Ashasekayi Ra

@Ishtara: Actually the attachment limit is still 256 prim units which doesn't correspond to PE. We asked about this in one of the mesh meetings. If you look at a mesh in the edit window, you will notice there is a prim count and a PE count. A mesh prim is one whole, indivisiable piece. So, if I upload mesh hair that is joined into a single model. It would be 1 mesh prim but its PE could be 10 (or whatever). Now, if I use SL to link a single mesh hair bow to that mesh hair, now I have 2 mesh prims and whatever the added PE of them is, which in this example could be 12 PE. @Leeza: There could be a number of reasons your 5000 triangle object is that high. You'd have to give a description of what it is. What's the scale? Did you use a custom low poly physics shape? If not, did you decompose the default physics shape? Did you use LODs? Did the LODS decrease by a factor of 4 (approx.)? Were there any regular prims linked to it? All these factors can dramatically change the PE. Edit: I just saw your post while I was typing. lol Yes, leaving all those LOD spots on none is a big no no. That means those 5000 triangles are left on for every LOD. That will make the PE sky rocket. Plus, you are forcing someone's viewer to render 5000 triangles they can't even really see from 256+ meters away.

If you use the "bone weights copy" script, I highly suggest that you do as I did in my video and duplicate the SL Avatar and then join it into one mesh with Ctrl+J. This makes that process go far smoother because all the vertex groups and weights are in one single mesh. Then, you don't have to worry about missing any needed weights no matter if you are doing a shirt or a pair of pants. Afterwards, you can add mFootLeft and mFootRight to be safe. These two groups do not need to have any weights or vertices assigned to it. (Now, if you followed the video on preparing the SL Avatar, these two missing vertex groups are added to the SL Avatar and will be transferred with the bone weights copy script also. That way you don't ever have to worry as long as you use your prepped file each time.) As for what bones you need, *IF* the SL uploader supported a partial list of bones, all you would need are the bones that actually affect your clothing items. For example, a shirt wouldn't need the bones in the lower body if partial lists worked all the time. However, the uploader goes back and forth. The viewer might support it one day, then it doesn't on the next viewer update. That is why I stated that you might as well always include the crucial 21 set of bones. That way you can't go wrong. Preparing the SL Avatar: The Skinning Process: 

That's weird. Maybe it is an OS issue. I'm on Windows 7 64-bit.

You can just add the empty vertex group without weights assigned, and it will work. And also, you have never needed the complete list of 26 bones for skin weights or joint position.

You surely don't want to make 256 PE attachments. I'd suggest that you focus on triangle count since there are already standards for triangle count in game art. Granted, you could play with those numbers a little since SL doesn't have normal maps which can give the illusion of more detail with less polygons. It will take a little time before the SL community starts making its own "PE" standard. Ok, so to throw out a practical example, I've been experimenting with rigged clothes. None of them have had a PE higher than 4. (Also, note that the PE for something rigged is higher than the same object not rigged.) I'd say that a good maximum triangle count for a single attachment is 4000 triangles.  And, that is a lot. Most items wouldn't need near that much. But, if you find yourself over that number, you really need to ask yourself is it really necessary. Consider that some games use 10,000 triangles for a whole character, clothing and all. (Some do have substantially higher of course. You can see the ranges in the article link below.) Here's a good page to read. At the bottom, you will see links to articles on typical game triangle counts. It will give you an idea of the acceptable ranges out there. http://wiki.polycount.com/PolygonCount

Did you include the 21 crucial bones? The uploader goes back and forth when it comes to recognizing a partial list. I just play it safe and include the list below: -- crucial list (21)-- mNeck mHead mChest mTorso mPelvis mCollarRight mCollarLeft mShoulderLeft mShoulderRight mElbowRight mElbowLeft mWristLeft mWristRight mHipRight mHipLeft mKneeRight mKneeLeft mAnkleRight mAnkleLeft mFootRight mFootLeft

Cheers for that script Nacy ^^ It is a tedious process. But, you only have to do it once at least. @Danial: Sorry, I don't use Maya. However, there is some general purpose information in the primers. Plus, Wix Daxter sells his plugin for Maya as well.

