Phil Deakins

I actually think that LL may move in the direction of more V1-like aspects. I'll explain... When they created the V2, it was a disaster. Almost everyone hated it with a passion, although a few - a very few - liked it. The V3 is different though. It does away with the big ugly black thing on the right of the screen, and gets back to a near minimal cluttering of the viewing area. Some previously simple things are more awkward so it does have plenty of faults but I, as a V2 hater, use it with my main av for choice. I also use Singularity with my alt for some things that the V3 is very bad at - profiles, for instance (web-based profiles are an epic fail). So the LL viewer has already moved from the disaster that was the V2 towards the V1, and they may make further steps in that direction without ever becoming a V1 lookalike. But for a pure V1 interface, Singularity is the best I've seen. I believe it has all the advances that any TPV has and it really does look and behave like the V1. So much so that, when I tried its V1 skin, I no longer liked it, and I use a different skin. ETA: Somebody shouting like hell in this thread just reminded me of something in a book that I once read. It was a book of humorous things that happened with vicars and such. After one vicar had delivered his sermon from the pulpit, and the service had ended, someone found his sermon notes still in the pulpit. At one point in the notes it read, "Shout for all you're worth. Argument very weak!".

Sassy Romano wrote: Yes that may be so but then that's a seriously hopeless home router because a router that is typically to handle a family at a current typical bandwidth should be able to handle a good number of open connections. Otherwise the suggestion is that only one family member could be using an application such as Second Life at any one time. My point was that to suggest that two viewers is "OVERLOADING" as an opening statement is probably the least of the issues. (Probably). Further, it's not the home router that's at fault here then, it's the design and implementation of a process that leads to fail. Thus, Phil's statement that mesh doesn't work, is wholly justified by the poor implementation of the protocol handling chosen by LL. What we need then is for Phil to repeat his test with his router in modem mode and that will rule out his router... It wasn't a test so it can't be repeated. I posted at the very time that I saw it (2 customers) in my store.

Theresa Tennyson wrote: The reason I seem to be attacking Melita is because of the beginning of this thread: MELITA WANTED THE ONE THING SHE CAN'T HAVE. She can have the V1 interface if she uses a third party viewer. She can use a Linden Lab viewer if she gets used to the new interface. I've given her advice as to how to do either of those. But she CAN'T HAVE AN UPDATED LINDEN LAB VIEWER WITH THE V1 INTERFACE, which is what she was asking for. There's no way that's going to happen. That should have become clear over the past three years. So she needs to do one of two different things. She needs to make a decision which she apparently has made no preparation for despite being given ample notice of this. THAT'S why I'm exasperated with her. I'll help all I can with whatever decision she makes. BUT SHE HAS TO MAKE THAT DECISION. Melita, I apologize for speaking behind your back in this post. I will now answer your initial question. THE CHANCES ARE ZERO. There is absolutely no need to be as rude as you have been to Melita (you still owe her a big apology for your rudeness to her), and absolutely no need to shout like hell. Any reasoning that you post is ignored solely because you have a habit of being rude and now of shouting like hell. You really ought to learn how to communicate in a way that people will take notice of what you say

That's right, Coby. I was forgetting about that. I don't think that Melita would have a use for materials though.

Marigold Devin wrote: As for trusting TPVs; LL trust them enough to have the developers of same helping them with their own Second Life official viewer, which means you can trust them as much as you can trust the employees of Linden Lab (and the big question here is, how much do we trust the employees of Linden Lab (no answers required, only in your own head). In a way, you are right, and, in a way, you are not - imo, of course LL, the company, is on a par with bigger internet companies as far as trusting their programmes to run on our computers is concerned. On the other hand, the small groups of unknown people who produce the TPVs are nowhere near on a par with them. You only mentioned the LL employees though, but, if you trust a company, you are really trusting the employees. The fact that LL and one or more TPVs confer over some things really doesn't add anything to the TPV's trustworthiness. If LL had been conferring with the Emerald team over things to do with the viewer, it wouldn't have made any difference to what happened. Even the Emerald team didn't know what was happening, and it took one of them to smell a possible rat and investigate. LL wouldn't have known about it even if they were conferring. All in all, I'd much rather put my trust in a company like LL, whose employees risk their jobs if they are discovered doing something underhanded, than in a group of unknown hobbyists like the TPV producers. Having said that, whilst I know it isn't risk-free, in recent times I've been accepting the risk by using a few of the more popular TPVs. The first one was the one produced by the guy who discovered what was happening with Emerald (I forgot its name). Then I used Phoenix, then briefly FireStorm, both in spite of the fact that they are produced by some of the people who produced Emerald, and now Singularity. All of them as secondary to my use of the LL viewer.

