A Club Owner's Vent and Nothing More.....

[VivaLaTease]

Being a club owner in SL in 2014 is one of the hardest jobs to be in SL.

Well in fact in my experience being a club owner since 2012 has been relatively difficult, compared to 2009 to 2011. Reasoning for this is several factors, people believe that they can make a ton of Lindons with DJing and Hosting, people believe that these are easy jobs in SL and that these positions do not require very little to much effort. This is not true.

For the past couple of years, I have experienced a lack of respect, a lack of effort and people believing that they can do what ever they like with out consequence, because in there mind they believe this is just a game and nothing more, and then they expect a ton of lindons and a ton of traffic to come into the club just for there events. Why apply to a club knowing full well that it is a smaller club? Why not go to the bigger more established clubs in SL?

YOU CAN NOT HAVE A SUCCESSFUL EVENT IN SECOND LIFE WITH OUT RELIABLE STAFF, NO RELIABLE STAFF, NO RELIABLE TRAFFIC OR TIPS.

When people know you are there, and that you are DJing or Hosting, they will come and more often. New clubs in SL are a plenty, some survive, some don't, but in order for clubs to survive, they need to have good reliable DJs and Hosts who show up and do what they agreed to do.

TO BE A SUCCESSFUL DJ, APPLY TO CLUBS THAT YOU CAN AGREE ON THERE MUSIC, OTHERWISE DO NOT APPLY! OR....YOU NEED TO BE MORE VERSATILE AND OPEN MINDED ABOUT THE MUSIC YOU SHARE.

Club owners in Second Life know that they are not going to make very little to any lindons for running a club in SL, some take a certain percentage of tips, some use AD Boards and other means to make lindons either to help put towards there parcel rent and anything that there club may require, some just like to know that they can make something to be able to spend on there own self.

OWNING A CLUB IN SL IS A MONEY PIT AND NOTHING MORE OR LESS.

I have run four business's in SL, all four were relatively successful, I ran a club from 2009 to 2011, and closed it not due to drama or lack there of, I closed it because I felt the need to run my own SL Radio station, which myself and a close friend successfully ran for approximately 8 months, due to RL financial situation and a overseas move I had to close it. Third business was a DJ school, which I ended up handing over to my close friend to run because I then decided to run my 2nd club which I started in 2012 and we are now going into our 2nd year.

Lots of ups and downs and sometimes I have to wonder if I am doing anything wrong, which I am sure with so many personalities and so many entrepreneurs out there I am probably not doing something right, but at the same time the atmosphere I have created for my DJs and Hosts as well as VIPs have always been a comfortable laid back fun environment where people can come and enjoy the local chat and music.

I have also DJd many respectful clubs in SL, and have to wonder how do they do it, and how long did it take them to get to where they are, I have a load of respect if not more for the club owners of these places, the utter most biggest respect.

My club has many rules, mostly common sense rules I call them, and really not hard rules to follow, rules such as:

* Follow the music format and era that we advertise
(We advertise, 70s, 80s and 90s music, variety, rock, pop, r&b/hip hop and dance)......Apparently even upon agreeing to this during the interview most tend to not follow it and end up leaving because they feel its a terrible rule.

* Show up 15 minutes before show to set up, contacting the DJ or Host before you for the hand over.

* Scheduled gigs are permanent, any changes to your schedule communicate with management so we can work with you. If you can't make your scheduled gig due to RL, contact management or shift support.

* Hosts must post there events in VIP no later then 15 minutes before there gig starts and in IMs also. always a 1/2 way notice. But no more then two notices and IMs during an event. But get into IMs every now and then to say hello and such.

* Everyone always must greet people as they come and be talkative, make people feel welcomed. Always be social in local.

WE JOINED SL TO BE SOCIAL, TO MEET AND TALK TO OTHERS IN LOCAL

But according to some DJs and Hosts these days, these are horrible rules or to hard of rules to follow and my club will fail due to these rules.

Well not sure what clubs they have been visiting, but these are the most basic of rules that ALL clubs that I know of have at there clubs, some are even more strict lol.

What ever happened to the passion of DJing and Hosting in Second Life?
I know there are many old school DJs out there and hosts to who have to understand where I am coming from, even old school club owners and new school to.

