SL 2.0- has there been any word on land prices?

[Darkness Anubis]

I have said for years the best thing they could do to fix the Land issues and encourage more land ownership is to do away with the tier system entirely and go to a flat xCost/SqMeter system. Yes the amount it is set at means some would spend a bit more per meter and some a bit less. The beauty of the system is that people would be willing to pick up tht odd adjoining plot to their own because they can pay just for that rather than being bumped up to the next tier and paying WAY more a month.

Example

I own a 4096 so my tier level is US$25 a month

If a 512 next to me opens up. I would love to have it but because of the tier system It would bump me up to $40 a month. Um no I will live without the 512.

Now what if instead I was playing a flat rate. Say $.006 per meter (25/4096) then that 512 would only add $.006x512=$3.07 additional monthy to the $25 I am already paying. I would buy that 512.

I also think premium in order to buy land needs to go. Anyone should be able to buy land. Many more people would happily own land if they didn't also need to have a premium act. BTW before free accounts existed there was a one time $9.95 act available and they COULD own land. It went away with the advent of free acts.

 

Just my thoughts on what I would like to see with land in the future.

[Feldspar Millgrove]

What makes you think SL 2.0 will have "Land"?

 

[Darkness Anubis]

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Feldspar Millgrove wrote:

What makes you think SL 2.0 will have "Land"?

 

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Just my 2L$ on it

I think that if LL is planning to keep the spirit of SL as Ebbe has stated then there will have to be some sort of land system. Part of what makes SL what it is, is the continuous landscape and the ability to have one's own place in it. Be it a small home plot, a large themed build, a shopping mall or club. The interconnected nature of much of the grid facilitates so many things for the residents. Boating, FLying, Driving require vast interconnected regions to explore. Neighborhoods and themed area require interconnected zones. Many people just fly from region to region exploring. Take awy that ability and you loose the sense of what SL is.

There will be some sort of continuous land system. There has to be or LL will have failed at it's stated goal. What form it will take no one knows.

[JPG0809]

Sorry you feel that way. The reason why you won't receive the solid answers you want all the time in these forums is because we aren't the lab, we're regular users like you. Sure, you'll get negative feedback but you can get some great tips and advice as well. I would suggest posting your future questions in the answer section of the forums if they aren't theoretical or your question contains a subject users may have better knowledge of.

[LillyBeth Filth]

Tamar Luminos wrote:

Well, my first post to the Second Life Forums has been very informative!  Things I have learned:

 

People love to snark, **bleep**, complain about other peoples' posts and generally be extremely condescending/rude/unwelcoming to others in this particular venue.

 

Instead of attempting to be helpful and/or informative, people will snark, complain, condescend, and then hijack the thread to parts unknown because hey, their own thoughts/opinons/questions are far more important than anyone else's.

 

Nobody has any idea about what I asked, only a vague reference that Ebbe made about "adjusting land prices" and other costs in SL (which I read in the other giant thread as I've been following info on the new platform out of interest but was hoping if I pulled this one topic out for further discussion, it might be a bit more informative.  I was apparently wrong.)

 

Guess I'll just go back to playing in SL and avoiding the forums here.  Y'all have fun with yourselves.

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It's not exclusive to Second Life forums.  ALL online forums, chat rooms, social networks evoke the worst in humanity.

Take a look at the comments on You Tube videos. 

It's what comes from not having to look someone in the eye when you're being obnoxious and I think we "all" do it albeit subconsciously.

 

[Qie Niangao]

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Darkness Anubis wrote:

The other reason MP became king is the ability to skip the Real money to L$ step and just buy with real money on the marketplace. We can't do that in world.

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Oh good heavens, I hope not! Have you ever calculated the effective L$ exchange rate on Marketplace RL-currency sales?

On the other hand, that would prove that buyers are fine with spending an extra 30% on commissions. 

I generally advise people never to use a "Market Buy" order on the LindeX because they can do about 3.5% better with a "Limit Buy", but that's dwarfed by the penalty for using RL currency on the Marketplace.

Sorry for the tangent, but our OP doesn't love us anymore, so now we're free to do whatever we want with this thread. Yippee!

[Darkness Anubis]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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Darkness Anubis wrote:

The other reason MP became king is the ability to skip the Real money to L$ step and just buy with real money on the marketplace. We can't do that in world.

