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Tari Landar

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Posts posted by Tari Landar


  1. mypixlalt wrote:

    Ha hey!

    The things you listed sound way better then they actually are, well IMO.

    Vistiting an amusement park or zoo sounds great but it's usually empty and made of old builds. As far as I remember my last trips at least.

    Parachuting off the eiffel tour sounds great but it's over in like 10 seconds and wasn't fun at all, well unless you're drunk or doing it with others..

     


    Oh, I see, ty for clarifying.

    Well, I still say.. 10 seconds of fun is usually better than 10 seconds of misery, or boredom, lol. Myabe individually they're not all that great. But an hour, day, week even, full of them might be. I gathered from the OP that being around other people probably isn't the best thing right now, I could easily be wrong. That's why i suggest things one can do alone, lol. When I'm grumpy, I don't even want to be near me, much less anyone else, lol.


  2. SpiritLydia wrote:

    First of all, how would LL even know it's not a stolen DL?

     

    And, if as Griffin, on page 1 here says, I will lose all my inventory, then what is the point of having a reactivation at all?

     

    And as far as Paypal, it used to be a bank with it's own credit card, etc., as to whether it is still a bank, I'm not sure. However, Paypal has a way of making sure it is you by depositing a small amount of change in your account which is added to your bank statement, and then you activate with that small amount of change (say .32 cents for example) plus other security measure that Paypal employs. 

     

    However, what's the point of having a reactivation if there is nothing to reactive as stated by Griffin on Page 1, which I did not see when I deactivated.  When I deactivated, there was no such warning.  It said, it may be difficult to reactivate, but not that all items would be eliminated.  As to why I deactivated, that's neither here nor there at this point in time.  It was an illness, not necessary to talk about.   

    Paypal has *never* been a bank. Having a credit card does not in fact, make a business a bank.  Businesses with cards like that, make deals with actual financial institutions, to offer those cards. Paypal has always been, and will always be, an aquirer,. They accept and process payments for websites, businesses and financial institutions. I started doing business with paypal around 2000, a couple years before ebay aquired it. You are 100% mistaken on what you think paypal is. I may not like the company, but I do know who and what they are, and always have. I think it's important. Then again I used them for actual business purposes, so I read ALL the fine print. I tend to do that anyway, though, lol.

    The warning WAS on the page before you deactivated. It has been there since at least 2006, the last time I deactivated an account. It wasn't always highlighted, or bolded, or as descriptive as it is now, but the warning is right there blatantly in your face. It has always been clear. You ignoring it, as we so often do, does not mean it wasn't there. It also doesn't say you won't get your inventory, friendslist, land and such back. It says there is a possibility it cannot be recovered. This seems to typically apply to accounts that have been cancelled for quite some time. I wouldn't classify 3 weeks as such a lengthy time this will be a problem. You can speak with them on that matter though. The longer you take, the more likely it is to be lost. Which seems pretty reasonable to me. Can't expect they'd hold onto the assets forever while we twiddle our thumbs.

    Most people who are this resilient to providing proof of something, only do so because they don't have that proof, or did something that would make their proof not  effective. Such as creating an account you shouldn't have, using false or stolen information, that sort of thing. I am not saying that's what you've done, but that is the primary reason most, including ll will be skeptical. It's why they need proof. There is absolutely no reason to believe ll will do sinister things with your dl. ID, in whatever form you might have, is needed quite often for identification purposes. That's sort of a given, since it's called "identification", that's it's sole purpose in life. How can they identify you without this information? Saying that "well maybe the ID is stolen too" makes you sound ridiculous. Do you really think someone would go through all the hoops you're going through now, with a stolen ID? Not only creating an account, with all the proper information(name, email, etc..) but then cancelling said account, followed up by needing proper ID to reinstate it. Come on now. Even you have to know how ridiculous that sounds. I don't like being mean, and I'm really not trying to be, but I have no clue why you're so resistant.

    If you don't want them having your ID, make a new account, and this time don't deactivate it. Otherwise, be prepared to pony up what they need, if you want to use the services.