What has happened to SL where people feel that they can treat others this way, not just club owners, but other business's, what ever happened to just having fun and enjoying what clubs and different places have to offer.

Clubs and Business's in SL have basic to not so basic rules to help keep there club or business running effectively and smoothly, so that also DJs and Hosts know where they stand and so that they know what to do if a crisis or something comes up.

Rules also help with boundaries, we have certain rules set in place so that we don't have people who do use there common sense having there events ruined by others who do not care for boundaries and like to upset and hurt people on purpose.

Rules help to keep everything organized and peaceful as well as to evolve and to get along the best way we can as a club and a team. With out rules, people wouldn't know what to do, where to go and how to do it.

My reasoning for this is because im frustrated, and I am frustrated because I have a passion to run a club in SL, to share music with others in SL, to make and to create new friendships with people who share the same passion.
Who have the urge to share a song that they heard on the radio with 15 of there regular VIPs, to talk about there day in local chat with others. I feel the need to create a place where people can find that new friendship or even romance, a place where DJs and Hosts can just relax and enjoy the atmosphere.

Tips and traffic are the icing on the cake, but in order to make those tips and that traffic you need to work hard, and its not hard if you have the drive and passion for it. If you apply to work at a club, and they say they are only 80s music, and you play a 90s song, and get IMd about it because it was the wrong thing to do, and then VIPs leave and you don't get tipped, take responsibility for it, don't **bleep** out the club or the VIPs for it.
People can sense if you are a crap host or DJ lol so if you don't do what is expected of you, then you may want to re consider your position.

Bigger more successful clubs will not hire someone with a attitude so best to leave it at the door at ANY club you apply at, because word of mouth gets around.

I tell my managers when hiring someone, be upfront and honest with our traffic and VIPs, let them know that we are a slow to medium traffic club, we are only 100% tips and there will be events you may only have five people there and come out with more then expected in tips and one event you could have over 15 people there and going out with less then you thought.

As far as I am concerned I would rather be honest with the person I am interviewing so they have a full understanding of how my club works. And sometimes still after being hired they feel they can take advantage lol and they always do that classic line...."Your club will fail with out me! because I am the best damn DJ you'll ever have" or...."F*** your club! its going to fail with all those rules anyways!".

Im sure most if not all club owners ore previous club owners can relate lol.

I just want to know....where are the good DJs and Hosts? Why have the new generation of SL feel they can be this way and feel they can get away with it?

Well I am getting of my soap box now and moving on....my vent is now over LMAO.....sorry if you disagree with me, or think im a failure or anything like that. But I just felt the need to get that of my chest.

Thank you for listening

[Senobia Xenga]

A lot of it has to do with club owners' inflated senses of self importance, ruling with an 'iron fist', it's MY way or the highway kinds of attitudes.

Then there's the whole, "If this club fails or doesn't get any traffic/donations, it's because of the hosts/DJs not doing their jobs" scenario that is often a contributing factor as well. 

More often than not, club owners want all the 'glory and prestige' that comes with owning a club, but none of the work that's involved in running one. They're very quick to misplace the blame on the staff when all the staff does is WORK there. Owners don't want to advertise, market, pay for events, make any improvements or offer anything tangible, but expect the staff to jump through their arses to ensure the place is a success - when 99% of the time, the staff isn't even being paid. 

Working for free for yourself is one thing - as in club owners investing time/money in getting/keeping a place up and running, but working for free for someone else - as in for tips as a DJ or host - is quite another.

If you want a reliable staff, pay them a reliable salary.  

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

I'm leaning in favor of the club owner on this one.

They're the one fotting the bill for the place.

 

Second poster says "If you want a reliable staff, pay them a reliable salary"... but consider where that money is coming from and what the venue really is.

A club in SL is not a business. It really isn't. Or at least it is certainly not a for-profit venue.

Its more of a roleplay and social hub.

The DJs are not working FOR the club - to do that they'd have to be improving the club's commercial success. They're roleplaying too - and in a sense working for themselves.

The club is providing a venue for them to work for themselves.

 

If anything DJs should be renting that time slot and space from the club.

