Fishy ?

[PaperB]

Hi everyone, so i had this issue with a person that claimed to have bought a semi exclusive mesh of mine. The case was this person said she had bought the mesh, opened at beta grid and the mesh turned no transfer for the regular grid (This was already odd enough since i didnt knew you could open anything new at beta grid) So my first reaction was i told her i gave .dae files with my semi exclusives, so this way she would not have any issues with uploading them at regular grid with her name and full perm.

To this she told me she didnt had payment info. (ok..so i might be wrong but i though you needed so to have an account at beta grid).

This whole conversation toked place with me logged at my phone, so i coudnt really check anything and i told her ok ill try to fix this for you as soon as i log at pc.

When i did log at pc i found out that she didnt bought any copy, no order history whatsoever  was there, that she had bought anything from me ever, nor any  payment record on my account transaccion history either.

And i got to read a nc she sent me with her conversation with a linden, (named xxx linden, she erased the first name);

conversation went that, she told him (prior to ever contact or talk at me), that I  didnt wanted to help her, and coudnt search the order history.

To this the "xxx LInden" told  her that if i didnt fix the issue she could denounce me at them. And to please remove his/her name since they werent supposed to help inworld.

At the end of all this, i told her ok i will do this ill resend a copy to every single costumer that purchase the item, and if you did made the buy, then you will recieve one, i did so, she acted like she didnt read it, and started to talk about a bug to sl and told me she was calling it a day, that too bad she had spended the 5k but she was tired of sl bugs.

Im just posting this one, because it was all too strange to me, im really certain of what i sold and have proof of it.

Im afraid that if the case was with a non limited item, it could have go with a marketplace issue and just ended with her having a copy of it.

So if anyone had a similar experience or just want to share opinion please do it  :matte-motes-smile:

[LepreKhaun]

Since nothing they said is adding up and they're using a veiled threat with that supposed conversation with an unnamed linden, I'd AR them for attempted fraud.

[ImaTest1488314069]

Your entire encounter with this person is indeed fishy. I'd chalk it up to that, and be done with it. You can AR her for showing you a conversation she had with another person, but I highly doubt the AR would go anywhere.

However I do want to address a couple of your points, outside of this particular encounter, in case you ever come across them again. They also might help other merchants who may encounter one, or more, of these things. So please don't take them all as directed to only you.

1-You can open new things on the beta grid. I know it does have issues and we are told it's an older snapshot of the assets so new stuff shouldn't show. That's not the case though. I have opened new things on beta grid.

2-You should never, ever tell a customer "I send .dae files, so you'll have no problem uploading it yourself". While I understand why you said it, and I think it's fantastic you do send them, I think it's a crappy thing to do as a merchant to make the customer pay more-even a small amount-to have to use your product. The customer will have to pay to upload your .dae, and I don't think that's a good practice generally speaking, even mere percentage of pennies. There can be reasons why a customer would need to upload the .dae themselves, so I am glad you offer the option. I just don't think you should ever suggest a customer should, especially if there is a problem. It may just sour their opinion of you. It may not too, but I don't recommend that approach. Options are fantastic, requirements, not always.

3-You don't need payment info on file to use the beta grid.

4-Depending on when the customer had made the purchase it is likely a merchant may not have a record. Now, if you keep very good records, of course you'll have them. If you don't, or the purchase was 31+ days ago, it won't show in your transaction history on the SL site. But I am assuming you keep all records and download them monthly(at least), so this may not apply to you at all. The MP also shows records and, for the most part, shows them all just fine. If the item is purchase on the MP that is. Many people don't download and keep transaction history, so this is just another option for checking purchases if there is a problem with a product.

5-Never trust someone who shows you an inworld conversation with a linden regarding an issue, especially a resident to resident issue. They won't discuss them inworld, they don't typically come inworld much and it's never to talk about things like this. They aren't allowed. Anything they do say, inworld or not, can be seen by the lab. So it would be pointless for them to say "don't tell anyone we talked" as well. The lab can see any and all conversations, not only by linden employees, but especially by them. They all know this. Linden employees aren't allowed to address 99% of issues people encounter inworld. Since most are barely hanging onto their jobs as it is, I doubt many would be willing to risk it anyway.