  3. mypixlalt wrote:

    Tari: Hobbies can include anything from getting a new pet, to sim hopping, finding new rl places in sl that you've never seen before, wandering aimlessly, going to an arcade or amusement park, various sports in sl(there are TONS, even if you hate sports, some sl ones are actually a lot of fun, way more than their rl counterpart). Hobbies don't have to just be what you'd do in rl, or artsy sorts. The world of sl is so much larger and more accessible than the rl one is for almost all of us. Go bungy jumping, fly a plane into an ocean, ride your bike on the freeway/highway, sit down at the zoo and talk with a gorilla, visit art museums and make fun of what some think is art(not to their faces of course-and yes I know that sounds mean ), take up gardening, go surfing, parachute off the eiffel tower-or even ...

    ___________________________________________________________

     

    (No idea how to quote)

    It always sounds like soo much fun! And then SL reality hits..

     

     

     


    Huh, lol. It is, and can be, loads of fun. What sl reality are you talking about?

  4. This might be an odd response, but I gather from your previous answers that you're quite frustrated. I've been there. I'm not going to tell you to quit whining and just fix it already, because frankly you already know that's what you need to do, lol. We all do that from time to time. We know what we need to do, or how to figure out what it is we need to do, we're just reluctant, ok probably too lazy is more applicable in most cases, to actually do it.

    So, while you're figuring out all of that rl stuff, and what to do with yourself there, maybe I can offer a suggestion for sl.

    You said you're a grouchy person, and, you're very frustrated, I can see that. I don't see the club scene as being the sort of place someone like that would or should go and actually enjoy themselves. So have you tried something more, alone. I know being alone is probably not what you were asking for, but it might be a good idea. I went through a phase like that once. Hubby was out of state for a while and I was just kinda...blah...about everything. For all sorts of reasons, none really relevant here. Then I found a sim where I could destroy things. It's surprisingly fun. I found sims where I could shoot people, shoot NPCs, zombies, things like this. Good way to get my frustrations out. Then I built my own targets, of sorts. They weren't, and still aren't, fancy by any means. I usually have to take them somewhere relatively empty, where I am allowed to run their scripts-so I don't ruin anyone's experience while there. They're pretty heavy load-wise. I practice with them on an OS we have too(where there are no other people and the only load is to my own system). I build them up, have fun shooting the crap out of them, then start over. It probably sounds childish. A lot like building with blocks, knocking them down, then re-doing it, again and again and again. Sometimes I build ones that literally blow up before they repair, that can be real fun. But it's a great way to relieve stress, lol. Give the objects names of everything annoying the hell out of you. They don't have to be nice looking, so you don't have to engage your more artsy side. Hell my targets are usually plain old prims with some color added, or random textures I already made, lol.

    Of course you can do that in rl too, but it will probably require more work than you're currently willing to give. Sl is the lazy way, and is my chosen method when I get uber frustrated.

    Most of my friends have come and gone in sl. Some I'd even consider family, and still do. It happens. It's not fun, but it does happen. For a while I would get easily frustrated simply because NONE of them were around, like, ever. Then I realized that even when they were, I didn't really make much of an effort myself. So, a bit pointless to be angry about it. Unless I want to be angry at myself, and come on, who wants to do that.

    Everyone else already said what I would have said, before reading your responses. But I can clearly see why few, if any, of them would work for you at the current moment. You're stuck in frustrated mode and it's going to make everything irritate you on some level. This is why I suggest finding something to point that frustration at, and basically tell it to screw off. There are TONS (ok there were, I'm not inworld atm to search) of sims made for just shooting and blowing things up. I've been to ones entirely empty too.

    There are also sims with things like mazes, puzzles and such. When you're a little less frustrated, those might be a viable option. They're kinda fun and sometimes way more fun when you're alone. At least that way if you get pissed off, you're not directing it to anyone else. I like places like that sometimes. Even times when I am frustrated beyond belief. You'd be surprised how one utterly and annoying puzzle you can't seem to figure out, can help ease frustration. I know, it doesn't seem likely, but, sometimes it is.

