Qwalyphi Korpov Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 To whom it may concern:http://www.pcworld.com/article/2905407/cloud-gaming-pioneer-onlive-sold-to-sony-will-cease-operations-april-30.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomarax Davidov Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Yep, I got an email about this today. It's really awful. I have been a subscriber to SL Go for a number of months and I absolutely adore it: I haven't been this happy with SL in years. I don't know what I'm going to do now: The native SL client makes my laptop -- a top of the line MacBook Pro -- run insanely hot even when just sitting idle or running with the lowest possible settings. It also precludes the possibility of doing more than one thing at any given time on my computer. But SL Go has been such a complete godsend, and I just don't think I could go back to the way things used to be. I started my Go subscription up right just after I bought my new computer (after I replaced my last one due to hardware failure) and have vowed to never ever run the main SL client on it again. I was willing to pay the subscription fees for the sole reason that there was far less chance that I'd burn out another GPU because of Second Life. So I guess what I'm rambling on about comes to this... Is there a chance that Linden Labs will either: 1) Put some kind of software limiters into the SL client such that it just won't cause machines like mine to run as hot as a burner on a stove, or otherwise improve the graphics rendering pipeline such that it would have the same effect? or 2) Do some kind of in-house streaming solution sort of like the way that Steam does with their in-home streaming -- but server side to be similar to what we're losing with OnLive? Absent some sort of solution like that -- or at the very, very least a decent SL chat app for OS X that isn't SLiteChat (which is dangerous to use if someone sends you inventory because it will just vanish into the ether -- and hasn't been updated since 2011), or Radegast (which is just a totally broken app on OS X that also runs hot like the full client and requires an entire Mono environment to run and is also not being developed any longer) -- I just don't know what I'm going to do. I won't go back to the way things were before. Honestly, if you want to know my opinion on the matter. And maybe you don't, but I'm going to give it anyway. One of the reasons why the people leave SL is because it's tough to integrate into our lives. There are just so many barriers to staying in touch with the people we meet here. Our options for simple tasks -- like logging in to say hi to friends when we are out and about in the real world -- are limited to some pretty awful apps like Pocket Metaverse. It's one of the worst apps on iOS. You folks at Linden Labs should be making it easier for people to want to come here and stay -- not drive them away. I've thrown a lot of money at the SL economy since I've joined, but it gets harder and harder to justify it when I feel like things aren't being improved. There is always this constant threat that everything is just going to go away somehow and that we'll all be left out in the cold. Why don't you have really great first party mobile and desktop apps for all platforms? If I were inventing a virtual universe, I'd take it upon myself to design a whole suite of interface apps that blur the line between second life and first. Like a text/voice chat app for iPhone, etc, etc, etc. Just something to be really creative instead of -- oh hey, we've made the SL client into a web browser now. I'm sorry this turned out to be long-winded, but this SL Go thing -- which I entirely recognize is Sony's fault -- really was the last straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwine Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Wow. That stinks especially for those that spent money on games and stuff for Onlive. Maybe they were ahead of their time. As Jessica Lyon says over ont he firestorm blog, I hope there are other options to fill the gap it leaves behind. "I can tell you that all of us here at Firestorm, AND the folks at OnLive are greatly disappointed by this news. Things were really just getting started and what they were offering really plugged a hole for users on older computer systems that nothing else provides as of right now. This hole will only get wider in the near future as well since XP operating systems will no longer be supported on the Second Life viewer and not long after Firestorm as well. We, as users of Second Life and OpenSim are now without this option and the good folks at OnLive are out of work. So while I anticipate some of you may feel some anger over this news please understand there is no one to blame but Business. None of us could have predicted this sudden end to something which had really just begun. If any good could come of this for us it may be that at the very least OnLive has demonstrated quite clearly that there is a strong demand for software that can run Second Life on older computer systems. Perhaps someone out there may pick up the ball." http://www.firestormviewer.org/onlive-sold-sl-go-to-end-april-30th/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Hi Tomarax, I'm not sure why your Mac can't run SL. I'm still able to run it on low graphics using my 2007 Macbook Pro and my 2011 Macbook Air. Neither experience is terribly pleasant, but they work. Have you tried turning graphics to low and pulling in your draw distance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomarax Davidov Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I think you may have misread what I wrote. I'm sorry for the confusion, but let me be clear: The native SL client has been damaging to my hardware over time, but SL Go solves this problem perfectly by offloading all the GPU intensive work such that I'm not completely destroying my system through heat damage. I realize that you're trying to help me troubleshoot what you've identified as a solvable user problem, but please understand that a support issue is not the source of my complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NytStalker Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 ya,it's just like when GAMESPY ARCADE closed down 109 online pc games DEAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Regenbogen Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Tomarax Davidov wrote: I don't know what I'm going to do now: The native SL client makes my laptop -- a top of the line MacBook Pro -- run insanely hot even when just sitting idle or running with