Theresa Tennyson wrote: That first post was my practical comment. This is my editoral comment: A few years ago broadcast television changed from analog to digital. A retired schoolteacher from New York put up a guest editorial in the New York Times basically whining, as she was one of the handful of people in the US who didn't have cable TV and she apparently couldn't be jazzed to do enough research to figure out how to get and install a converter box, which were widely available and even had their >$40 cost subsidized by government coupons. She was confused and wondering why she had to change even though this was a known situation for months - years, really. At the time, I was also not on cable, just got a converter box for my antenna TV, and was watching TV reception that was much better than it was before. I was thinking - this editorial writer also seemed like she'd be the sort of person who'd say "Young people are so lazy and have no initiative these days." Seemed like those traits weren't exactly confined to the young.... That's incredibly rude, and it's based on such a huge lack of understanding that it's hard to believe it was written by a sensible person. Your fundamental error was that you assumed that Melita wants a return to a previous viewer, when all she wants is a previous UI. I.e. all the advances but with an earlier interface. Perhaps you can now see how totally wrong you were, and perhaps you might even realise how very rude you were and offer Melita an apology. Like a great many people, Melita would be very happy with the Singularity V1-style viewer, which incorporates all the current advances, if she would use a TPV. She is not alone. Posts in this forum show that a huge number of people prefer a V1-style interface, and not one of them is desirous of a V1-style viewer without all the advances, and that includes Melita. @Melita. You mentioned security as being the reason for not using a TPV but, by 'security, you mentioned LL not dealing with bugs/faults if you are using a TPV. LL won't deal with faults that pertain to viewers when it's a TVP. E.g. is things don't rez as they should, and you're using a TPV, don't go to LL about it because they won't handle it - and rightly so. But if there's something wrong with a sim, for instance, then LL will deal with it. The viewer doesn't come into it. The other type of security that you may also have had in mind, is that of not trusting unknown people's programmes to run in our computers. That's a genuine consideration, and it was the reason why I wouldn't use TPVs for years. What happened with the very popular Emerald viewer vindicated the lack of trust in unknown people's programmes. There's no way round that. As individuals, we either take the risk (and it is a risk) or we don't. Nobody can say TPVs are safe, as the Emerald experience shows, and nobody can say that any particular viewer is safe, so it's up to each individual to decide for him/herself.

Thank you all for your posts in this thread. Apart from the odd nay-sayer, the posts in this thread show that it was a waste of time starting it because it's so well-known that mesh doesn't work properly - at least in the area that I wrote about - clothes.

Perrie Juran wrote: Czari Zenovka wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: Tex Monday wrote: ETA: That I'd like to apply for a job as your quality control assistant, if it's available.... I'll need to see how intensive the work is before I decide whether or not to take on staff Every executive needs a secretary/personal assistant - my qualifications: *I'm a redhead *Excellent typing skills *I'm a redhead *Organized and efficient *I'm a redhead *Not great at making coffee but can brew stellar tea Did I mention I'm a redhead? I'd be careful before I'd hire Czari for this position Phil. She might deem many of the boobies not worthy of your attention before you ever got to see them and send the girls away. On the other hand, having Czari pre-screen them might save you from some nightmares. It's ok, Perrie. If I hired Czari, it would be as tea girl, which she claims to be qualified for, and not as a pre-evaluator.

There are no "violations". There are quality evaluations, that's all. Men don't come into - not even to conduct the examinations. Except me, of course, but I'm a world-renowned expert on the subject. I'm not your average Tom, Dick or Harry.

I didn't actually use the word "broken". I said that mesh doesn't work properly, and it doesn't. Perhaps turning down MeshMaxConcurrentRequests will work, but it should work properly with the default, which I'm using. If it doesn't, then it doesn't work properly. Using more than one viewer simultaneously is quite normal. If I'm not mistaken, there's an option in Prefs to allow it. So SL should work properly if I use two simultaneously. I would expect problems if I used a lot of viewers simultaneously but not problems like this. I'd expect more in the way of local problems. To my way of thinking, two viewers should not overpower the system. Incidentally, I'm not fussed about it. I just thought it was odd when I saw it. I don't need to do anything about it for myself.

Perrie Juran wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: At the recent meeting of the 'Forum Committee', I, Phil Deakins, was unanimously elected to the post of forum 'Jiggly Boob Examiner and Evaluator' (JBEE), starting immediately. Would all those who would like to have an examination and evaluation please contact me to arrange an appointment. Your first appointments have arrived. Under those fluff balls, I imagine it will be impossible to examine and evaluate the bounce. Please ask them to come back minus the fluff.