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Oh good heavens, I hope not! 

Have you ever calculated the effective L$ exchange rate on Marketplace RL-currency sales?

On the other hand, that would prove that buyers are fine with spending an extra 30% on commissions. 

I generally advise people never to use a "Market Buy" order on the LindeX because they can do about 3.5% better with a "Limit Buy", but that's dwarfed by the penalty for using RL currency on the Marketplace.

Sorry for the tangent, but our OP doesn't love us anymore, so now we're free to do whatever we want with this thread. Yippee!

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Oh I know quite well what the rates are like on the Market Buy on Lindex and I agree never use it.  I know many people who simply prefer the convienience of buying with cash on the Marketplace. They don't care that the rate that they are getting is ridiculous. They get their shiny now. Same reason some people still use that little 'Buy L$" button on the viewer. It is fast, simple and convienient. That rate is pretty abyssmal as well.

[Cathy Foil]

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Darkness Anubis wrote:

I have said for years the best thing they could do to fix the Land issues and encourage more land ownership is to do away with the tier system entirely and go to a flat xCost/SqMeter system. Yes the amount it is set at means some would spend a bit more per meter and some a bit less. The beauty of the system is that people would be willing to pick up tht odd adjoining plot to their own because they can pay just for that rather than being bumped up to the next tier and paying WAY more a month.

Example

I own a 4096 so my tier level is US$25 a month

If a 512 next to me opens up. I would love to have it but because of the tier system It would bump me up to $40 a month. Um no I will live without the 512.

Now what if instead I was playing a flat rate. Say $.006 per meter (25/4096) then that 512 would only add $.006x512=$3.07 additional monthy to the $25 I am already paying. I would buy that 512.

I also think premium in order to buy land needs to go. Anyone should be able to buy land. Many more people would happily own land if they didn't also need to have a premium act. BTW before free accounts existed there was a one time $9.95 act available and they COULD own land. It went away with the advent of free acts.

 

Just my thoughts on what I would like to see with land in the future.

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You have some interesting ideas there Darkness.

I have definitely been in the same position where some land become available for purchase next to my current land and I would have loved to have bought it but doing so would have bumped me up to the next level making it not worth it.

I think the system you suggest would work much better than the current one does.

[Sparks Racecourse]

I have been in SL since 2006.   I have bought regions for $125 from other residents for the setup cost, and that is a full region private island.  My first region was bought in 2009, but tier at that time was $295 month.  I operated a themed roleplay sim, but was able to break even on the first sim in about 6 weeks.   I haven't been able to break even on full region since 2010.   The problem now is the cheap rental sims have killed the themed rental market.   So, it is impossible to break even on tier.  

LL business model for land is based on RL real estate, but I was also in the beta for Blue mars and they use an avatar based land model.   Kitely also and most every virtual world has adopted avatar land model, except SL.   LL is based on land size, but the other virtual worlds are based on the number of the avatars. 

The size of the island in SL is 256m x 256m, but in other virtual worlds you have more regions at a lower cost.  

Blue Mars was based on Cryengine 2, but their land size was up 2km x 2km. and you was allowed 50 avatars.  Setup cost was $750 and per month cost was $275.  As a sim owner, then I can give my group a lower rental costs.  SL only advantage is that offers residents adult content.  Blue Mars didn't offer adult content, but Kitely does offer it now.  Kitely is rather cheap, but not many residents there.  

 

[kiramanell]

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Darkness Anubis wrote:

I also think premium in order to buy land needs to go. Anyone should be able to buy land. Many more people would happily own land if they didn't also need to have a premium act. BTW before free accounts existed there was a one time $9.95 act available and they COULD own land. It went away with the advent of free acts.

 

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Premium to buy land?!? I never heard of this. Must be crappy mainland then. I've been renting my sim from a reputable Anshe Chung subsidiary for years; and, while I'm premium, you don't need to be. In fact, I often think of just letting go of Premium: judging by their looks, seems the free house you get pre-dates the prim-era even, and they're non-mod to boot. And you're not even allowed to put a skybox on you premium land.

[kiramanell]

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Darkness Anubis wrote:

Oh I know quite well what the rates are like on the Market Buy on Lindex and I agree never use it.  I know many people who simply prefer the convienience of buying with cash on the Marketplace. They don't care that the rate that they are getting is ridiculous. They get their shiny now. Same reason some people still use that little 'Buy L$" button on the viewer. It is fast, simple and convienient. That rate is pretty abyssmal as well.

