I understand it, it only is required if you transfer pretend money (Linden Dollars) into real world money (Legal Tender for real money).

[Sadie Colter]

Thank you.  How do I bypass it?  I can't seem to find a way.

[Alyona Su]

If you cannot bypass it, then they've changed it so you must accept it. So you can either accept it or never login.

[Lindal Kidd]

EVERYONE must accept the Tilia Terms of Service.  What you get out of, if you never transfer any money out of Second Life, is having to provide additional personal information.

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, Sadie Colter said:

I did not see the Tilia Terms of Service appear on my dashboard until today, November 5, 2019.

 I have read conflicting answers to the following question in different forums and in listening to the Open forum:

Does one who has no USD wallet and never plans to have one have to accept the Tilia Terms of Service to be able to continue in Second Life?

When the Tilia TOS first appeared at the beginning of August ONLY those who had a USD balance needed to accept. Some of us went to GREAT lengths to get that concession.   IF you have no USD wallet then you should not have to accept the TOS. If it is looking MANDATORY then you might want to chat up support.    I see nothing on my dashboard and I have not accepted the Tilia TOS. I also have no USD balance (that was a condition of bypassing the TOS agreement). I also stopped exchanging any linden dollars for USD.  

 

So something seems off here.  And @Lindal Kidd  that has not been the case as I know a ton of folks that didn't have to sign BECAUSE they cashed out all their USD to Paypal before Tilia took over.    IF that is happening now, it is a CHANGE. One that I haven't seen published. So if you have information on that I am sure many of us would like to see it.  

 

Thanks.

 

[Lindal Kidd]

Chic, here's a quote from LL's blog post when they initially announced the switchover to Tilia:

Effective August 1, in order to continue using Second Life you will have to agree to Tilia’s Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.  A Tilia Account associated with your Second Life Account will automatically be created for you and you will not need a separate username or password to access your Tilia Account.  

In order to stay in compliance with regulatory requirements, if you wish to process a credit, we will need certain personal information to verify your identity, including your name, address, date of birth, and social security number (or government-issued identification if you are not a U.S. Citizen).  You may be required to provide additional information to complete the transaction. Tilia will securely store this information so that you should only need to provide it once.

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Chic, here's a quote from LL's blog post when they initially announced the switchover to Tilia:

Effective August 1, in order to continue using Second Life you will have to agree to Tilia’s Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.  A Tilia Account associated with your Second Life Account will automatically be created for you and you will not need a separate username or password to access your Tilia Account.  

In order to stay in compliance with regulatory requirements, if you wish to process a credit, we will need certain personal information to verify your identity, including your name, address, date of birth, and social security number (or government-issued identification if you are not a U.S. Citizen).  You may be required to provide additional information to complete the transaction. Tilia will securely store this information so that you should only need to provide it once.

Yes there WAS but how could you have missed all the fairly volatile hubub with the end result that changing the original announcement ?   I probably wrote a whole book on the subject here -- a BIG book.    Grumpity explained at the Town Hall meeting on Tilia exactly how folks could keep using Second Life (after LL had changed their mind from their original announcement) WITHOUT having to agree to the Tilia Terms of Service AND the Tilia Privacy Statement (the US version).      

Anyone who wants more historical info, the big thread on the subject was "Tilia Takes Over".  Repeating that all those who never had a US dollar balance as well as those that took steps to get rid of their USD balance (usually leftover from converting lindens to dollars and then paying tier with some "change" still in the account) did NOT HAVE TO SIGN the Tilia TOS  or Privacy Agreement.   I didn't sign, my alts didn't sign and many of my RL friends didn't sign and we are all still here and logging in. We just aren't taking part in the US dollar economy any longer.   

So I am still puzzled by the  OPs predicament. 

 

Here is the Town Hall video where it is explained how people could "bypass" the Tilia TOS acceptance. On I side note I can't believe there were only 49 people that watched this video.   Me counting as three of them :D.

 

 

 

[Lindal Kidd]

Huh.  Well, I followed that long thread.  I confess, I didn't watch the Town Hall video.  Somehow, the change in policy went in one ear and out the other.  Question:  Is there anything in written official Linden policy that supports that change?  Maybe they changed their minds again.

[Chic Aeon]

2 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Huh.  Well, I followed that long thread.  I confess, I didn't watch the Town Hall video.  Somehow, the change in policy went in one ear and out the other.  Question:  Is there anything in written official Linden policy that supports that change?  Maybe they changed their minds again.

Well there is THIS official announcement which isn't really correct -- since it "seems" to say that there was never a plan for EVERYONE to sign the Tilia  TOS -- and as you stated correctly, that WAS the original announcement.   But it does state clearly  that the USD balance is the deciding factor. Well maybe not CLEARLY. There are many other official mentions and Grumpity came on the "Tilia Takes Over" thread a time or two so looking at her postings would probably clarify and confirm.  LL abandoned the official FAQ thread (seemingly when too many tough questions remained unanswered). 