Likewise the people who go AFK on the dancepoles and demand tips for it - they're renting that space to promote their avatar - and should be paying rent as such.

 

The host is the only one I could imagine making an argument that they promote the venue and not themselves. But I've rarely seen a host that had a chat script more involved that "hello avatar name" and "OMG this insert club name rocks!!!"

- The few times I have, its because either the venue owner was there hosting, or the DJ was also the host.

But most DJs also seem to have the same "Hello avatar name" chat script.

- A good way to test this is to say something back...

 

I do get what the original poster says about a venue needing all those people there working it to be a success. But then I see places like the Soul club in Bay City that always has a near full crowd yet appears to not even have an owner... (I really don't get that place either... Its a prim on the ground, a 'DJ booth' prop, and a dance ball. It doesn't even have walls... Yets its one of the most popular clubs in SL. And half the crowd doesn't even enter the 1024m lot its on, but stands on the mainland road next to it... Sometimes success makes no sense.

 

All of the demands the OP makes about genre and conduct and such - that all makes perfect sense. So much so that I'm baffled its ever even been an issue. Were I a DJ, I would not show up at a metal club and get annoyed when they refused to let me play my rastafari music. Nor would I expect to be breaking out Led Zepplin if I were to DJ at Irie Vibes... this is just... obvious.

 

[Nakts]

A good DJ is improving the club's commercial success, they're a draw for fans of their music choices, personality, or voice.

A good DJ is also working their butt off behind the scenes to fill requests, keep up an energy level, or just matching tempos and beats.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Nakts wrote:

A good DJ is improving the club's commercial success, they're a draw for fans of their music choices, personality, or voice.

A good DJ is also working their butt off behind the scenes to fill requests, keep up an energy level, or just matching tempos and beats.

---

And how is that improving the club's commercial success?

SHOW ME THE EXACT MONEY TRAIL, IN DETAIL, WITH NUMBERS.

Its improving the DJ's success. The tip jar filling up belongs to that DJ, and that crowd follows that DJ.

So again, how does that improve the club's commercial success? In numbers.

DJs ought to be renting that space.

 

If I held a wedding in a church, would the church pay me because I helped its 'commercial success', or would I pay it for the benefit of using that space?

If I held a convention downtown for followers of lolcats, would the Convention Hall pay me because I helped its commercial success by packing the halls with 7 billion people for 3 days, or would I pay the Convention Hall for the benefit of using that space?

 

Where is the commercial model for the club in all of this?

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

... that crowd follows that DJ.

So again, how does that improve the club's commercial success?

---

That crowd may or may not:

 - tip the hosts/hostesses and/or dancers, who may or may not have to give a cut to the owner as a condition of their employment (and let's face it, few are willing to work for free, so... no tips, no staff);

 - patronize adjoining shops, rented from the club owner, which might encourage the shop owners to keep their shops there open and/or encourage other merchants to open shops there when they look at traffic;

 - tip the "house" jar to help with costs related to tier, etc.;

 - decide to rent residential space from the club owner.

DJs pay for their own music collection (those that do, anyway...) and most pay for their own stream, as well. They also advertise in their own groups to bring more people in to that club. But they should pay the club owner? Get real.

If club owners didn't see the advantage of using DJs (and very few actually PAY their DJs; they work for tips alone) instead of just plugging in a canned stream, they wouldn't do it.

Which do you prefer? A canned stream? Or a DJ that interacts with his/her audience?

[VivaLaTease]

Well I am sorry if I hit a nerve with some people, but just so you are aware, there are Club Owners in SL who do take our clubs, DJs and Hosts seriously, either because we are ourselves DJs or Hosts or were at some stage in our SL Lives.

I am lucky that I am able to spend a little bit of my own RL money in SL to be able to pay for my parcel rent, I even provide a club stream for DJs who can not afford to pay for a stream but wish to DJ, I always tip my DJs and Hosts when ever I am in the club, as well as pay for Job ads, advertising, events and anything that helps to keep my club going, as well as that I pay for SL Live singers.....everything that goes into my club comes out of my own pocket and honestly I don't mind because it is something I enjoy and love to do, I do not make a cent from anyone. 