the lowest possible settings. Tomarax, get "SMCFanControl" and use it to manually push up the fan speed to maximum when running SL. The automatic fan speed control from Apple doesn't work good enough to keep the temps down under the impact of the SL viewer, at least with any kind of MacBook. With mine it makes a difference of roughty 85C to 60C (185F to 140F). The MacBook becomes a noisy **bleep**, but at least not an oven plate :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomarax Davidov Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Thanks for trying to help, Daniel. I appreciate your suggestion, but I'm very well-acquainted with that particular app, and I don't believe that it's enough to prevent long term damage given my previous experiences. I religiously used physical cooling pads and pushed that app to maximum with my previous two MacBook Pros. There are plenty of CPU/GPU intensive apps out there which don't cause my laptop -- a mid-2014 MacBook Pro -- to act like it's about to explode. The problem is systemic with this particular software and really needs to be addressed, but the chances of that are not likely unless the Lindens are doing some really major changes and aren't telling us about it. Hence -- again -- why I'm pretty concerned now that SL Go is vanishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 A simple step that you can take to reduce heat. In the viewer debug settings, set YieldTime to something between say 40 to 100. Play with it. Yes, SL will run a little slower but whether you notice it at all is a different matter and if it means that you don't kill the machine, that's a plus yes? I have an old laptop that used to run a bot. The difference between YieldTime of 0 and YieldTime of 200 was either the keyboard reaching 60 degrees C (yes really!) or running completely cool. 200ms suited a bot as it didn't really do much that needed an interactive experience. Similarly, in the Firestorm viewer you can set the maximum frame rate that the GPU will reach which will also allow you to set constraints. In my PC, if I let the GPU run away instead of contraining it, it is happy to consume 60W more power. I would always prefer to reduce the heat generation in the first place than stress another component such as the fan by exceeding its duty cycle. Oh the other thing if you're not already, invest in a GOOD fan base that sits underneath the laptop, that will help considerably too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Tomarax Davidov wrote: The problem is systemic with this particular software and really needs to be addressed What on earth gives you the idea that your specific overheating problems are systemic? If they were, I assure you, we'd have see numerous people posting here about similar issues... the truth of the matter is that we haven't seen any such thing. I'm not saying that it's not an issue for some people besides yourself, just that it doesn't occur as often as you seem to think. I know next to nothing about using Mac laptops for SL, but I do know that Maddy has used them for years without the issue of which you speak and may be able to help you mitigate your supposed damages. Yet, you chose to dismiss her input and write off her successful use of the platform on a Mac laptop as some sort of anomaly. Your assertion may be entirely correct and yet, I'd wager that my anecdotal evidence far outweighs your personal experience. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Regenbogen Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Dresden Ceriano wrote: What on earth gives you the idea that your specific overheating problems are systemic? If they were, I assure you, we'd have see numerous people posting here about similar issues... the truth of the matter is that we haven't seen any such thing. I'm not saying that it's not an issue for some people besides yourself, just that it doesn't occur as often as you seem to think. I know next to nothing about using Mac laptops for SL, but I do know that Maddy has used them for years without the issue of which you speak and may be able to help you mitigate your supposed damages. Yet, you chose to dismiss her input and write off her successful use of the platform on a Mac laptop as some sort of anomaly. Your assertion may be entirely correct and yet, I'd wager that my anecdotal evidence far outweighs your personal experience. ...Dres Dres, feel free to ask around in the Macintosh User Group, the heat problem comes up there regulary, and they are *very* SL specific. Machines that run cool in more or less any other application add 30 or more degrees within minutes of running SL. Especially for densely packed machines like notebooks heat *can* be a killer. Which, in case of Macs, not only fits the mobile ones but to some degree also the iMac or the Mini. Just a little test I did now: Within 5 minutes of starting SL, the GPU temp went from 35°C to 72°C. And that's on a 27inch iMac which has a bit more breathing room than a MacBook. (1 minute after quitting SL, it is down to 50°C already.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Good! As a technology for SecondLife it was DoA. Not scaleble, not sustainable, a sidetrack and distraction. So this is all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Daniel Regenbogen wrote: Dresden Ceriano wrote: What on earth gives you the idea that your specific overheating problems are systemic? If they were, I assure you, we'd have see numerous people posting here about similar issues... the truth of the matter is that we haven't seen any such thing. I'm not saying that it's not an issue for some people besides yourself, just that it doesn't occur as often as you seem to think. I know next to nothing about using Mac laptops for SL, but I do know that Maddy has used them for years without the issue of which you speak and may be able to help you mitigate your supposed damages. Yet, you chose to dismiss her input and write off her successful use of the platform on a Mac laptop as some sort of anomaly. Your assertion may be entirely correct and yet, I'd wager that my anecdotal evidence far outweighs your personal experience. ...Dres Dres, feel free to ask around in the Macintosh User Group, the heat problem comes up there regulary, and they are *very* SL specific. Machines that run cool in more or less any other application add 30 or more degrees within minutes of running SL. Especially for densely packed machines like notebooks heat *can* be a killer. Which, in case of Macs, not only fits the mobile ones but to some degree also the iMac or the Mini. Just a little test I did now: Within 5 minutes of starting SL, the GPU temp went from 35°C to 72°C. And that's on a 27inch iMac which has a bit more breathing room than a MacBook. (1 minute after quitting SL, it is down to 50°C already.) Let me reiterate... I have very little knowledge of the Mac user experience. That being said, it doesn't surprise me in the least that SL causes such heating issues. I wouldn't find it abnormal for a computer system to rise 30 to 50 degrees above normal while using SL. Not only is SL GPU intensive, but it also reeks havoc on a system's CPU. It's quite possible that Macs (especially Mac laptop's) aren't as well equipped to deal with such pressure as are Microsoft-based PCs... I have no idea. But that wasn't my point, my point is that, if Maddy has been able to make it work for her, then, perhaps the OP could as well, if he would only listen to what she had to say, instead of arbitrarily writing her off. