SL Go! going away April 30th

[Dresden Ceriano]

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

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Tomarax Davidov wrote:

You go spend $2500 on a MacBook Pro

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DRES

may currently be drunk,  but even fully intoxicated he's not THAT stupid.

***What's your excuse?***

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Damn you, Llew... stop posting what I'm thinking.

...Dres

[Gavin Hird]

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Tomarax Davidov wrote:

The problem is systemic with this particular software and really needs to be addressed, but the chances of that are not likely unless the Lindens are doing some really major changes and aren't telling us about it. 

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The chances of doing anything fundamental to the Mac viewer are slim to none. 

If you look in the About SecondLife menu item in the viewer it says Compiled with GCC version 40201.

That is a compiler Apple deprecated for system 10.6.8 and stopped supporting in 10.8 completely. It is also built with the Carbon framework and an old version of QT. It is like they would design the Windows version with a Windows 2000 target. THAT is how outdated the thing is.  The BIG thing (gasp) for the 3.7.27 version I use now is that they are able to compile it with Xcode 6.1 after hacking it to run GCC. For iOS development we are on Xcode 6.3.

To get up to speed they'd need to rewrite a good portion of the Mac viewer with the Cocoa frameworks, make it 100% 64-bit, ditch QT (which is terrible on the Mac.) use modern frameworks like CoreData, SpriteKit and SceneKit, and of course modern memory management, the built in WebKit, QuickTime, NO Flash and sandboxing to name a few. 

Unless they get the epiphany to write a viewer for iOS, it is only going to deteriorate. Only then will they be able to start making headway.  I'd say we need a SWIFT viewer!

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Tomarax Davidov wrote:

But you sound pretty self-assured for someone who doesn't own one at all. So let me tell you what: You go spend $2500 on a MacBook Pro and then grab the latest Second Life client and see how hot it gets in about 10 minutes.

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Why in living hell would I ever shell out 25 hundred bucks for a proprietary system when I could build my own at half the price, which is just as powerful if not more; and has no overheating problem whilst running a Second Life client?

...Dres  (...not to mention the ability to upgrade any component at any time I so choose.)

[Gavin Hird]

The reasons for people choosing Macs are mutliple and price is really not much of an issue at all. Making snide comments about it is futile. ;-)

What Linden Lab should ask themselves from a business standpoint.

Why on earth are they chastisizing the customer group (Mac and iOS users) who are MOST likely to accept subscription based models (Premium), are amongst the most creative and are likely to spend more money than any other customer group they can recruit?

 

 

[Sassy Romano]

Hmm, can you cite the evidence that says that Mac users are amongst the most creative or why they're more likely to spend more money than other customer groups?  Or for that matter why they are most likely to accept subscription based models?

iTunes and "creative types" (music mixers and most likely to use Photoshop etc. isn't enough)

[Gavin Hird]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

Hmm, can you cite the evidence that says that Mac users are amongst the most creative or why they're more likely to spend more money than other customer groups?  Or for that matter why they are most likely to accept subscription based models?

iTunes and "creative types" (music mixers and most likely to use Photoshop etc. isn't enough)

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You only need to look at number of applications in the iOS App store, turnover in the store, and revenue paid to developers for those apps. It is 6x higher than for the same Adnroid apps. 

Also entire creative industries were created on software originating on the Mac. Photoshop included. 

[Sassy Romano]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

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Sassy Romano wrote:

Hmm, can you cite the evidence that says that Mac users are amongst the most creative or why they're more likely to spend more money than other customer groups?  Or for that matter why they are most likely to accept subscription based models?

iTunes and "creative types" (music mixers and most likely to use Photoshop etc. isn't enough)

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You only need to look at number of applications in the iOS App store, turnover in the store, and revenue paid to developers for those apps. It is 6x higher than for the same Adnroid apps. 

Also entire creative industries were created on software originating on the Mac. Photoshop included. 

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Again, sources please?

Software "originating" on Mac does not itself make the Mac users the more "creative", define creative.  I could say that lots more software is written (created) for other platforms thus making those more creative.  It's too broad a brush and a somewhat tired story to assume that "Mac users are creative" because they use Adobe software or because they're in the music industry hence creative or whatever.