What donations I get from VIPs, go back into tipping the DJs and Hosts and anything club related such as the parcel rent, or AD Boards. 

I also support DJs or Hosts who have a side business such as clothing, building and such and encourage them to have events to sponsor there business's, give out prizes or GC's, anything to help to get there name out. 

My club also has a staff raffle once a week, and only for staff just for fun. 

Also, I have managers whom I pay weekly as well as shift support whom I also pay, and everyone does work as a team to help the DJs and Hosts with there events. 

I have been a SL DJ since 2008 (my main alt and this alt) so I do know how it feels to not get tipped and I do know how it feels to not have traffic, but at the same time I am the type of person who also knows how it feels to be a club owner in SL. I do not make a dime of my DJs or Hosts tips, they get there's 100%, and I always support them 110%.

Yet I have worked at some of the busiest clubs in SL, such as Big Daddy's, Wet Willies and Muddy's, so I also know how it feels to have awesome traffic and make awesome tips, and I look at my club as a stepping stone for DJs and Hosts to hone there craft so that they can work at big clubs in SL.

 

What I find very dis heartening lately though is when a club owner and Managers and so forth, even DJs and Hosts who do put in allot of effort, who do what they are very passionate about to have others ruin this venture for them by showing lack of respect and or effort. If we schedule a host or DJ together only to have the DJ leave 15 minutes into an event because they didn't get tipped by a VIP for requesting one song (and yes this did happen), didn't say a word to anyone just logged out of there tip jar, and up and left the host hanging with 6 VIPs there, that does not reflect well, when I myself interviewed this person and they did not show any type of attitude that way and were in fact very excited to get started. 

I have had DJs and Hosts who have been interviewed who have said, "well if you don't have at least 10 people in the club when I am hired, I will not work"....O_O....Well that makes me wanna hire you. That is what frustrated me, I remember a few years ago I was just excited to DJ and have fun with people and pretty much 99% of my DJ friends and family were the same, the fact that we get to stream and play music and talk with people, take there song requests, that was fun. 

I was frustrated because I just don't understand why there are people in SL who are this way.

Thank you though for your replies and thank you for listening to me vent lol I do appreciate the venting

 

[greek Wingtips]

I been djing in sl for godknows how long on top of that being a dj in rl and running a rl blues station in rl and its sister version in sl.

Clubs and Dj's and hosts have changed so much in the years,

I now belive because you can get hold of a stream that easy more people tend to think they become dj's overnight by just sticking music in SAM or whaterver they use, chatting and then saying there are dj's     ( sorry not so) there are good Dj's and Bad dj' as hosts and clubs owners,  it just working out who and whats best for you. I can only speak for myself as a DJ and I can tell you its no easy task, I tend to spend 2+ hours sometimes more setting up my playlist making sure its right, respecting

the times I be playing at a club, but its like anything  , A good dj will bring in your customers  but then again you have a two tier dj or a mixture, those that play for free and dont care about being paid, those like me which it becomes a mixture of both, as streams and buying music does cost money. and those which I do it for money only or to elevate thier status for what ever reason.

I have to mention club owers here too, some are very good and fair and give excelent tippage to thier staff, then there is the mean ones that not only dont tip but take a % of your tips, and those that really have an ego prob and really run thier clubs

like RL bussiness except they forget that RL we pay our staff, something most forget in SL,lol

and last thing to mention is    Rules   OMG times I refused to play at a club because of some of the rules that are pure fantasy.

If I see the owner has an ego prob or takes cuts for my tips or feel that thiers rules are over the top then no way will I play for them.

 

I think in the end being a dj' or club owner or host the best policy is for all parties to check and agree everthing before employing or play or hosting at clubs, if you parties are happy with each other then it sovles the problems in any doubt about anything  then just walk away or turn down  before any ball is kicked.

 

this is some of my views

[greek Wingtips]

100% correct in what you say

[greek Wingtips]

I tend to agree and agree, good dh's will bring success to a club if you had crap dj's that would offend the patrons and whatever this would have an effect on the clubs success, but at the same standard the club owners effort would need to come into play too so your right in one way but wrong in another

[Perrie Juran]

The whole discussion of why one club succeeds in SL while another one fails has been going on as long as I can remember.  While certain elements will always be necessary in order for a Club to succeed, even when all these elements are in place some still do fail.