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Some of the Mac portables will handle the SL client quite good (those with descrete GPUs) while those with Intel integrated graphics will struggle more. There has also been systemic overheating issues with some Mac portable models througout. The first one I used for SL with Intel processor (not PowerPC) back in 2009 melted the GPU 3 times and each time the logic board was replaced under warranty, but at the end of the day I ended up getting an iMac for SL use. There are also some issues with a 2012 Macbook model, so it might be worthwile to check Apple's support pages if the serial number of the machine has an issue and is eligible for replacement. The CPU temperature on Apple portables often ends up between 85-100 deg C, the GPU somewhat lower when using the SL client Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Gavin Hird wrote: Some of the Mac portables will handle the SL client quite good (those with descrete GPUs) while those with Intel integrated graphics will struggle more. There has also been systemic overheating issues with some Mac portable models througout. The first one I used for SL with Intel processor (not PowerPC) back in 2009 melted the GPU 3 times and each time the logic board was replaced under warranty, but at the end of the day I ended up getting an iMac for SL use. There are also some issues with a 2012 Macbook model, so it might be worthwile to check Apple's support pages if the serial number of the machine has an issue and is eligible for replacement. The CPU temperature on Apple portables often ends up between 85-100 deg C, the GPU somewhat lower when using the SL client Oh, I get it... I think. You're saying that there is a systemic problem which is not necessarily due to SL, but to certain Mac portables in conjunction with the use of SL... right? ...Dres *is not fond of being so very ignorant* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 There might be. The design point for MacBook Air and MacBook is full day battery operation with "normal" use such as office, mail, web, movie playback and music. They are not really built for running the GPU full tilt for prolonged periods. The MacBook Pro should handle this fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Gavin Hird wrote: There might be. The design point for MacBook Air and MacBook is full day battery operation with "normal" use such as office, mail, web, movie playback and music. They are not really built for running the GPU full tilt for prolonged periods. The MacBook Pro should handle this fine. If you say so, Gavin... I honestly have no idea. But, I do feel badly for Tomarax. Surely his sense of lose is much stronger than mine when my local supermarket stopped carrying my favorite flavor of Alfredo sauce. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LlewLlwyd Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 TOLD ya so! The business model was never viable at any price. ***Schadenfreude is such a delightful feeling - and it applies to mac users with problems too*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomarax Davidov Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I have to say that I have a Mac with a discrete graphics card, so this has nothing to do with my side of things. I have had it happen on multiple machines -- and I have access to a number of other Macs as well and it's the same story. But you sound pretty self-assured for someone who doesn't own one at all. So let me tell you what: You go spend $2500 on a MacBook Pro and then grab the latest Second Life client and see how hot it gets in about 10 minutes. Then, your opinion might change. You're arguing from hearsay. We are actual Mac users. Don't just assume you know everything. "But, I do feel badly for Tomarax. Surely his sense of lose is much stronger than mine when my local supermarket stopped carrying my favorite flavor of Alfredo sauce." You assume a lot of things when you don't know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LlewLlwyd Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Tomarax Davidov wrote: You go spend $2500 on a MacBook Pro DRES may currently be drunk, but even fully intoxicated he's not THAT stupid. ***What's your excuse?*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 It might have to to with the Retina display which of course the SL client is not optimized for at all. I started the 3.7.27 version of the SL client on my 2012 MPB connected to a 2560 x 1440 display with the viewer running in a 1680 x 1050 window. Initial CPU/GPU temps were 64/46 and after 4 minutes it is at 100/92 (deg C). Fans starts going and brings it down to 80/72 where it keeps it. Meaning the system is happy with that temp with no alarms for any of the sensors. Corrected the SL version that was missing a 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Tomarax Davidov wrote: I have to say that I have a Mac with a discrete graphics card, so this has nothing to do with my side of things. I have had it happen on multiple machines -- and I have access to a number of other Macs as well and it's the same story. Have you tried my suggestions yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomarax Davidov Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 This is really good advice and I will try it out this weekend to see if there is a net reduction in heat generation. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomarax Davidov Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 We ninja'd each other! :matte-motes-big-grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Don't forget to return back to say how it went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now