Prokofy Neva

Um, why do you think rail enthusiasts should not only take over land on the Mainland by agitating the Lindens to tier it for them AND you get to monopolize the discusion about it on the forums, too??? Look ,the railroad in Grote has been pulled up now. Good! John Ruskin has prevailed! The Lindens can you agitators can look at the map and figure out what abandoned land or Linden-owned land might serve here, without having to ruin the view or grab resident parcels.

1. THAT there is a fee, and it is not trivial, is something I've now confirmed with one prominent creator, although they would not give me the figure. 2. @Phil Deakins Your are not in these events, so you don't have the knowledge about it. If you think they will tell people, try asking. You are likely to have the experience I'm having -- they won't tell. This is held close. 3. @mikka Luik if it isn't secret, why not give us some numbers and names? Trust me, I know how to do simple searches on Google and look at all kinds of sales sites. I'm not seeing it. ALL of them are by invite. That is, if you know of a major event with significant attendance that has open stalls with open rental boxes, I'd love to hear it! But that's not how it works. 4. @Theresa Tennyson It's hardly about my calls to boycott, as I am boycotting one event but avidly attending many others and publicizing them. And long before my boycott of ONE event began, I asked about this cost innocently and got nowhere. So what IS the secret, guys? 5. If anybody thinks this is open information, do share. I'd like to understand the costs of event so I can understand the gatcha economy better. Consumers pay $1000, $1500 or more to buy into special events with products limited to that event and that audience. That's the number they've come up with, which roughly ads up to say, 10 pulls or 20 pulls or whatever of a $50 gatcha. So, the merchants likely pay something like $2,500 at a minimum. How do I come up with that figure? Well, let's say a merchant has a $195 grandfathered full-prim sim. Sure, he could put his event on homestead sim but that would be folly as they don't hold more than 10 or 12 people comfortably and events get hard beatings of 40 plus avatars constantly. So he'll have 20 merchants, and each will pay US $9.75 which is about L$2,500. But I bet he charges more, as he needs to pay tier plus hire CSAs etc. Events are seldom longer than a month.

I guess you have never seen my blog, which is highly comprehensive and goes back 12 years. http://3dblogger.typepad.com/second_thoughts In real life, if a country or population group doesn't have a history written, you don't "blame the government" because the government isn't required to write history and when it does, can write it with bias. You look to other institutions like universities, think tanks, folklore societies and the like to gather history. Real historians understand they have to go to many different places to gather eyewitness testimony, oral histories, written documents, etc. If you feel something is at risk to being lost, you can't ask the government (Linden Lab) to take care of it. You have to do it yourself or get others in the private sector or educational world to do this. Unfortunately, the educators who have been in SL have generally been supremely indifferent and even hostile to the world of residents itself and their affairs. They only wanted to use the platform and their islands for their own education of RL affairs. And in fairness, few of them would be able to land a grant to chronicle the history of a virtual world, although at one point, at around 2005-2007 or even in 2009, in the early days of the Obama Administration, and in the Blair administration, as one developer told me, it wasn't a question of WHETHER you would get a grant, it was merely an issue of showing up at the right window with your hand outstretched, as there was tons of money around for virtual stuff -- as there is again, btw. The SL Wiki, which people are mourning now because it is suspended (I'm not among them given its bias) has something of what you are asking for, but certainly not all of it. Wikipedia has some of it. Google is your best friend. And sorry, the fact that "the government" or "somebody else who did the work and paid for it" didn't make a database of all the cultural events in Second Life (!!!) doesn't at all mean that SL is rubbish. Although it might mean that your theory is.