I think Greek Wingtips comes very close when he says, "Your right in one way but wrong in another."  The relationship between the DJ and the Club is a symbiotic one.  The DJ needs a place to perform (and perform is really what they are doing) and the Club needs the DJ's performance.  Because after all that is why people are there.  To be entertained.   

The big issue is really this.  Does a Club Owner really have the right to expect a Real Life level of commitment from someone for a Second Life pittance of a salary?  You seem to be expecting people for the simple love of doing what they are doing to work for you.  Regardless of whether you are trying to run a Club for a profit or if it's just hobby you are willing to spend money on (a money pit), you have no right to criticise a DJ who won't work at a Venue that draws less than a certain number of people or those who require a minimum level of payment.  Just because it is your hobby does not mean it is only a hobby to them.

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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VivaLaTease wrote:

Being a club owner in SL in 2014 is one of the hardest jobs to be in SL.

---

Hi Viva!   *waves*

You didn't ask for advice, so I won't give any here, but if you are interested in hearing my thoughts on things that may help, let me know, and we can talk inworld. 

(Otherwise, sometimes a good rant...helps purge your mood!  *laughs*... So, have..at it babe ; ) 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

---

Nakts wrote:

A good DJ is improving the club's commercial success, they're a draw for fans of their music choices, personality, or voice.

A good DJ is also working their butt off behind the scenes to fill requests, keep up an energy level, or just matching tempos and beats.

---

And how is that improving the club's commercial success?

SHOW ME THE EXACT MONEY TRAIL, IN DETAIL, WITH NUMBERS.

...........

Where is the commercial model for the club in all of this?

---

Pussycat's on the right track.   It's about  the bottomline, (incoming funds)  unless a club owner just wants thier club to be a money-black-hole.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Griffin Ceawlin wrote:

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

... that crowd follows that DJ.

So again, how does that improve the club's commercial success?

---

That crowd may or may not:

 - tip the hosts/hostesses and/or dancers, who may or may not have to give a cut to the owner as a condition of their employment (and let's face it, few are willing to work for free, so... no tips, no staff);

 - patronize adjoining shops, rented from the club owner, which might encourage the shop owners to keep their shops there open and/or encourage other merchants to open shops there when they look at traffic;

 - tip the "house" jar to help with costs related to tier, etc.;

 - decide to rent residential space from the club owner.

DJs pay for their own music collection (those that do, anyway...) and most pay for their own stream, as well. They also advertise in their own groups to bring more people in to that club. But they should pay the club owner? Get real.

If club owners didn't see the advantage of using DJs (and very few actually PAY their DJs; they work for tips alone) instead of just plugging in a canned stream, they wouldn't do it.

Which do you prefer? A canned stream? Or a DJ that interacts with his/her audience?

---

Good points, but basically, it works this way:  

If you're paying people, to come to your club, you're doing it wrong.  

If you want to have a business, you need to have a product that people are willing to pay for.  If you're giving the product away, and also paying people for the privilege of giving it away.....you aren't a business, and you're devaluing your product.    That's the mistake many club owners make.  They mistake traffic for conversion.  It's not the same. 

For instance, if someone pays to boost their social media reach, and drive traffic to their website, they may have higher traffic.  But, is that traffic converting to sales?   That's the key!   Well, it's the same for a club.  Owners may do things to draw in traffic (avatars) but are the people who they're drawing in, ones that they want?  Are those people the ones who will pay?   If not, then the traffic is pointless, and may even work to their disadvantage, as the paying people will be turned off.

Being an experienced club owner, doesn't mean someone has been a club owner that made money.   (I don't know if Vivia made money, as in actual profit, with her previous clubs.)   But, to me....making a profit is the sign of success.  Otherwise, it's a hobby, which is fine, but will forever need to be subsidized.

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

I'm fine with not making a profit and calling it a success IF it is a hobby. BUT I'm NOT FINE with losing money and calling that a success, hobby or business.