Like I said, whoever you were dealing with, was likely a scam from word go. So these things don't apply to her, and this case specifically. I'd chalk that one up to a crazy, mute if you feel the need and just go on about your day. An AR is possible, but will most likely be useless. The lab does take fraud seriously, but if the conversation she showed you doesn't have the actual linden name, they won't care. You shouldn't care either. She's clearly a fruitcake, and is probably already off to her next scam.

[PaperB]

Hi ty all for answering, I didnt took it personally at all. In fact one of the reasons i posted this was to share this with other merchants in case they could encounter the same issue. I wasnt sure about the beta grid with new items but she told.me.she used it to test mesh prior upload it at main grid. Im pretty sure you cant upload mesh without payment info.

But again i can be wrong feel free to correct me. The reason i told her about the .dae was because she said she coudnt fix the problem at all. Beeing that she didnt had any record od purchase i didnt either a way to get them was to reupload the meshes. I know this makes the costumer pay an extra for reuploading but in most cases semi exclusive items are though for them to reupload. Why? Because they pay extra for the exclusivness and whant their names on the mesh. My experience is that over 90% of the costumers of semi exclusive items do reupload the mesh. Appart from this i resend the item to all the people that bought it. 10.copies, 10 resends. To this she just said to me in im tht she gave up too bad she coudnt get it.

[PaperB]

So yes im pretty sure ot was some sort of a scam, and i hope this post helps if anyone ever encounter a situation like this, but most than all may this be a warning sign the we should All merchants keep our transaccion history because they are there for a reason. Sorry for my english and typos (im via phone ugh)

[Chic Aeon]

I think you did all you could and yes, most likely a scam.

You DO need payment info on file to upload mesh on Aditi. You do not need it to go to and use Aditi for other things. Sounds like she contradicted herself a few times there. Not unusual in these cases.

And while I don't buy premade mesh for resale I have friends that do and yes, they always LIKE having the dae files, sometimes so their name is on it, sometimes for "fiddling" .

So sounds like you are doing things the best that you can.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Sounds like fraud to me.  First what happens on the beta grid has no effect on the main grid.  She could open it on beta, if she had it, but when she returned to the regular grid she'd have to open it again as nothing you do to your inventory on beta sticks.

Let her AR you.  LL will do nothing since it is a resident to resident dispute.  No linden told her any different unless it was just to get rid of her, but I highly doubt that too.  When was the last time you saw a Linden in world, and if you did, did they talk to you? 

There is a slim chance she got it on MP and you were not paid.  If this is the case than you need her transaction number and to a JIRA with all the details, BUT until LL verifies this is the case I would not give her anything. If she is a legit person she should understand and cooperate. 

Please don't cave to her or people like her until all facts have been verified.  It only encourages thieves.

[Nacy Nightfire]

A number of years ago I bought a rather pricey in-world animation product.  Due to some glitch of unstablility in SL it disappeared in a sandbox and I panicked.  I contacted the seller very upset (probably irrationally so) and let her know it was lost.  She didn't see me on her list of purchasers, and said so,  but she very good-naturedly gave me another copy.  

A year went by before I discovered while cleaning out my inventory that in actuality I bought the product via my Alt which explains why she didn't have me listed on her records.

So its easy to get all worked up and accuse someone of fraud and a scam.  But really if it happens with a customer that's never been a problem before what's the big deal with giving them the benefit of the doubt.  If  he or she contacts you again with similar complaints, THEN it's worthy of concern.   Why not ask the customer if he or she purchased the product under a different name?

[Tari Landar]

---

Nacy Nightfire wrote:.

So its easy to get all worked up and accuse someone of fraud and a scam.  But really if it happens with a customer that's never been a problem before what's the big deal with giving them the benefit of the doubt.  If  he or she contacts you again with similar complaints, THEN it's worthy of concern.   Why not ask the customer if he or she purchased the product under a different name?

---

Because we're talking about an exclusive item, not something just anyone can buy. Although I may have done exactly that and handed it over anyway, I can see why others won't. I respect a merchant's right to refuse service, or redelivery for whatever reason they deem valid. It's not my place, even if I don't agree with them, to say otherwise, imo. There are really a lot of people out there who try to pull scams like this on people. The reaosn they continue, is because it works here and there. Bit of a pickle, I guess.