Qie, all of this is misleading if not untrue. The SLRR was planned and laid across the atoll continent, for example, all at once not long after the sims were created. If some little spur of it wasn't finished that doesn't cancel out the basic truth that it was planned and built. Obviously, Lindens didn't spend months -- years -- trying to piece it together from abandoned land and buy-outs of private owners. It was a Linden project, on Linden land, not only "for the most part" but "mainly" -- and the edge cases you're invoking don'to cancel that out. Cranky ad farmers extorting is a problem the Lindens should have solved for all of us, globally, years ago, instead of allowing nearly 5 years to go by while all our land was reduced in value and many were forced to feed extortionists to "buy the view". So invoking this global problem as a rail enthusiast's obstacle to try to gain sympathy from me is a no-go. They shouldn't have existed because the rules put in place after five years to curb extortion and prevent proliferation of ads could have been put in instantly, instead of waiting while ideological communists, techno-libertarians and assorted enthusiasts on the spectrum had their way. I once talked to a prominent ad baron at a conference who charged $10,000L to "buy the view" for parcels in his empire with ugly stuff on them. He was a Wall Street programmer. He had a job and didn't need this income. It was "fun". It was "a hobby". And "why not". Etc. Please don't talk to me about microparcels. Recently, I asked the Lindens to sell me a 32m micro-baron's extortion plot in the middle of all my land like a donut hole which was finally abandoned. I was told "as a one-time courtesy" this could be done. Really, guys? You should be offering us these ridicularities unilaterally and turning over land to be tiered by us, not you. THE RAIL NETWORK DOES NOT IMPROVE CONDITIONS FOR NEIGHBORING LANDLORDS. Do you own land? How much? Is it next to a railroad or road or waterway? Where? If you did, on any significant number of sims, you would rapidly find that it does not help your value, but devalues your land due to unmanned vehicles and griefing hobos -- which is really a problem BTW. Having owned land by RRs and supported them for 12 years (have you?), I can tell you that you lose money and tenants from this "fun," not the opposite. The way to win new tier-payers is to develop a universal policy, consistently applied, about selling on the auction, selling on demand, and offering to sell. But instead, the Lindens don't do this and prefer this patchwork and exasperation. Tomorrow, should they wish, the Lindens could PUT BACK the programmed function that made abandoned land INSTANTLY go to sale for $1/meter, in 16 squares, even. Yes, that lovely feature was what created the ad farm 16 m menace, but in today's setting, where the Lindens are willing to prosecute ad extortion, and where $1/m is not what a bot will eat let alone an intelligent human being, it would be a huge help to moving this land off their dime to ours. But they aren't interested in doing this for all kinds of reason. Your touching belief that railroads help to "do something" about this problem is placed. Look at the map. Even with a zillion railroads, you could never reach all the abandoned land stretches.

Er, "standing in the WAY of WARR"? You mean, enjoying the right to private property which actuallly Linden Lab more or less guarantees. What is WARR, that we must make way for it? An abandoned project whose owner could not tier it. Now he/his alts/his friends/Linden fanboyz want the Lindens to tier it and want everyone to get out of its way. There isn't any rationale for this.

My ideas are represented in my rentals communities, you can see them aplenty there. I also make land available for other people to express their ideas, which is more than you can say for yourself. I tier a resident-owned railroad across some four sims in Sutherland (I used to support even more of it but other partners backed out and we found IT WAS NOT USED such as to justify the tier. But still, I go on tiering at least that much so that people can at least go across some pretty sims with some nice sites around Sutherland. I also have parks along the existing SLRR and make free trains available. I don't sponsor hobos, I sponsor the general riding public in this way. I find these parks don't get much use (except the one in Sutherland) so I discontinued a few others I have. But I keep land in a few places that has been rented in the past by rail enthusiasts and they have built trains or stations there. All of this is more than you have ever done in your Second Life. I am not required to make available land for your fantasies that THE LINDENS THEMSELVES SOLD, mistakenly or otherwise, to a land flipper on THEIR AUCTION which I had to buy to SAVE THE VIEW for multiple tenants and neighbours.

And why shouldn't it be difficult, Qie! Good Lord, this is PRIVATE PROPERTY which the LINDENS SOLD!!! Hello! The Lindens made their own SLRR by planning it through sims they own and planned. Why not ask them to upgrade it or change it to fancier tracks or whatever you need instead of building NEW spurs on land that a private owner ABANDONED! None of you pay the tier. In fact, you have your prims all over land that other people own including Governor Linden. I totally get it that it's fun playing railroad, but this is not RL and it is not a necessity. None of you do a thing about the unmanned vehicles and in fact some of you are guilty of them.

Why don't YOU move to an island and build your railroad there? Oh, that would cost money and in your hobo way of life, you don't have that. You want other people to tier your game. I see. Oh, and you want a place where everyone can see your fabulous project across many sims and gratify your ego. I see. Well, I'm not here to help tier the view for your ego. There is nothing VITAL about the WARR. IT'S OWNER ABANDONED IT, THAT'S HOW VITAL IT IS. All that's happening now is that he/his alts/his claque are hammering on the Lindens to rebuild it. No railroad is needed in a virtual world. Goods do not need to be transported; they magically come out of your hand or from the MP. No one "needs" to be transported. They can fly. Railroads exist merely to gratify the egos of their builders, to sell content, and for rides by a tiny, tiny portion of the population.