For a hobby venue, at least keep the expense in the disposable money category: which means if I'm putting out more than the tier I'd otherwise still have - something is wrong.

 

I think people have something very flipped here - because they're thinking of the relationship as it exists in RL, and not how it works out in SL.

In SL the business is not really the club, as many seem to think. The business is the DJ. The club is the DJ's employee.

 

In real life the club is the employer and makes money from all the drinks sold, cover-charge, T-shirts, and bar-snacks.

- None of that works in SL.

 

In SL the DJ has a business. He or She entertains people with a musical selection and some good conversation. To make that business easier to operate, he or she hires a location that provides a regular place for the DJ's customers to come to and be entertained.

But the location is working for the DJ - the location has no reasonable source of income other than what the DJ is willing to give over. Especially with marketplace... putting up a mall is often just more money in the pit. The increased land tier to host that mall is unlikely to be covered by the mall renters unless the location charges them somewhat unfairly high rents.

- Lacking said mall, most of what contains the average club could fit on a 512m or 1024m plot somewhere (see the Soul Club on the very west end of PG Bay CIty, its on a 1024 lot I think).

 

[VivaLaTease]

Thank you for all your opinions and thoughts, and I do agree with all of you.

I don't expect my club to be a success such as other clubs who have been going for years, but I would like for my club to be a cool hang out for others to enjoy Would I love for my club to be along side other successful clubs in SL, omg it would be a absolute honor! But at the same time I would like to be humble and grateful to have the club that I have, to have met some fantastic people, DJs, Hosts and live singers, other business owners. 

 

My main point that was and sometimes still frustrates me, not just as a club owner, but as a fellow DJ, which to be honest I don't consider myself a DJ, I consider myself a on air broadcaster, I create a show, a playlist of music to entertain people, back to the point, as a fellow SL DJ I found it dis heartening to hear of other SL DJs (not all SL DJs, just some) who continue to have these demands, to have such "fantasies" about what is to be expected, like I pointed out in my previous reply, which is just one of some stories I have, where a DJ left 15 minutes into a gig because ONE person requested ONE song, and they didn't tip them for that song, so the DJ up and left and then ultimately quit.

That is just one of some stories I have, I wouldn't DREAM of doing that to any club regardless of its success or if it was a brand new club. I had a host who was being interviewed who stated that because we can't garuntee over 10 people in the club, that she didn't want to be hired because it is pointless. 

It's this attitude as a genuine club owner that I found frustrating, and not just as a club owner, but as a fellow SL DJ. 

Yes this is a hobby for me, I never expected to make anything from this, I guess some people may look at me as a sucker for it, but it is something I enjoy, to help bring great music and great company in to peoples lives. Yes, it maybe harsh to say, but yes clubs are a money pit, but clubs in SL are also much more then that, friendships, romances and such are made, and songs you may never have heard of are being played on air.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion and how the hone there DJ and hosting skills in SL, and they have a right to DJ and Host where ever they please and form there opinion and such on it, whether they are comfortable with the place or not, whether they are comfortable with the rules that the club provides, (yes I agree there are some clubs in SL that have these fantasy rules and some nasty owners), which I always and my managers to, always provide all this before someone is hired, and I always tell the new DJ or Host that if after a week or two or even after there first gig if they are not comfortable with the club and DJing or hosting there, that its cool, no hard feelings, just let us know. 

But its just those few hosts and DJs who apply, knowing what you advertise, knowing the music style of the club, knowing exactly what your club has to offer, who then turn and say "because you don't pay 500L per event I will not DJ" O_O and my Job ad clearly states, 100% tips only. It's not just that but many other things to, and for someone who is genuine about bringing a fun entertaining club to people of SL, I can see why many do just fold up and leave.

 

Either way though, I persist and try, because that is all I can do, I love what I do in SL, I love sharing music and I love creating a atmosphere for people to enjoy, and I am grateful for that.