I agree with everything you did OP. She's definitely fishy and it's definitely a scam, I have no doubt about that. I think you went about it very appropriately.

[PaperB]

I didnt refuse to help her Nancy. I did ask her if she bough it under an alt not one but several times. She said nothing. I sold 10 copies total of that product. After talking at her I resent the item to all 10 buyers. To this she told me "oh forget it im tired of sl bugs"... This whole thing wasnt about me not willing to help my costumer re really. After posting this I contacted the costumers that bought it and that didnt asked for the .dae files. None of them was her. So at this point I have zero doubts this was a scam. No only that but she waited till more than a month went by so with some luck i woudnt have record of the transaccion. I save them every month so i did. This same thing i think it can happend to other merchants that perhamps dont sell semi exclusive items and sell a lot of copies, and just send the item to not be looked as not good with theor costumers.

[Tari Landar]

---

Nacy Nightfire wrote:

A number of years ago I bought a rather pricey in-world animation product.  Due to some glitch of unstablility in SL it disappeared in a sandbox and I panicked.  I contacted the seller very upset (probably irrationally so) and let her know it was lost.  She didn't see me on her list of purchasers, and said so,  but she very good-naturedly gave me another copy.  

A year went by before I discovered while cleaning out my inventory that in actuality I bought the product via my Alt which explains why she didn't have me listed on her records.

---

When you realized your mistake, did you ever compensate(or even apologize to) this seller for your misguided ranting and raving, and subsequent second delivery of a product not purchased by both accounts? Horrible run-on sentence, I know. Many merchants, I would guess probably most, don't want people using their products on more than one account. This is very common for people who sell things to be used in other products, and has been for years. A great deal of them even state this in their ToU or EULA. Personally, I always assume it's standard policy unless specifically stated it's not. Because I value the work of creators.

I had someone do that to me once. She bought something on a different account and wasn't paying attention. Thankfully, she didn't go off on me and was actually quite polite about it. I did re-send the product, though neither of us had a transaction in our records. She later realized why, and paid for the second copy, which I refunded to her, but thanked her for her honesty. I wouldn't have felt angry had she not, but it was quite refreshing to see nonetheless. Because it's exactly what I would do, and I do believe it's the right thing to do.

I don't believe the OP got worked up at all. The entire thing IS a scam, and it's a very common one. It's always good to offer warning signs and tips to others when you do encounter someone like that, though. Sometimes it's pretty easy to spot a fraud or scam. This is one of those times.

[Nacy Nightfire]

Wow...did I ever say I expressed myself in "misguided ranting and raving?"   Although anxious and perhaps overy concerned in the scheme of things (SL being rather unimportant in balance with my real life).   I was polite and grateful to the person who sold the item  and she, in kind, was reassuring, polite and gracious.  We treated each other politely and decently. And I expressed my gratitude abundently.  

I said I was upset and irrational. Why?  Because I loved the product and I told the creator so.  I was not abusive, yet you seem to draw from your pocket of experience and take that leap.  It's sad really.  And one year later I was not going to track her down with an explanation about an event she clearly didn't get worked up about it was already resolved kindly and professionally.  To bring it up again would have been a bit insane.

I wonder why you leaped to the idea that the exchange was anything less then respectful.  In fact I think that's probably the point of my post.  Where does one go with this kind of situation, does one get all worked up and overly dramatic, or do you act positively and professionally and not assume you know every single event is a scam.  You can create your a reality filled with negative and unpleasant interactions if you assume you know all and can see every scam a mile away.

I like most people have been scammed in SL and RL..we all have.  How we deal with it and move forward with each situation in life is telling.

edited due to having written in haste.  many errors of spelling, etc. corrected.  A thousand pardons to every English teacher I ever inflicted myself on as a student.

[Nacy Nightfire]

I didn't intend to put you in a position of defending or explaining yourself. You did nothing wrong here.  I just shared my experience because it's one of a few interaction I have had in SL as a consumer  might have been misconstrued as "scamming" when in fact that ws not the case in the least.

Undoubtedly there are dishonest, hostile, angry and crazy people who are drawn to SL and will give anyone a run for their money.  But I've run into creators who seem to be consumed with being scammed to the point where I feel everyone gets painted with a broad brush of suspicion.  Maybe the thrill of the game is just that?  Hunting down evil-doer's? I'm not sure.