This is a lie, as you've done it twice now, I have the records, you also did it in Tuliptree. Short memory. None of us who own property in Grote have asked for this train station and WE LIVE HERE. YOU DON'T. You don't even own property, most of you, and what you do own you turn into hobo camps that soon fester with script eaters and griefers. Copying chat and distributing it inworld is against the TOS. You've had multiple reports filed on yourself and your alts, get a life.

When you can't get your way by reason, you use threats and disparagement of people's reputation, right? Despicable. Of course it's your fault as you and your alts belong to a little claque of noise-makers on the forum demanding that the Lindens put back something that A RESIDENT abandoned. And for all we know, among you are his alts, agitating to get the Lindens to tier and maintain what he couldn't manage to. But there are plenty of train tracks ALREADY I don't wish to have "a little strip of my land" used for a railroad at the top of my properties through what is now a park, destroying the view, full stop. And PS, none of my neighbors who own property along that route want a railroad either, hello. That's because we LIVE HERE and don't just "ride through" here. Most of the activity on these RRs is UNMANNED VEHICLES sent over them due to the vast geeky egos of your little friends. These UVs stall, lag sims (indeed they do, so don't start in with fake discussions about low-lag scripts), and then sometimes crash and pile up. They don't fit in theme, so that jets go along the railroad, or buses or boats, like their trains go on the water. It's a constant, steady annoyance all day long. No one needs a "ride" from these nuisances because at train stations, including one near a resident railroad I support, and another near the SLRR which I support, can use free trains there. Or buy them from you and your little friends, which is what this is all about. I don't need anyone to "plan things" for MY land like "little strips". There isn't any "rage" here. There is a firm, persistent pushback to "your plans" for MY land. What's particularly despicable is renting land, then badgering the owner to sell it. You've done this twice now. You've now been abuse reported multiple times for your threats on alts as well.

Yes, Chin. It's going to be tricky. Because MY LAND and MY NEIGHBOURS' LAND is "in the way". Which is why this half-a$$ed project should not have been started because a few forums' idly thought it would be "fun". I thought you understood the value of property more.

Would you stop idly making plans for OTHER PEOPLE'S SIMS? Ask them to put the railroad through YOUR rentals, please. We already had "above the road." It was a hideous blight on the view and the builder refused to move it despite me giving/renting him land on Slosser for another branch of his RR. Awful. I can't find a picture of it now, but it was damned stupid. How many of you in this thread own more than 512 or 4096 of land? Raise your hand. How many of you *support railroads actually on your land*, raise your hand.

Enough room if my land is seized, right. You're just incredible.

Yeah, that's our sim. We were not asked about this.

This map lets me know just how out of touch with reality you are -- and just how abusive you are of other people who OWN LAND in the way of your dreams. You would outrageously route a railroad over a corner of a pond "just because it needs to come through". Though people live here, they own land here, and they enjoy the pond and activities and don't need a railroad in their face. Outrageous, this planning for big socialist Soviet-style projects with other people's land. Your "former WARR" route is completely wrong. It never went on that route -- and no train ever should go on that route. It hugged the road and went along the roadside and did not come down near the pond -- it had the huge highrise above the pond on one parcel. Linden Lab SOLD this land and it is now MY LAND. Other parcels are now OTHER PEOPLE's LAND. Your plan is to reduce the size of the already-narrow cobblestone road. But real people in cars and on horses uses this road. Why should they no longer fit their vehicles? I have three tenants in Grote, one with an RV and two with cars that like to drive along this road. What, now they can't fit? I see Michael Linden -- at the screeching behest of forums-dwellers -- decided to start this project right in my face. I am drawing my own conclusions from that.

Because it's not a public service? The public did not ask for it. A few train fans did. This idea that there is this vast public that loves railroads is all out of touch with reality. Or that there people just bursting to buy land next to railroads. o The Mainland is a fraction of SL -- there are something like 5,000 user sims and 5,000 Governor Mainland sims, whereas there are some 25,000 private islands o The main use of the railroads is by these unmanned vehicles. They are a HUGE nuisance to landowners. They blight the view, lag the sim, and pile up in crashes. You need to drop your notions of playing railroad here with other people's land and views. Buy some private islands and build them there.