And it may say something clarifying  in the Knowledge Base article but Google didn't find that readily.   A transcript of the Tilia Town Hall was promised (honestly if you didn't speak English well you had NO CLUE what was going on) but NEVER appeared.  The handling of the Tilia changeover was IMO one of the worst things LL has done in a decade. Not the rules changes that  (in some sense anyway)  they needed to comply with US legalities, but the WAY they went about it all.    Belli kinda balanced out that oh so poorly handled fiasco -- thank goodness for Belli. 

 

 

[Sammiethesprite]

It's a bit disconcerting.  I knew about the Tilia thing, but was a bit taken aback to find I had to suddenly accept the Tilia TOS to log in, today.  All because... as near as I can figure from the forums... all because the other day, I bought something outside of my Linden balance, with fiat currency, and because the system won't let you spend less than a US dollar, it charged me a dollar... and now I have eight cents in my US wallet.  I understand that unless I try to cash out a balance, then I really shouldn't have to do anything else, but it still irks me that to log into my account, I had to agree to something I didn't ask for (having a US balance they could have had the eight cents, seriously).

[bigmoe Whitfield]

7 hours ago, Sammiethesprite said:

It's a bit disconcerting.  I knew about the Tilia thing, but was a bit taken aback to find I had to suddenly accept the Tilia TOS to log in, today.  All because... as near as I can figure from the forums... all because the other day, I bought something outside of my Linden balance, with fiat currency, and because the system won't let you spend less than a US dollar, it charged me a dollar... and now I have eight cents in my US wallet.  I understand that unless I try to cash out a balance, then I really shouldn't have to do anything else, but it still irks me that to log into my account, I had to agree to something I didn't ask for (having a US balance they could have had the eight cents, seriously).

I had 11 cents,  I bought lindens, making sure I calculated in that 11 cents and it dropped it to zero.  it's still asking me for information, but I'm not cashing out on that account.

[Chic Aeon]

10 hours ago, Sammiethesprite said:

It's a bit disconcerting.  I knew about the Tilia thing, but was a bit taken aback to find I had to suddenly accept the Tilia TOS to log in, today.  All because... as near as I can figure from the forums... all because the other day, I bought something outside of my Linden balance, with fiat currency, and because the system won't let you spend less than a US dollar, it charged me a dollar... and now I have eight cents in my US wallet.  I understand that unless I try to cash out a balance, then I really shouldn't have to do anything else, but it still irks me that to log into my account, I had to agree to something I didn't ask for (having a US balance they could have had the eight cents, seriously).

The minute you get ANY lindens in your USD account that is triggered. I believe (this from my interpretation of Grumpity's many reiterations during the Tilia Town meeting which hopefully you can still watch on YouTube) that getting rid of your USD balance (as many of us did) would negate the need to accept the Tilia TOS on August 1.   That was the only concession that we got, but I was very happy with that one.  August 1 has come and gone and the three month "extension" to accept the Tilia TOS has also passed.  I checked the account that I used to use to cash out to Paypal and while it was whitelisted  this summer when Tilia came into being, it is no longer so  -- hence more info is being requested. Hence no cashing out for me.  

 

Sorry you got caught on this. A good lessen to others that it might impact. Not sure if LL will do anything for you or if you are just stuck.  Good luck. 

[Lindal Kidd]

Sammie, besides the problem that you ran into, there's an even better reason to NEVER use $USD to buy anything in SL directly.  The Marketplace does allow you to do this, but it makes everything way more expensive.  Here is why:

When you buy something on the MP using $USD, LL will immediately buy the correct amount of $L for you, at the current market price, and will charge you the standard $1.49 transaction fee for purchasing $L.  So, if you bought a dress that costs $L300 ($1.18 USD equivalent), it actually costs you $1.18 + $1.49 = $2.67 USD ($L680 equivalent).

If you don't have enough $L to buy something, ALWAYS go to the LindEx and buy $L first, then go back and do your shopping.  By buying your $L in bigger chunks, you minimize the impact of that $1.49 transaction fee.

[Sammiethesprite]

Yeah... I do realise that the transaction fee kicks in if you do a direct purchase- I don't usually do that.

Something as innocuous as that is what threw me- that's why I posted (besides needing to vent). So dummies like me would be aware that's a way to find yourself forced to accept the terms- the arguments that it's been Tilia for some time, anyway, convinced me to tick the box- although the moment they want more from me, when I'm not trying to cash out, I'll be a very unseelie fae and liable to say some very rude things ...

Although it irked me to tick the box, as long as I don't cash out, then I'll live and let live. 

I added some Lindens, and I notice they must have drawn from the USD balance, because it's once again at zero.  

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Sammiethesprite

[Lindal Kidd]

11 hours ago, Sammiethesprite said:

I added some Lindens, and I notice they must have drawn from the USD balance, because it's once again at zero. 

That's expected behavior.  LL always draws from your $USD balance first, unless you've specified another payment option.