    Hobbies can include anything from getting a new pet, to sim hopping, finding new rl places in sl that you've never seen before, wandering aimlessly, going to an arcade or amusement park, various sports in sl(there are TONS, even if you hate sports, some sl ones are actually a lot of fun, way more than their rl counterpart). Hobbies don't have to just be what you'd do in rl, or artsy sorts. The world of sl is so much larger and more accessible than the rl one is for almost all of us. Go bungy jumping, fly a plane into an ocean, ride your bike on the freeway/highway, sit down at the zoo and talk with a gorilla, visit art museums and make fun of what some think is art(not to their faces of course-and yes I know that sounds mean :P ), take up gardening, go surfing, parachute off the eiffel tower-or even anywhere totally and utterly inappropriate(as long as you're not messing with other people. I do this all the time, but I never mess with others, I just randomly jump, freefall for a bit, then open my chute). There's not a whole lot of limit to what you can do in sl. The problem isn't that there's nothing to do, it's that you're stuck in perpetual frustration so anything you do seems not worthwhile and boring. Gotta get out of that part first, maybe something you haven't yet tried, or haven't tried in ages will help.

    I don't recommend going out to meet new people until you sort yourself. That would be one suggestion, of all of them, I'd say is the absolute worst. You're not likely going to come at them with your best foot forward and will be more likely to drive them away. Then you'll just get more frustrated. I also don't recommend an sl job, until you're less frustrated. You won't find peace in something like that.

    Taking a break might help, but it might not too. It will only help if you've something else to fill your day.

    Here's a link for your ID, you said you're in England, so that's where I looked. It may or may not help, I can't say, I'm not on that side of the pond. But it's probably a better starting point than trying to talk to your mother.

    https://www.gov.uk/apply-online-to-replace-a-driving-licence

  5. Nope, not following it. Not because I am mean, hate royalty, or hate babies. I believe all babies are a miracle of infinite worth. However, roughly 352,755 people will be born in the world today. I don't believe any single one is more important, or special, than another.

    The hype irritates me, mainly because for a lot of the world, the royal family doesn't have the same meaning as it does there. We shouldn't be expected to celebrate simply because the baby will be born into the royal family. No more than I'd expect a baby born to a president in the US to be celebrated worldwide, simply because its father or mother, is the president. It really is all over and extremely in your face.

    I've already ticked off others for saying so, though, lol.

  6. I don't think mesh is really being pushed. Some creators might, but I don't think most are.It's just there, because it's (relatively) new. It's not corporate greed to want to make money. Sl is a business and they do have every right to earn a profit if they want. They sort of need to, for sl to be here for us at all anyway. I feel the same way about creators. Everyone else might believe most creators don't cash out or don't use their sl profits for rl expensese, but I don't believe it. I think a lot of creators do, even if they don't cash out huge amounts at once.

    I don't much care for a lot of mesh things, either. Some of it looks awesome, on people it was made to fit. My numbers take me out of the running for any of the standard sizes, so most doesn't fit me anyway. I much prefer system clothes with sculpty bits here and there, like cuffs and stuff. There are still a TON of creators who make the kind of stuff I like, so I'm not worried.

    On the flips side, lots of people love mesh and it looks great on them. So I'm glad there are creators that can and will cater to that too. There really is something out there for everyone. Some of us might have to look a tiny bit harder.

    Mesh is just one more log on the fire, imo. I don't have to like, or buy it, but that doesn't make it a bad thing. Sl needs more logs on the fire to both grow and also improve. That means technology will advance, the tools we have will advance, the things we're offered as creators and consumers will advance. I saw the same arguments from people when sculpties started coming around. There's always gonna be something I don't like, or someone else doesn't like. I can live with that.

    If your new viewer is being a pain in the butt, you may want to try one of the other viewers. Firestorm and singularity are the most popular. Maybe your pc and the sl viewer just aren't going to be best buds.

  7. People are jealous in sl for the same reasons they are jealous in rl.

    You may see sl as something entirely separate from rl, but not everyone agrees. It's up to you to respect that and not act like your opinion is the only right one. Everyone is entitled to treat sl, and live their sl however they wish, as long as it goes along with TOS. I don't know why you'd continue being around someone, knowing you're causing problems for that person and their partner. You're only contributing to the drama. It's neither sick in the head, nor wrong, to allow rl to come into play in sl. Just like it's not if you completely separate the two. I do both, depending on who I'm dealing with.

    She probably attacked you in the same way you did her. I can clearly see you don't care what others' opinions are on anything. You're going to do what you want to do, when you want to do it. I'm going to guess you didn't talk to her any better than you did here and likely called her names as well. So why do you care what she, or anyone else thinks? Why did she upset you if sl is just sl and nothing more?