Baloney. That's your subjective opinion. Pros: o a tiny cabal of Linden fanboyz and rail fanboyz who don't own land get to take over the Mainland via rail o some railroad content makers get to profit o a very, very few ordinary residents who enjoy trains get to ride now and then (which they can ALREADY do on the SLRR and other resident rails -- I own the land under one of those resident rails). Cons: o Yet another railroad blights the view o Property values are reduced o Unmanned vehicles increase and lag sims and crash up in piles o These unmanned vehicles also blight the view especially because they are out of context, i.e. boats on the railroad, jets on the road, cars on the water. This habit of a very few deciding what "the public interest" is in Second Life merely because they rule the forums or have the ear of the Lindens is a very, very old story in Second Life. But the people who own land and pay tier and pay the Lindens' bills should be consulted, not the hobo yakkers on the forums.

"Re-routing it somewhere else" means building an ugly high-rise bridge. I've explained this to you now 4 times and you're still not getting it and think I'm the problem. There are a lot of other people on these sims besides me.

Who is it that "needs" the WARR? Who do you represent? How many of you are there? What land do you own? Is this the usual thing in SL where a bunch of hobos with time on their hands and the ear of the Lindens get what they want? Are there content-seller interests here? What's up?

No. It's not "inarguable". The Lindens SOLD BIG CHUNKS OF IT, which is the BIGGEST argument against it. Railroads are not used as much as roads. Not by a long shot. There is a lot of romanticism and big content creator ego attached to railroads in SL, but the reality is -- as someone who has long own properties at multiple railroad locations -- only unmanned vehicles use them for the most part. Not real people. I myself occasionally ride them and find no one; and while I have a free train available at one location, people use it on a resident-built railroad there, not on the SLRR near a parcel I have at another location. Funny, that. The scourge of Second Life routes is now gone, but there are still lesser scourges who keep sending unmanned vehicles on roads and rails, heedless of whether the vehicle even "fits" the route they are on, i.e. buses go on the water, boats go on the rails. It's hugely annoying and drives away REAL usage. The Lindens need to eliminate this completely.

Who are you to make plans for the view of other people's land? The Lindens generally make good builds that don't blight the view. The same can't be said for residents.

My thoughts are this: I'm a big fan of railroads and have always supported them but some of them are ugly and destroy property value, then I don't support them. I supported the WARR, sold land to its builders, rented land to them so that they could have thoroughfare, and for my trouble, they built this hugely ugly high-rise rail by the pond on Grote, obliterating the view of the skyline and pond for years. There was no reason for this except "just because". For the sake of giving a fleeting view of a nice pond to the once-a-week passengers, we had to have our view ruined forever 24/7. Then WARR abandoned his land due to RL issues and Linden seized it. Except then LL sold the chunk of it that was in Juanita. It went up on the auction to our horror, and someone bought it and flipped it, so that I had to pay a major price to "buy back my view" again, which had been relieved of WARR at least for some time. Then, the Lindens refused to sell the land in Grote adjacent to this land in Juanita, and just left it fallow. I asked now and then if they changed their mind, and asked what the plan was to now link up WARR, should they revive it. Now all of a sudden I learn accidentally not from the Lindens but from a short-lived and belligerent tenant and Linden fanboy who first rented my land, then asked if I would sell it for the railroad station then refunded in fury when I said I wasn't happy with WARR and they didn't seem to grasp that this was *my land* they were making plans for. I do wonder what the plan is, and I've written to Michael Linden. Hopefully it will be kept low. But what, I'm supposed to give up a park I've had now for a year for which I paid a bundle?  Michael could narrow the already-narrow cobblestone road and build along the shoulder, or make some sort of ugly highrise bridge agagin to cross over to abandoned land that could be used. Frankly, if I have to chose between an ugly high-rise bridge again and ceding my land by swapping it for equivalent abandoned land, that might work, but then I'd want to be left with a chunk for my overlook park. Even if they solve the problem with my land, they'll have to deal with the person who bought land they ALSO sold in Sikkima -- or build another ugly high rise again.

Because they have another priority, which is making a new world called Sansar. Google it if you haven't followed it.

That route is being pursued but since they are unlikely to tell, I'm asking the general public if they know.

I agree. I sometimes have people who grief me this way by sending me their own cheap products which is a loss for them if I then sell them. Stupid. And there does not seem to be away to block sends like this. There used to be a way to control automatic receipt of items but it seems to be gone from the menu as a choice now.