I just threw out the suggestion that you check that perhaps an alt was involved, based on my own experience.  Plain and simple.

[Tari Landar]

---

Nacy Nightfire wrote:

Wow...did I ever say I expressing myself in "misguided ranting and raving?"   Although anxious and perhaps overy concerned in the scheme of things (SL being rather unimportant in balance with my real life).   I was polite and grateful to the person who sold the item  and she in kind was reassuring, polite and gracious.  We treated each other politely and decently. And I expressed my gratitude abundently.  

I said I was upset and irrational. Why?  Because I loved the product and I told the creator so.  I was not abusive, yet you seem to draw from your pocket of experience and take that leap.  It's sad really.  And one year later I was not going to track her down with an explanation about an event she clearly didn't get worked up about it was already resolved kindly and professionally.  To bring it up again would have been a bit insane.

I wonder why you leaped to the idea that the exchange was anything less the repectful.  In fact I think that's probably the point of my post.  Where does one go with this kind of situation, does one get all worked up and overly dramatic, or do you act positively and professionally and not assume you know every single event is a scam.  You can create your a reality filled with negative and unpleasant interactions if you assume you know all and can see every scam a mile away.

I like most people have been scammed in SL and RL..we all have.  How we deal with it and move forward with each situation in life is telling.  

---

Your use of the word irrational does not suggest respectful in any way. I would not associate that with polite, either. Thanks for clarifying that you were indeed actually not irrational. 

The fact that a year later you didn't appreciate the kindness of a perfect stranger enough to let her know doesn't say a word about me. Had it been me, I would have paid her for the copy, whether or not she remembered it a year later. I don't believe that to be insane, I believe that to be respectful and the right thing to do. That is my opinion. We clearly do not share an opinion on that matter. Such is life.

You do make an awful lot of assumptions however. I have the least negative outlook on things of anyone I know. No one can possibly know everything that is, or even isn't, a scam. I'd never suggest otherwise, nor did I. There are however some things that are obvious scams, like this. Giving in to them, even if it would cost you nothing, will only push the problem off on to someone else. If you can help the problem, you ought to do it, I believe. So, if I know something to be a scam, and again this most definitely is as others have also pointed out, I don't want another merchant to have to deal with such a person. It only perpetuates the problem. It's not professional, or positive, in the least to allow people to continue on with that kind of behavior. I value myself, my work and my time. I value other creators, their work, and their time. I value them enough to not only have an opinion, but be willing to share it when needed. I don't find that to be negative in the least.

In fact I believe I gave a very good example of a situation very similar to yours, which was quite positive. Something I believe most people would actually do. I don't tend to believe most people in sl would allow a merchant to deliver them twice what they paid for, with no compensation. Whether or not this is actually true and people would, or do, I can't possibly know.  I have the belief that people, in general, are good people. Unless or until, of course, they prove otherwise by their actions or words.

[Nacy Nightfire]

You wrote (among other things filled with negativity): "The fact that a year later you didn't appreciate the kindness of a perfect stranger enough to let her know doesn't say a word about me."

It says a lot about you.  It says you are a "Shamer" .  You desire to read negative intentions into my words and actions and your attempt to twist my words to make me "wrong" is strong evidence of this.  You completely glossed over my expressions of gratitude to the person who helped me. The person who is making an awful lot of assumptions here is yourself.  The fact that you take my post so personally, and your defensive reactions to my post which clearly  wasn't directed specifically to you belies your idea that you a positve individual. 

 

[Tari Landar]

---

Nacy Nightfire wrote:

You wrote (among other things filled with negativity): "

The fact that a year later you didn't appreciate the kindness of a perfect stranger enough to let her know doesn't say a word about me."

It says a lot about you.  It says you are a "Shamer" .  You desire to read negative intentions into my words and actions and your attempt to twist my words to make me "wrong" is strong evidence of this.  You completely glossed over my expressions of gratitude to the person who helped me. The person who is making an awful lot of assumptions here is yourself.  The fact that you take my post so personally, and your defensive reactions to my post which clearly  wasn't directed specifically to you belies your idea that you a positve individual. 