    Why can't you just go find someone else instead of creating an even bigger issue than there needs to be? You'll save all three of you the drama that is sure to follow. I wouldn't laugh at her for being jealous, but I will laugh at someone who thinks their opinion is the only right one no matter what. I'll also laugh at people who create drama for themselves while claiming everyone else around them is doing it. That's pretty funny. You're acting quite immature and I really hope you're strapped in tight on that high horse. She may be acting immature too, but we don't have her side, just yours. So I can only go on what you've said. I can say your actions, and words, are a contributing reason many get upset and even jealous both in rl and in sl. Because you show absolutely no regard for anyone but yourself.

    Sorry if that's harsh, but, it's the truth.

  8. Just as others ought to respect, even if they don't understand or agree, that you don't want private ims, you have to understand that others don't share your views. Not everyone sees an im as something necessarily private, let alone perverted. Sometimes it's just the easiest way to have a direct conversation with someone.

    Even if you put a hovertext script over your head, there is no guarantee others will see it. If you really do not want private ims, I would put it in your profile. People are more likely to see that. Not everyone will read it. Some will still im you, but probably not as many otherwise.

    If I imd you, couldn't see the text above your head  and your profile says nothing about ims, I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume I know you don't want them. You have to tell people and I don't think a hovertext is a wise way to do that. Not that you've done something wrong or anything. You just have an opinion others might not share.

    As for being muted, it may have something to do with what you told the person when they imd you, or what you had in text over your head. Sometimes our approach seems fine to us but to others not so much.

  9. When I go to events like this, I go naked.

    Ok, not really naked, but yes kinda naked. I strip everything down, throw on a full body alpha, put on a very plain solid colored skin(in case my alpha for whatever reason fails, don't want bits showing), take off all attachments including huds, and fly everywhere. Sometimes I walk too, but not usually if it's real big. That way I can stay out of others' way.

    I also don't stand around longer than I have to. If I need to go afk, I tp out. No point in taking up agent room I don't intend to use.

  10. 1b is actually the easiest to see at first glance, just not read. It stands out  more than the others, because of the contrast between the outline and the inner fill.

    I do like 2b, the best of that group. If it were me I'd make the font much thicker with a slight dark(even slightly shadowed) outline around the lettering, and a smaller frame/background. The letters kinda get swallowed by the background.

    I'm legally blind though. So I probably don't quite see what everyone else does, lol.

  11. Sometimes the reason might be as simple as they have their default uploads set to a specific set of perms and either don't bother changing them, or maybe even forgot.

    I've done that, lol. In fact I did it a couple times before it dawned on me to change my default upload perms. I haven't done it since.

    I'm sure that's not the reason for everyone, but it might be a reason for some.


  12. Phil Deakins wrote:


    Tari Landar wrote:


    chrismignon McDonnell wrote:

    It's a team of moderator if i'm not wrong who own the forum software LL don't moderate forum

    I'm not sure where you got that info, but they're still linden lab employees as far as I know. That's what ll has always said anyway.

    I don't think they are LL employees. Whoever they are, I believe they are 3rd party moderators, although 'moderators' is something of a misnomer, because they don't moderate.

    I know in 2009-ish the forums had one sole linden moderator and he quit. They were supposed to go with a third party moderating team after it, but it fell through. There's an old jira about it, but it's from 2009. One of the meetings with Amanda Linden she said they will be lindens, part of the oru team, but still lindens. I haven't seen anything else about it since. I doubt they'd go with a third party anyway, it would mean having to pay them :P

    lemme see if i can find the transcript

    Ok this is the transcript, it's long for those who don't want to read, I'll quote the part where I got the linden employee thing from. It's from 2011 but I haven't seen anything about it since. S'pose I should expect they'd still be vague about it, lol.

    http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Tools_User_Group/10-Feb-2011

    13:25]Amanda Linden:the moderators will be an extension of oru team--LIndens

    [13:12]Amanda Linden:we will have moderators in the community platform 7 days a week and will work through the items that are flagged.

    I do gotta give them props, because they do remove the spam, even on the weekends when before they rarely ever did. Not ideal, but at least they don't take days and days to remove it anymore. Maybe some slips through a little longer, but that's why we have the ric option.

    Sorry not trying to be a smartbutt, or argumentative, lol. I just remembered reading it a while ago and again recently too.