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And, pray-tell, what method do *you* use then to buy Lindens, if not using the "Buy L$" button?! I justy double-checked, and all website methods of buying Lindens lead to the same page. Is inworld buying cheaper perhaps?

[Qie Niangao]

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kiramanell wrote:

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Darkness Anubis wrote:

I also think premium in order to buy land needs to go. Anyone should be able to buy land. Many more people would happily own land if they didn't also need to have a premium act. BTW before free accounts existed there was a one time $9.95 act available and they COULD own land. It went away with the advent of free acts.

---

Premium to buy land?!? I never heard of this. Must be crappy mainland then.

I've been renting my sim from a reputable Anshe Chung subsidiary for years; and, while I'm premium, you don't need to be. In fact, I often think of just letting go of Premium: judging by their looks, seems the free house you get pre-dates the prim-era even, and they're non-mod to boot. And you're not even allowed to put a skybox on you premium land.

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You appear to be confusing Mainland with Linden Homes, both of which require Premium membership.

We could debate the relative merits of Estate vs (real) Mainland ownership, but that's been done to death, and always ends up at different people wanting different things from their SL land.

In the case of SL2, I do think that Mainland is rather more an issue than Estates. Whatever they decide to do with land, I can't imagine they'll not use some kind of channel partners to distribute and maintain it, as the Estates do now, and end users will probably be able to rent similar Land products. (That is, I can't imagine they'd make the minimum dimension of isolated landmass suddenly 1024 x 1024 and therefore cost sixteen times as much, so nobody could afford a private island.)

Mainland, in contrast, is huge and it would be absurdly inefficient to wholly replicate all the SL1 continents in SL2. It seems very unlikely, then, that one could own the exact same Mainland in both worlds.

[Qie Niangao]

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kiramanell wrote:

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Darkness Anubis wrote:

Oh I know quite well what the rates are like on the Market Buy on Lindex and I agree never use it.  I know many people who simply prefer the convienience of buying with cash on the Marketplace. They don't care that the rate that they are getting is ridiculous. They get their shiny now. Same reason some people still use that little 'Buy L$" button on the viewer. It is fast, simple and convienient. That rate is pretty abyssmal as well.

---

And, pray-tell, what method do *you* use then to buy Lindens, if not using the "Buy L$" button?!

I justy double-checked, and all website methods of buying Lindens lead to the same page. Is inworld buying cheaper perhaps?

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Darkness is saying the "inworld buying" is to be avoided -- that's what she meant by "little 'Buy L$' button on the viewer."

Also, if one really wants to get the best rate and can afford to wait a few minutes, you can always save about 3.5% by scrolling the web page down to the Limit Buy "Offer to Buy" button, offering just better than the current block of best offers to buy. (Otherwise, a "market buy" gets you the best offer to sell, and you can see the Bid / Ask spread.

[kiramanell]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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kiramanell wrote:

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Darkness Anubis wrote:

I also think premium in order to buy land needs to go. Anyone should be able to buy land. Many more people would happily own land if they didn't also need to have a premium act. BTW before free accounts existed there was a one time $9.95 act available and they COULD own land. It went away with the advent of free acts.

---

Premium to buy land?!? I never heard of this. Must be crappy mainland then.

I've been renting my sim from a reputable Anshe Chung subsidiary for years; and, while I'm premium, you don't need to be. In fact, I often think of just letting go of Premium: judging by their looks, seems the free house you get pre-dates the prim-era even, and they're non-mod to boot. And you're not even allowed to put a skybox on you premium land.

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You appear to be confusing Mainland with Linden Homes, both of which require Premium membership.

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Where did you get that from?! LOL. All I was saying is, that you don't need to be Premium in order to rent land, and that the other reason to be Premium (the free home) isn't really worth it, either.

[Qie Niangao]

Well, for example you said "you're not even allowed to put a skybox on you premium land" but that's only true of Linden Homes, not the Mainland, but both require Premium membership. One gets 512 sq.m.as a "Premium bonus" but spending it on a Linden Home is... a choice.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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kiramanell wrote:

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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kiramanell wrote:

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Darkness Anubis wrote:

I also think premium in order to buy land needs to go. Anyone should be able to buy land. Many more people would happily own land if they didn't also need to have a premium act. BTW before free accounts existed there was a one time $9.95 act available and they COULD own land. It went away with the advent of free acts.