 

---

No, you said it would be insane to "bring it up" a year later. I don't beleive that to be the case at all, I believe it would show gratitude and appreciation. If you did appreciate the kindness, why didn't you feel the creator was worthy of being paid? You said it would be insane to pay her, not me. So your words don't say anything about me.

You believe you did no wrong, and you did the right thing. I believe we have a difference of opinion on what right is, or isn't. I'm not defensive in the least, merely sharing a different perspective. For me to be a shamer, someone would have to feel shame, correct? If you feel no shame, I can't be a shamer.

I don't take things personally simply because I am sharing my opinion. I believe you're reading far too much into things. You stated your opinion, I stated mine. I no more think you take, or took, things personally than I believe I have. It's only a discussion. I have no personal vested interest, so I don't take things personally. (it's not very often I do, to begin with, lol)

 

[Nacy Nightfire]

Well this is just silly, so I'll finish with this.  

The seller was paid when I purchased the item initially.  If she required that I re-purchase the item this would be a completely different discussion. And I would probably have re-purchased it if required to so.  But the seller did what I would have done.  She empathised with my situation, she was flattered that I cared enough to be upset and sad about losing the item, and she gave me another copy which cost her nothing but good will.  We ended the interaction well and she did not need more validation a year later.  You seem to want to harp on some idea that this decision not to bug her a year later showed an egregious lack of manners, or some such thing.  I call it grasping as straws because you have absolutely no point to make here.

As to "For me to be a shamer, someone would have to feel shame, correct? If you feel no shame, I can't be a shamer."  That is incorrect and illogical.  You can clearly make an attempt  at this tactic and and be completely transparent in your attempt, and at the same time be completely unsuccessful in your efforts.  Clearly the case here.

[Morgan Blackwood]

Did the message looked like this?: (the words between brackets have been replaced by me, just to maintain someprivacy :-), I censured her name to "protect" her privacy aswell)

Hello Hun i bought your <itemname> and have been offline for a WILE and it seems SL has gone through a few changes and all kinds of things a Fd up the boots one to me is no trans 2 that could be because i rez it on beta grid i have talked to LL about it and it seems i have to take it up with you heres the convo due to LL TOS i ahd to hide the name of the linden

*IM guessing you ahve not got the MANY notecards i have sent you or you did not care *

 Łxxxx  Fxxxxxx


I would have sent my trans with this but i dont have nor can i find it i have the convo from LL too

  Łxxxx MxxxxxFxxxxx Fxxxxxx  (lilie.fxxxxxx): Hello Mr Linden I keep having a problem with mesh that i buy and the maker and she walys says she cant find my trans what can or do i need to do with this im spending a lot of cash

**** Linden: Please send any chats or notecards stating what you and the creater have talked about. We are having this problem all over SecondLife, we ask that you let the creater know that you are having a problem with finding your history (as they will have the same problem) and see if they will give back what is lost or your having a problem with if they faile to do so you may do a abuse report to see if maybe they are pulling a scam (only do this if you feel they are doing you wrong) If you have any more problems please feel free to contact support and have a wonderful SecondLife

  Łxxxx MxxxxxFxxxxx Fxxxxxx (lilie.fxxxxxx): Thank you may i send this convo to the maker to see if maybe she might help me?

**** Linden: If it will help as we dont really deal with inworld person to person problems unless as i stated they are wronging you in another way thank you again

 Łxxxx MxxxxxFxxxxx Fxxxxxx (lilie.fxxxxxx):nods ok thank you

 

This is a message my girlfriend received on her avatar (she has a store). Her name isn't found anywhere in our transaction history. Nor did we receive any messages/notecards from her. She contacted us a very long time ago, with a similar story, about another item she claimed "disappeared". If this is the same person we could maybe do some kind of report to Linden Labs so she can be stopped...

[PaperB]

Its exactly the same message. It is the same person no doubt inicials are the same. I filed a ticket to LL with a psd witg the logs of the event. They told me to file an AR i believe is the name not quite sure. I need to reread it lol. But anyway is witgout a doubt a scam made by the same person. If you like contact me inworld maybe we can make sime group notces or simethig beside the linden thing to do. Again sorry about the misspellings my phone ketboard sucks and my english too ^.^