The Numbers Aren't Adding Up / Problem Selling

[Perrie Juran]

 

I own two Parcels, 4096 each which are deeded to group.  I am the group owner and the only one with liabilities in the group.  I have a few other friends in the group who are allowed to use my land.

I am selling one of the parcels and want to ensure the $L's from the sale go to me. When I tried to sell the parcel back to myself I got a warning when I tried to buy it that I would jump up into the next tier bracket.

How can my contribution be greater than my holdings and where is this total contribution number coming from?  And if I'm not adding any land to my holdings, why am I being jumped into the next tier bracket?

Is it necesary for me to sell the Land back to myself to ensure I get the $L's.

And no, I own no other land anywhere, nor do I have a Linden Home.

Thanks in advance for un-confusing me.

 

[Perrie Juran]

 

I own two Parcels, 4096 each which are deeded to group.  I am the group owner and the only one with liabilities in the group.  I have a few other friends in the group who are allowed to use my land.

I am selling one of the parcels and want to ensure the $L's from the sale go to me. When I tried to sell the parcel back to myself I got a warning when I tried to buy it that I would jump up into the next tier bracket.

How can my contribution be greater than my holdings and where is this total contribution number coming from?  And if I'm not adding any land to my holdings, why am I being jumped into the next tier bracket?

Is it necesary for me to sell the Land back to myself to ensure I get the $L's.

And no, I own no other land anywhere, nor do I have a Linden Home.

Thanks in advance for un-confusing me.

 

[Chic Aeon]

Hey there!

I have never sold group land back to myself BUT I can tell you that calling up Billing and asking won't do you much good as they told a close friend of mine completely wrong land info and cost him an extra month of tier.

It "seems" like the land sales process is going to FIRST say that you bought it and THEN take it away from the group. It can't do it instantaneously (well I imagine they could build something in but sounds like they haven't).

If it were "me" ---  I would kick all friends but your alt (or make an alt if you don't have one in the group - you need two people; sure you know that) and add them. This leaves just you and your alt. THEN you can sell your land as a group thing and not worry. I am guessing that it will all go smoothly if you are the only owner.  This leaves your friends in limbo for a little while but is probably the safest thing.

Be aware that unless land is special in some way (protected water view etc.) it is not selling well. While it looks like there is only so much for sale out there. MUCH is in "maintenance" and just parked empty.  There is a ton of LL land for sale at a linden a square meter.   I have had several friends abandon good land simply because they couldn't sell it. Sad but true.

 

 

GOOD LUCK!!!!!  Hope it workes out.

 

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

It looks like someone in your group is contributing 870m of land...

[Perrie Juran]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

It looks like someone in your group is contributing 870m of land...

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if someone else is contributing shouldn't the detail appear in the group land window?

all that is listed are my two parcels.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

If you are the owner of the group, and check (and double check) that no other role has Pay Group Liabilities, then if the land is sold by the group you get all the money as a dividend.  You don't get it instantaneously, but on the day dividends are paid , which according to video on this link example, can be found by looking at group accounting the planning tab.  The vid is a bit old and I am not in world to check this out, but I assume it is still true

From the Knowledge Base:

 

Group dividends and liabilities

A group may receive income, for example if it sells an object deeded to the group or rents out group-owned land.  Such income is referred to as a group dividend.  Group dividends are distributed equally among all group members who have the Pay group liabilities and receive group dividends ability associated with their role. Likewise, all group liabilities are also spread evenly among group members with this ability.

If no one else in the group has this ability, then group liabilities and dividends are paid to the group's owner.  If there are no enabled accounts in the group that have the Pay group liabilities and receive group dividends ability, then liabilities and dividends are spread evenly between group members.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

It looks like someone in your group is contributing 870m of land...

---

if someone else is contributing shouldn't the detail appear in the group land window?

all that is listed are my two parcels.

 

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Since you're donating to a group your 8704 square meters has the landholding power of 8704 * 1.1, which would be 9574 square meters. If you buy land for the GROUP, you can actually get about 1300 square meters more rhan the group has now

Since you've donated all your landholding rights you can't actually buy anything for yourself without moving up a tier level. You need to manually set the amount of tier you donate; it doesn't update automatically. You can reduce your contribution somewhat if you like but you still won't have enough to buy the entire 4096. As has been noted, you can get all the land sale income if you go into the group role descriptions and remove the ability to "Pay group liabilities and recieve group dividends" from all roles other than the owner.

If there's a reason you still want the land in your own name you could:

1) Reduce your donation as much as possible to still cover the group needs.

2) Subdivide off a chunk of the group land that would be smaller than the tier allowance you've un-donated.

3) Sell the subdivided piece to yourself.

4) Reduce your donation more, as the group now has less land.

5) Lather, rinse, repeat until you have all the land you want back.

You MAY be able to reduce your donation by the full amount for the piece you want to transfer to yourself, leaving the group slightly in land debt temporarily, and then immediately sell the land you want to yourself - the system will allow you to reduce your donation to less than the group requires. However, I'm not sure what the repercussions of this are.