 

Thank you for all your opinions

[MikeChek]

Honestly the best way to put an end to it... All the major club owners should just form a union.. and agree to what they will pay.. or hire.. and who not to hire.. ending the mess that goes on. Will the major clubs do it? probably not... But a strong union of clubs  with the same concerns would definitely limit things a bit more. It will hit those Dj's where it hurts and maybe we will see DJ's and Staff doing it for the love instead of sucking club money dry.  Just my two cents, like or not.. could care less

[SadieSade]

Been reading these posts and i would just like to run a quote from one of the posts ... " like RL bussiness except they forget that RL we pay our staff, something most forget in SL,lol "

Ok fair enough so as a club owner on the basis of the quote given i will charge vip's and anyone else for that matter an entrance fee just for that DJ's sets then the DJ will get 25% of any take the club makes as club overheads also need to be balanced out.....is all that RL enough for you ? How many people do you think would turn up for that DJ;s set ? I think it would be safe to say 0 for an eternity.

So lets cut the excuses no one is important enough to expect a payment we are all volunteers here in SL nobody forces us to do what we do that includes club owners we are all the same here and asking payment for a service which by all accounts should be freely given for the fun and enjoyment of purly being able to do it, is showing me that they do not have those qualitys mentioned and also would not be a very good DJ  to have in the first place

I personally would NOT take on anyone who expects payment those type of DJ's prey on clubs that are new and need to establish traffic and of course certain club owners give in and pay them the sweetner, they pay a dozen DJ's who do not give a damn about the club and the club fails due to a foolish owner blowing lindens on staff who do not posses the right attitude needed...fact.

 

 

[SadieSade]

Having read the post i replied to instead of speed reading through and posting i should point out that original my reply was not meant to reflect badly on the poster but yes my point is still valid and the response i gave about paying an entrance fee is the standard one i give to staff who expect to be paid.

Yes i do realise time spent on putting music together ect can be time consuming and at times an expenditure but club owners also have expenditures its not a case of my **bleep** is worse than your **bleep** and like was stated nobody is forcing anyone to do anything against their will the choice was theirs alone.

What should be questioned is the motive behind the things we do , i could describe some DJ 's as nothing more than glorified beggers who use the fact that they spin a few tunes badly as a tool to farm lindens from gullible desperate clubs and i could describe some club owners as powertripping egomaniacs with no sense of style or empathy for anything other than themselve.

Well thats SL  for you

 

[Perrie Juran]

Just because we are all here by our 'free will,' that does not necesarily make us all 'volunteers.'

Certainly the days when Clubs acted as an anchor to Malls in order to get people there are pretty much over but they do still exist.  And while not many owners of these locations make any money doing it, they still exist also.

Maybe you run your club as a hobby, something you don't care if you aren't making money on it.  That is your privilege.  It is neither right or wrong:  It is indivijual choice.  But a good DJ who know's their stuff can be worth their weight in gold to a club.  Because they can both bring in and keep people who are interested in what they have to offer. 

So while true, charging an entrance fee might deter some people from coming, if you build a club that people love to come to, people will still willingly tip the club to help keep it going.  And one of the ingredients in a club is it's DJ's.  And while I might agree that some DJ's aren't worth the pixels thay are occupying on people's screen space, that does not mean that all DJ's are worthless.

[SadieSade]

First of all I did not state that all DJ's are worthless and a good DJ  as you so put it would not need to be charging a fee. If they are as good as they claim, i would imagine they would be able to make a killing off the tips alone not to mention ALL the clubs headhunting for them but the reality is nobody is that good.

So as mentiomed its the motive behind the deed some are motivated by the love of music and others by the need to make Lindens at the expense of anothers hard work in actually setting up a decent venue for people to play and have fun...yes the club owner

No one in the clubbing scene has balls golden enough to deserve a fee they play for tips like everyone else i have seen the same DJ's playing for free in some of the more established clubs but then demanding a fee from someone not as established why ? Because they know they can, and that does not make them a good DJ it makes them a person who is taking advantage.

And i have yet to see a club in SL  that has broken even nevermind actually making a profit, so on that basis we ARE volunteers and SL would be such a dull empty place without us

[Pussycat Catnap]

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SadieSade wrote:

Been reading these posts and i would just like to run a quote from one of the posts ...