I'm completely ambivalent about it all, pick whatever platform works, it makes no difference to me but the statements you wrote were somewhat bold without proper citations, reference sources would be nice!

[LlewLlwyd]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

You only need to look at number of applications in the iOS App store, turnover in the store, and revenue paid to developers for those apps.

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YOU have to PAY for apps on iCrap?

***Next you'll be telling me that the record industry is still viable***

[Perrie Juran]

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

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Gavin Hird wrote:

You only need to look at number of applications in the iOS App store, turnover in the store, and revenue paid to developers for those apps.

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YOU

have to PAY for apps on iCrap?

***Next you'll be telling me that the record industry is still viable***

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Vinyl sales hit a record high in 2014.

[Gavin Hird]

I worked in Apple product management. I know my audience. ;-)

And for the record, Photpshop was delveloped for the Mac as was Excel originally. 

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

Making snide comments about it is futile. ;-)

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You like telling someone who's only trying to be helpful to go out and spend thousands of dollars on equipment they don't want, only to prove some meaningless point?  I fully agree with you there.

...Dres

[Gavin Hird]

Mac users don't choose OS X (which is what they choose) because of SL. It is only that when they try to, it's a total letdown because ot the technical train-wreck the Mac viewer is. 

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

I worked in Apple product management. I know my audience. ;-)

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OMG!!!  How dare we question you?  Now we know for certain that no one who isn't a complete Apple whore has any sort of creativity whatsoever.

...Dres

[Gavin Hird]

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

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Gavin Hird wrote:

I worked in Apple product management. I know my audience. ;-)

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OMG!!!  How dare we question you?  Now we know for certain that no one who isn't a complete Apple whore has any sort of creativity whatsoever.

...Dres

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Yeh, how dare you?! ;-))

[IvanBenjammin]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

I worked in Apple product management. I know my audience. ;-)

And for the record, Photpshop was delveloped for the Mac as was Excel originally. 

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Macs being used by 'creatives' became a self fulfilling thing. There was a time when Photoshop ran better on Macs because of better hardware acceleration. Those days are long gone, but somehow the stereotype persists, in part I'm sure because of bearded baristas telling their customers that 'Macs are better for graphics'.

Good displays, but nothing you can't get for PC when you're spending Mac money.

 

[LlewLlwyd]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Vinyl sales hit a

record high

in 2014.

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I wonder who is buying them?

***I don't know anyone that is, my friends don't, my kids don't and their friends don't; maybe it's just DJs who think they are artistes***

[LlewLlwyd]

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

This is no more a PR disaster for LL than for other gaming companies that used the service.

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THAT

is like saying that World War II was no more of a disaster for Germany than for Italy and Japan.

***And nowadays I reckon it's WOW and Minecraft that are competing for the majority of new users; not the minority "I'm a designer, I use iStuff" ones, but the sex, violence and gratuitous idiocy ones***

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I don't understand your analogy, or maybe you don't? You do realise which axis power was nuked, right?

[Gavin Hird]

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

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Gavin Hird wrote:

I worked in Apple product management. I know my audience. ;-)

And for the record,

Photpshop

was

delveloped

for the Mac as was Excel originally. 

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FOR

the record, a study comparing Apple and PC "audiences" found that the average reading age of documents produced on the former was mid-teens, and for PCs twenty-something, and that the former displayed

five times

as many orthographic errors of one kind or another.

***As you have conveniently demonstrated***

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For the record a study of forum posters who gripe about typos usually have English as their only language, and are out of valid arguments. ;-)

[DejaHo]

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Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:

To whom it may concern:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2905407/cloud-gaming-pioneer-onlive-sold-to-sony-will-cease-operations-april-30.html

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This article seems to settle a long standing argument played out on this forum.

 

SL is a game.  

 

[LlewLlwyd]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

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Gavin Hird wrote:

I worked in Apple product management. I know my audience. ;-)

And for the record,

Photpshop

was

delveloped

for the Mac as was Excel originally. 