[Perrie Juran]

Thanks to all for your replies.

This has been my first venture into land ownership and the reasons for the second parcel 'ceased.' 

If it does not sell before my billing date I will just abandon it to reduce my tier. 

I thought I knew what I was doing before I did it.

Looks like I should have read more first. 

Now I am curious the difference between 'set to group' and 'deed to group' and the pros and cons.

More reading to do.

My poor Martian eyes.

[Phil Deakins]

Group land can be quite confusing. It's too early in my day for my brain to wrap itself around your problem but, if you haven't already dealt with it, I can say that selling group land to yourself only serves to complicate it further when you are at or near the limit for your tier level. That's because, when the land is group-owned, you can have an extra 10%, but not when it's privately owned, which it will be if you sell it to yourself. So if you are at or near the tier level limit, taking the 10% into account, changing some of the land to privately owned (by you) can push you up a tier level.

Thankfully, there is absolutely no need to sell the land to yourself. In the Group's box, just make sure that the Owner ROLE is the only role that has the "Pay group liabilities and receive group dividends" option checked in Allowed Abilities. That way only the owner (you) will receive money that comes to the group via a land sale. You should know that, when group land is sold, you won't receive the money at the time of the sale. You'll get it the next day.

So, if that option is NOT set for other members (roles) in the group, and then you sell the land without first selling it to yourself, there won't be a problem.

 

Just out of interest, the simple way to work out how much group-owned land you can have at any particular tier level is....

(tier level amount + the tier-free 512) + 10%

For instance, for the 4k tier level, it would be....

4096 + 512 = 4608

+10% = 5068

It's actually 5056 because of the 16 sqm minimum size that land can by divided into.

So to be at the 4k tier level, you can have 5056 sqm as long as it's all group owned.

But, if you have a group-owned 4096 and decide to go up to 5056 by buying the extra land for yourself and then deeding it to the group, you will go into the next tier level up briefly, and you will have to pay the extra tier for that month. To avoid that, the extra land must be bought for the group.

 

I don't know if any of that helps with your problem, or even if you still have the problem, but it might be interesting anyway

 

ETA: Just out of interest.... for a while, tier donations to a group aren't critical. A group can own more land than it has tier donations for so, if there's a problem there, don't worry about it. There is plenty of time to sort it out. On the other hand, land ownership IS critical. If you own 1 sqm more land than your tier level, even for just a fraction of a second, you will be charged that higher tier for that month.

[Perrie Juran]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Group land can be quite confusing. It's too early in my day for my brain to wrap itself around your problem but, if you haven't already dealt with it, I can say that selling group land to yourself only serves to complicate it further when you are at or near the limit for your tier level. That's because, when the land is group-owned, you can have an extra 10%, but not when it's privately owned, which it will be if you sell it to yourself. So if you are at or near the tier level limit, taking the 10% into account, changing some of the land to privately owned (by you) can push you up a tier level.

Thankfully, there is absolutely no need to sell the land to yourself. In the Group's box, just make sure that the Owner ROLE is the only role that has the "Pay group liabilities and receive group dividends" option checked in Allowed Abilities. That way only the owner (you) will receive money that comes to the group via a land sale. You should know that, when group land is sold, you won't receive the money at the time of the sale. You'll get it the next day.

So, if that option is NOT set for other members (roles) in the group, and then you sell the land

without first selling it to yourself

, there won't be a problem.

 

Just out of interest, the simple way to work out how much group-owned land you can have at any particular tier level is....

(tier level amount + the tier-free 512) + 10%

For instance, for the 4k tier level, it would be....

4096 + 512 = 4608

+10% = 5068

It's actually 5056 because of the 16 sqm minimum size that land can by divided into.

So to be at the 4k tier level, you can have 5056 sqm as long as it's all group owned.

But, if you have a group-owned 4096 and decide to go up to 5056 by buying the extra land for yourself and then deeding it to the group, you will go into the next tier level up briefly, and you will have to pay the extra tier for that month. To avoid that, the extra land must be bought for the group.

 

I don't know if any of that helps with your problem, or even if you still have the problem, but it might be interesting anyway

 

ETA: Just out of interest.... for a while, tier donations to a group aren't critical. A group can own more land than it has tier donations for so, if there's a problem there, don't worry about it. There is plenty of time to sort it out. On the other hand, land ownership IS critical. If you own 1 sqm more land than your tier level, even for just a fraction of a second, you will be charged that higher tier for that month.

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Thank you.  Maybe there is a reason, some loop hole people could exploit to get out of paying tier, but it seems odd to me that the system doesn't recognize that there is no actual change in the amount of land held. 

I do have everything worked out now as far as selling the land goes. 

I am however still puzzled by one thing.  How does one buy land for the group directly?  People keep referring to buying land for the group and I don't see how this can be done.

[Phil Deakins]

When you buy a parcel of land, the box has an option to buy it for the group. I've never clicked that button so I don't know if you can select the group after you click it or if you need to have the group already activated - like you need for setting and deeding to a group. If I were to do it, I'd definitely have the right group already activated - just in case.