  13. Madelaine McMasters wrote:

    I haven't seen many episodes of "Cheers", Tari. But, I certainly understand the theme song, and friends have called me Ms. Claven. I live outside a smallish town, and have been here almost my entire life. It's nice to walk into a place and hear "Maddy!", even if it's in anger ;-)

    It's pretty neat that a group of you migrated from TSO to SL. I've left behind many circles of friends as I've switched venues over the years.

    It was pretty cool to migrate over with a lot of friendly faces. We became pretty close in TSO and it just got better here. Most of us have since parted ways somewhat, but not entirely. Fond memories. I think everyone likes having at least some place outside of home, that's familiar and friendly.

    I was going to post this video instead, so I'll share it as well. The song is just as fitting for me in sl as it is in rl. Problems or not, sl is a pretty beautiful world and I like it a lot ;) The pictures are part of a two year environmental study my kids are taking part in.

  14. Ok, so the video isn't the most fantastic, lol.

    The real reason doesn't apply to sl as much as it does the game I used to spend most of my spare time in, but it kinda shifted when we did. Most of my friends migrated from an online game. TSO anybody?

    This was a song I played shortly after I met hubby after randomly wandering into a room he happened to live in. I dj'd there nearly nightly until EA closed up shop on us. Then we came here permanently, we were both already here just not much. This song became a running joke in that room, and eventually in sl for the group of us that permanently migrated. Not really a joke in the funny sense. I guess you had to be there. This song has many a memory attached for me, and hubby. We've even gone through and watched every single episode of the show, more than a few times. Yeah, we're weird.

     edited to fix my spelling, again

  15. It's not camping because you can set the options so people cant use auto and have to actually be there, not afk, to actually fish.

    I wouldn't personally shut that option off, since people like it, though. 7seas is pretty popular.

  16. [1] WELCOME MESSAGE - When you enter a club the host should welcome you...
    a) at once! The see my name pop up on radar and should show me they watch for new arrivals (also means you are often greeted by your original SL name as the one you chose later isn't shown on most radars).
    b) when I come into view, closer to the stage.
    c) don't mind if they don't say "hi" all that soon but at some point it'd be nice. I'll also add that it needs to be personal, not an emote or gesture, not from a scripted object. No canned responses, at all.
    d) think DILLIGAF (do I look like a give a f...)

    [2] GESTURES
    a) I hate gestures! I absolutely cannot, and will not stand ANY gestures. I will leave if a club even allows patrons to abuse them. Most who use them, abuse them, imo. They'll say "oh we don't use them much", I say bs, lol. People really do use the stupid things way too much.
    b) Some gestures are OK but I'm bored seeing the same gestures all the time and everywhere.
    c) Some gestures are OK and I don't mind if the same ones recur.
    d) I love gestures, can't get enough of it!

    [3] CAPITAL LETTERS
    a) Oh my god, stop the shouting! It's totally impersonal and I don't read that stuff. Also makes notices harder to read. I hate when people do this. Even "important" messages in a club aren't that damn important. I would have checked option c, but then it's left to interpretation. Some club owners and hosts thing the canned gestures they use are important messages, and the begging for tips, and crap.
    b) I hate it in chat but it makes notices more readable.
    c) For general announcements everyone in the club should see they are ok. But not for normal talk.
    d) I don't wanna miss anything the host is saying and caps are really helpful.

    [4] WOW WORDS (e.g. wow, omg, sexy, awesome)
    a) I'm so damn bored by it... is really every DJ awesome and every host sexy? Be more creative in notices and chat! Idiotic when used by patrons constantly, worse when used by staff. Aside from that it makes them all sound immature, with extremely limited vocabularies. Doesn't speak volumes about the kinds of people you hire when you not only allow but even worse encourage them to use canned gestures.
    b) Hey, sometimes it's just true, no need to hide that. But don't overuse it!
    c) It totally energizes me when hosts do mood upping shouts!