---

FOR

the record, a study comparing Apple and PC "audiences" found that the average reading age of documents produced on the former was mid-teens, and for PCs twenty-something, and that the former displayed

five times

as many orthographic errors of one kind or another.

***As you have conveniently demonstrated***

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For the record a study of forum posters who gripe about typos usually have English as their only language, and are out of valid arguments. ;-)

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THAT wouldn't be me then - on either count.

***No gripe, just pointing out characteristics of the iAudience - and delighted not to be one of them****

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

---

Gavin Hird wrote:

I worked in Apple product management. I know my audience. ;-)

And for the record,

Photpshop

was

delveloped

for the Mac as was Excel originally. 

---

FOR

the record, a study comparing Apple and PC "audiences" found that the average reading age of documents produced on the former was mid-teens, and for PCs twenty-something, and that the former displayed

five times

as many orthographic errors of one kind or another.

***As you have conveniently demonstrated***

---

For the record a study of forum posters who gripe about typos usually have English as their only language, and are out of valid arguments. ;-)

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LMAO!!!  You say that as if Llewie was actually trying to make a valid argument in the first place.

...Dres

[Derek Torvalar]

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

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Gavin Hird wrote:

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

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Gavin Hird wrote:

I worked in Apple product management. I know my audience. ;-)

And for the record,

Photpshop

was

delveloped

for the Mac as was Excel originally. 

---

FOR

the record, a study comparing Apple and PC "audiences" found that the average reading age of documents produced on the former was mid-teens, and for PCs twenty-something, and that the former displayed

five times

as many orthographic errors of one kind or another.

***As you have conveniently demonstrated***

---

For the record a study of forum posters who gripe about typos usually have English as their only language, and are out of valid arguments. ;-)

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THAT

wouldn't be me then - on either count.

***No gripe, just pointing out characteristics of the iAudience - and delighted not to be one of them****

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Could you remind me again please, is the "i" signifying idiot or imbecile?

[LlewLlwyd]

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

 

Could you remind me again please, is the "i" signifying idiot or imbecile?

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iHAVEN'TACLUE

***Other interpretations are available***

[Tomarax Davidov]

Edit: This is really more a reply to Dres than it is to Gavin.

Why is it that some people feel the need to demean others instead of responding to the substance of the discussion? Keep your eye on the ball, folks. Everything else here is a distraction -- and you should avoid attacking each other personally.

SL Go shutting down is bad for Second Life because it closes an avenue that people like myself happily used to stay active in the world. Does that mean that the Lindens shouldn't already be pursuing other and better opportunities, improving their technology? Of course not. But the real world can actually handle the existence of more than one means of access to a product at any given time. And the Lindens -- if they are smart -- don't need the collapse of SL Go to already be working on improvements that will be sustainable in the long run for their core products. People work there everyday and are probably working on great things -- some of which may never see the light of day.

Because they are not being transparent about their plans for the future, I'm simply advocating on behalf of other users like myself who have found that the native SL client for OS X is really bad -- damaging to the hardware -- and that SL Go had 100% resolved that issue for me. Now I'm back to the same problem that I had before and I and probably many other Mac users like myself are understandably and justifiably concerned that we're going to get left behind for perhaps many years until another more modern solution presents itself -- hopefully in the form of a really great upgrade to the SL client app.

Why you are using this as an opportunity to attack people who use Macs is beyond me, but I'd suggest that you find something more constructive to do with your time.

Also, I'm going to take this opportunity to point something out in Dres's signature (wilfully ignoring my own advice from the first paragraph to a certain extent, but perhaps with cause): "If you can't say something nice, at least, try to sound intelligent." <-- this is the worst motto I've ever heard... basically it means, "If I don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion, then try to bull**bleep** my way through the discussion using big words that make me feel important, attacking things I don't have any personal experience with."

How about this for a motto: "If you don't have anything nice to say, then just listen to what the other person is saying and try to understand them."

[LlewLlwyd]

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Tomarax Davidov wrote:

And the Lindens --

if they are smart

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I think I may have identified a fatal flaw in your argument.

***How about: If you can't say anything nice, then don't post about Mac "performance" in a General Discussion forum***