---

Premium to buy land?!? I never heard of this. Must be crappy mainland then.

I've been renting my sim from a reputable Anshe Chung subsidiary for years; and, while I'm premium, you don't need to be. In fact, I often think of just letting go of Premium: judging by their looks, seems the free house you get pre-dates the prim-era even, and they're non-mod to boot. And you're not even allowed to put a skybox on you premium land.

---

You appear to be confusing Mainland with Linden Homes, both of which require Premium membership.

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Where did you get that from?! LOL. All I was saying is, that you don't need to be Premium in order to rent land, and that the other reason to be Premium (the free home) isn't really worth it, either.

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You have to be premium to buy land from LL. You are renting land from a second party. Which means they control the land, you can only put your things on it. 99% of the time you can not edit the terrain like you can if you buy fom LL.

[Darkness Anubis]

Yes I do Live on mainland. Some of us like that model better than renting from a landbaron.

I made my L$ years ago Also I am one of the old ones that get 500 L$ a week accounts. THere is not much I need to buy as I can make pretty much anything I need. SO really I fully expect what I have left from my creator days to last quite handle till SL2 come.

 

Edit :Rereading what you said. If you change your lindex settings to advanced and are willing to wait a few days you can get a better deal on L$ by doing a limit buy on hte Lindex than the Market buy or the button on the viewer.

[Darkness Anubis]

Qie after all these years

 

I am a HE

[Qie Niangao]

:smileyembarrassed:

[kiramanell]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

You have to be premium to buy land from LL. You are renting land from a second party. Which means they control the land, you can only put your things on it. 99% of the time you can not edit the terrain like you can if you buy fom LL.

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I think you may be underestimating the professionalism of the larger Landlords. I'm with a major subsidiary of Anshe Chung. I get full Estate Rights. The *only* thing I cannot do myself is upload the terrain meshes, Big deal. Whenever I want that (which is very, very rare), I just ask, and they do it for me.

Speaking of doing it for me, I wouldn't have it any other way any more. It's a public secret that LL pretty much ignores all Estate support requests, unless you own upward of 30 sims. Yet, with my Landlord, they say jump, and Linden asks, How high? And they maintain extensive, regularly updated blacklists (with know griefers on it). And they never interfere with the operation of my sim, ever.

Theoretically, Anshe Chung et al. could go bankrupt, I suppose. But, way I figure this, by the time that happens, SL itself will have died.

Oh yeah, and I don't have to pay the Lindens the $1,000 RL bucks.

[RickForrest]

This discussion has been all over the place but the fact is that the cost of land and a lot of other items are ridiulous.  From what I have read that stems from the cost of space on the LL servers.  Whatever it is, it simply prices most people out of the market for a place to live aside from the cheap and largely shoddy rentals that are up all over the place. 

In Boulder, Colorado much the same is happening. The city has a limited space within which to build so therre are a finite number of dwellings.  Since so many want to live the price of land is skyrocketing just as it has been here for whar is apparently a long time. If you live in subsidized housing or if you are very wealthy you can afford a place to live.,  If, however, you are middle class then you are simply priced out of the market or taxed out by rising costs of the homes around you..  Unfortunatel, the majority of Americans are in the vanishing middle class. The same thing happens here.

If you have plenty of money to throw at a game for rent or tiers you can have what you wish.  if you have to work for lindens then you are going to be relagated to the slums.  The amount of money you can make here without those rare special skills of a crator is nothing short of pathetiic and in rl would probably not amount to minimum wages.  If i am someone that only gets 20 or hours a week on SL and I have to spend 15 of those working to afford a place, where did the fun go?  Tthat is just an example but I'm sure My point is clear.  The cost of land or even rentals is far out of line with what might be earned.  I might even be able to buy cheaper land, but with prims as they are the whole prim count can eaten up by a shack.

I too am hoping that they do something to fix this but i hold out little hope as this has been going on for years byt what I've read.  Even in the face of a major, worldwide recession nothing was done to change it.  All I can say is keep your fingers crossed for some new rulles or new land.