Madelaine McMasters wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: At the recent meeting of the 'Forum Committee', I, Phil Deakins, was unanimously elected to the post of forum 'Jiggly Boob Examiner and Evaluator' (JBEE), starting immediately. Would all those who would like to have an examination and evaluation please contact me to arrange an appointment. If you're content with only one jiggling boob, Snugs is probably available. Earlier today, I heard about that lol. It came up when a friend and I discovered perpetual motion - her boobs simply wouldn't stop bouncing even though she was standing perfectly still. It made me feel dizzy because my head was going up and down in sync.

Tex Monday wrote: ETA: That I'd like to apply for a job as your quality control assistant, if it's available.... I'll need to see how intensive the work is before I decide whether or not to take on staff

Theresa Tennyson wrote: So what you're saying is, WHILE YOU HAVE TWO VIEWERS RUNNING SIMULTANEOUSLY AT THE SAME TIME YOU ARE RUNNING A WEB BROWSER, ALL THE WHILE COMMUNICATING ACROSS THE FREAKING ATLANTIC OCEAN, "mesh doesn't work properly." What you're seeing are symptoms of mesh transfers timing out because of an overloaded connection. Which you have overloaded your OWN SELF. Listen to Qie You seem to be suggesting that I run one viewer and nothing else for mesh to work properly. If that's what's required, then mesh doesn't work properly - as I said

Ooo that sounds good, Venus. I could gather a *lot* of 'official' information there

I'm watching two people in my store right now. In Singularity, one of them, a girl, has her upper torso is tilted over at 90 deg, and also twisted at 90 deg. She has no feet and her hair is absolutely wrong. The male looks fine. In the LL viewer, the male has nothing from his waist down to his feet. His feet are visible though, and the female looks fine. Mesh in SL simply doesn't work properly.

I'm watching two people in my store right now. In Singularity, one of them, a girl, has her upper torso is tilted over at 90 deg, and also twisted at 90 deg. She has no feet and her hair is absolutely wrong. The male looks fine. In the LL viewer, the male has nothing from his waist down to his feet. His feet are visible though, and the female looks fine. Mesh in SL simply doesn't work properly.

That's alright, Sassy. Examinations and evaluations are not compulsory.

At the recent meeting of the 'Forum Committee', I, Phil Deakins, was unanimously elected to the post of forum 'Jiggly Boob Examiner and Evaluator' (JBEE), starting immediately. Would all those who would like to have an examination and evaluation please contact me to arrange an appointment.

At the recent meeting of the 'Forum Committee', I, Phil Deakins, was unanimously elected to the post of forum 'Jiggly Boob Examiner and Evaluator' (JBEE), starting immediately. Would all those who would like to have an examination and evaluation please contact me to arrange an appointment.

Alternatively, you may have pushed it off the side the viewer (if that's actually possible). If you have a HUD on the screen, right click it an click Edit. The scroll-wheel out. If it's off the side, it'll come into view and you can move it back onto the normal view of the screen.

I can't disagree with any of what you wrote, Perrie, and especially that part about CHUI, which is simply flawed. So flawed in one respect that I'm now thinking that I might ditch LL's viewer for my main avatar (this one). An example of the flaw that I'm thinking of, which really gets up my nose, is when I am in more than one IM. I am typing in one IM to someone, then the person in the other IM sends something and that IM immediately takes the focus so that I am suddenly typing in the wrong IM. Since I look at the keyboard when I'm typing, I don't know that it's happened until I've finished and probably sent the text to the wrong person. Sometimes, when several chats are on the go, I can't find space to type to one of them, because the focus keeps changing and I can't get a typed word in edgeways. It's utterly idiotic but then it's an LL product so such stupidity is not altogether unexpected.

Teagan Tobias wrote: I hate the tired statement that people left V2 because they had to learn to use it. That is just not correct for many people, me for one. It had nothing to do with learning to use it, V2 was just a disaster as far as a viewer goes. Learning to use it was not the problem, the problem was just how bad the viewer was. V3 is a lot better and I keep it up to date and do use it, and almost only it, with this avatar. I have to second that.

I've no doubt that it was, Dillon.

I also use the LL viewer for my main av, but I use Singularity for my alt because of 2 features. One is that is still uses the old profiles which, unlike the web-based profiles, actually load every time, and load quickly. The other is that it can get the UUID of an object from the Edit box. I make use of the latter sometimes. But, to answer your question, it's my opinion that many or most people who use 3rd party viewers do so to be different from the 'standard' - the standard being the LL viewer. Some use them for specific features, such as Restrained Life, but, imo, most people who use them have no particular use for their additional features, and they just use them to be non-standard. It's a sort of pride thing, imo.