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[Christin73]

itt to I wouowner brokeI have worked at a few clubs over the 3 years i have been on. I have even owned my own small club at one point. As a club owner you quickly find out who your true friends are. Most will tell you "oh sure i will come hang out at your club." then when it comes time, they find excuses. I have also been a Host and dancer. Some clubs have reasonable rules that are needed. Some not so reasonable. But one thing I know about clubs and people that go to clubs is the club goers seem to be linden chasers. They go wherever the contests are to make lindens. Those are the people that are bad at tipping. The more money a club owner spends the more people they will get to visit the club. However, that only gets the  owner broke and stressed trying to make money on a losing game. If I had to give people advise I would tell them not to open a club n sl. It's not worth it.

[Lewis Luminos]

I own and run a small club; a very small one.   I employ two DJs and we have no more than one event a week.  I do not employ any hosts; I do that role myself.  We speciallise in 1940s vintage swing and Jazz music.  I pay the DJs for their time and they also rez out a tipjar and they keep 100% of their tips. I have a venue tipjar as well.

No, I don't make a profit, usually.  Venue tips generally cover the DJs fees with sometimes a little over, but they don't cover the rent. I pay that out of my own pocket, but its only a 2048m parcel so it's not a huge amount.

And you know what, I consider my club to be an absolute success.  People come, and they come back time after time, and they love the place.  People hang out there even when there's no event on.  We will be celebrating the club's 2nd anniversary in a couple of months.

Here's what has, in my opinion, made Club Noir a success:

1) We cater to a very niche market (vintage swing/jazz fans) and we started up shortly after the demise of a 1940s roleplaying venue that I was already active in, so there were already a group of people looking for a place to go.

2)There are a handful of similar/competing clubs but none to my knowledge operating in my timezone. My DJs work at those other clubs too and that actually helps spread awareness and bring in more people, so it's beneficial to be on good terms with your competitors.

3) Friendly atmosphere, real conversation, no gestures (I actually disallow my DJs from using gestures). Admittedly you can't force people to chat but if the host and DJ are actively engaging with the guests it will happen. 

4) Not caring about the profit margn.  Because I don't need worry about whether I will be tipped enough to pay the rent, I can relax and enjoy the events. I don't have to keep hassling people to tip, and because I am paying my DJs a fee, they don't have to either.  As a guest I find soliciting for tips to be intrusive; guests will tip if (a) they are enjoying the event/music and (b) they have L$ to spare.  Making sure (a) is true is my job but I can't do anything about (b) and constantly nagging people to tip appears rude and desperate and is more likely to have the opposite effect.

5) No contests, nothing that gives out prizes or L$.  Contests do not usually attract the type of guest who is interested in the genre, the music or the conversation. 

 

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Christin73 wrote:

 The more money a club owner spends the more people they will get to visit the club. However, that only gets the  owner broke and stressed trying to make money on a losing game. If I had to give people advise I would tell them not to open a club n sl. It's not worth it.

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I disagree with this on two points. You don't have to spend a lot of money to get people to visit. You just have to find a specific audience to cater for, and do so in a friendly and relaxed atmosphere.  If I received no tips at all, ever, my club would cost me around L$1000 a week in staff fees and rent. That's about the cost of a fancy Latte.

If someone asked me for advice on running a club I'd say, sure, if it's something you LOVE doing, if you'd do it anyway even if you pay for everything out of pocket, if it brings you happiness or fun or joy, then yes, it absolutely is worth every penny.

 

[Zairdra]

I frequent certain clubs more often than others and my favorite club "Big Daddy's" despite being a club that plays a large verity of music for several genres tends to follow the same format as allot of other clubs.. Or rather its DJ's tend to only want to play non stop 80's rock. Now I was born in April of 1990, needless to say my parents typically like to listen to 80s music and while I DO like 80s rock, it feels like there is an over saturation of 80s music in clubs. I grew up listening to allot of hiphop and even some 90s and 2000s rock, however it is RARE to hear a 90s or 2000s song play unless I personally request it. The reason "Big Daddy's" is my favorite is because its the ONLY club in SL that the DJ's don't get down right mad at me for requesting anything but 80's rock. I have been rather frustrated with some of the attitudes of these DJ's in other clubs and its made me just turn off the stream and play my own music or music from YouTube so I can at least listen to a verity of music but still enjoy the club's social environment.