    [5] TIP SHOUTS (hosts asking patrons to tip the DJ, DJ's asking on mic to tip the host)
    a) If a DJ/host is good they'll get tipped. No need to beg for it. I've worked as a dj, host and dancer. We never needed to beg for tips. I've worked in different venues and ANYTIME I worked somewhere that had their hosts beg for tips I'd either refuse to work with those people, or choose not to work at that venue. I happen to believe  venue owners should pay their staff so tips won't be seen as a paycheck but rather an actual thank you for the job they've performed. Most good venues, even those that may not necessarily profit, can pay their staff. A venue owner who can't, probably won't be around too long and very well may be in over their head. They may have to actually research and get creative when it comes ot bringing in profit so they can pay their staff.
    b) Once in an hour is ok. Sometimes you get lost in talk but actually wanted to tip.
    c) Once every 30 minutes is ok. It doesn't hurt to friendly remind people that someone is working for their entertainment.
    d) People should be reminded often that there are people on stage doing a show.

    [6] NOTICES
    a) I prefer a quick overview (DJ, Host, When, Where, What), preferably in caps.
    b) I prefer a quick overview (DJ, Host, When, Where, What), preferably WITHOUT caps.
    c) Most of them look all the same, I want a more creative touch so it's actually fun reading them.
    d) I usually ignore them because they don't say anything of interest to me. When I wanna know when a specific person hosts or DJs I ask them. Don't read 'em, don't even turn them on for 99% of my groups. I know how to find notices if I wanna read 'em.


  17. Malanya wrote:

    Local chat does if it's doing something against the TOS as with a certain vendor how it spurts out in local that you are an alt or a griefer. That is against the TOS.

    If local chat violates a persons privacy re: rl it can't be used either.

    True, if the information it's spurting out is something like listing the alts you have, sharing any rl information about you, or sharing private ims even, that's a tos violation everywhere on sl property(forums, inworld, etc.)

    My comment about it not applying was more for the whole logging/saving info part since that seems to be what the op is most worried about and thinks IS the tos violation. It's not a violation for an object, or person, to log anything said in local chat. . That object could have just as easily called the op a purple people eater. It still wouldn't be a tos violation to state, and then log, what it said. If that were the case even visitor counters would violate tos, and they don't either.


  18. Orca Flotta wrote:

    Ok, I see the whole discussion two-fold:

    Of course the OP came across like a right **bleep**, no question about it. But otoh being overly sorry for the poor ppl who can't afford a decent PC is rather shortsighted as well. M
    aybe they are just too poor to buy a decent PC because they are blowing away all their money on drugs, hookers, sports cars, children, fashion, house, exotic vacations, giant TV screens and nonsense like that. Let them get left behind.

     

    I might be going out on a limb here, but I believe there is simply a matter of different interpretations on the bolded above.

    Me, personally, it doesn't offend in the least. Probably because it takes a bit more for me to be insulted. Ok, most of the time it does, lol. Sometimes I fly off the handle as easily as anyone else would, or could. (not that I believe anyone really did, of course).

    I can fully understand why some might be offended at the statement. It's an interesting mix of things on that list. For some, I think we'd all agree are probably somewhat frivolous in the grand scheme for many people, if not most. Yet others, aren't, and many probably don't consider them nonsense. Children, and house, might fall under that category.

    What one person finds frivolous or nonsense, another might not. Different strokes and all that. No need to take everything so personally. Sometimes it's easier said than done, though. I'm quite certain every one of us has gotten offended at something others see no reason to be offended by. It happens. Tone isn't easily perceived over the net, no matter how hard we try.

    I can also understand why Orca said it, though. One person's opinion isn't always going to match another person's. It's very easy to take cues from context and apply our own definitions when we've nothing else to go on, like body language and voice. Everyone does it.

    I still do believe that some people have an ability to make others' plight seem little, because it's not one they share. They may not always understand why something that to them seems minor, but for others is really a major letdown(at best). They also may not understand why their own words might come across harshly. There are some posts that seem more "screw everyone else, I want what I want". There are some posts that come across to me as "if I can't get better service, you shouldn't either". Always two sides to a coin.

    It's also quite simple to tack on just one word or phrase that will make our posts seem more aggressive than we probably intended. It could also easily paint us as an aggressive person. In this case, it might be the word nonsense. Semantics, picking apart a post based on one word, but I wouldn't believe anyone who told me they've never done it, lol. Even if the intent to seem aggressive, or actually be it, doesn't exist, it's easy to feel that it does when you're reading from another perspective.

    Sorry Orca I only replied to your post so I could quote that one tidbit. It's really just a general post for the thread, not necessarily directed at just you, or really anyone.

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