Thanks for the post Rage This Blender version works fine for me for both static and rigged mesh. So, it seems the SL uploader handles Collada 1.4.1 alright. I just did a test upload with Second Life 3.0.1 (238249) Aug 10 2011 16:31:14 (Project Viewer - Mesh) by the way. The only lingering problem I see is that textures won't upload with a rigged model automatically. Yet, this seems to happen with every Blender version and is a Blender exporter issue not SL upload problem.

Glad you liked them Nacy ^^ Thanks for bringing up the shape keys though. Some might prefer going that route.

I've successfully uploaded "non-rigged" mesh with the textures. Here's my workflow: Place the textures in the same folder with the .blend file Then, when applying them in the texture tab, make sure "relative path" is clicked in the image browse window. Save the .dae file to the same folder. You should be able to upload the .dae file and automatically bring in the textures. As a side note, this won't work for a rigged mesh because the .dae exporter in Blender leaves out part of the text dealing with textures when exporting a rigged mesh. The code between <visual scene></visual scene> is missing in the rigged version to be exact. However, you can just upload the textures separately and apply them manually.

Hi Nacy The method that you described would work if you are using the avatar.blend file since that file includes shape keys. However, if you use the Wiz Daxter plugin, the avatar doesn't import with shape keys at this time. So, I explained how to get rid of the morphs in a way that works independent of whether you use the plugin or the avatar.blend file.

+1 Vote for the jira I agree that the review system should be scraped since it is so ineffective. But, I think the changes in the jira would at least be helpful since I doubt the review system will ever go away.

@all: I'm glad you guys have found it helpful Thanks for watching. @Ron: You can export a rigged mesh from Blender 2.58.1. I have been exporting and uploading rigged mesh from it for awhile. That version has a patched collada exporter that also lets you "export only selected", which is a godsend. You do have to download this version from graphicall.org though.

I do agree that LL shouldn't allow merchants not to fill in certain indicators like PE. And speaking of PE, LL should make it clear that a mesh item needs to state the "PE" amount not "prim" amount on the product page. I've already seen a mesh product on the marketplace misrepresenting that number.

I finally finished this SL mesh clothing video series for Blender 2.49. When I started planning it, you couldn't export a rigged mesh from Blender 2.5x that would work in SL. However, now you can. :) So, I'll update the series soon for Blender 2.5x users. Second Life Rigged Clothing Series I. Obtain the Avatar Shape A. Method 1: Domino Marama's Avatar.blend File Topics Covered: 1. Import Avatar.blend 2. Download Custom SL Shape 3. Skin the Custom SL Shape B. Method 2: Wiz Daxter Plugin Topics Covered: 1. Download Your Avatar's XML File 2. Import Your Avatar's XML FileII. Prepare the AvatarIII. Skin the Clothing ItemIV. Avatar Alpha Texture Topics Covered: A. Making the Avatar Alpha Texture B. Finalizing the Texture in GIMP (Note: On-screen instructions are given for Photoshop users)V. Upload the Model to Second Life Primer 1: Vertex Groups and Weight PaintingTopics Covered:1. Vertex Groups2. Weight Paint Mode3. Adjustment Tools Primer 2: Armatures and ClothingTopics Covered:1. Armature Bones2. Weight Painting and Armatures3. Binding4. Tips for Better Skinning Series Playlist:http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL11D6E99BB51A2BB2

Well said Siddean and Arton. And thanks for that link Arton, more people should see it so they get a better understanding of how copyright actually works. (versus trademark and patents)

I'd have to say the issue is a catch 22. Having information without knowledge isn't helpful. If a listing states that it has a 1024 x 1024 texture, that doesn't automatically mean it is ineffiecient. It depends on what it is, the size of the item, etc. Sadly, it is too common in SL for people to have a little bit of information that spreads into misinformation and paranoia. So, if LL did decide to place more indicators on a product, they better couple it with real data that states if that resource is efficient within its specific category.

Medhue Simoni wrote: I think the problem is that people only think things are IP infringements. If you did not make the creation, then you can not know at all, for sure, that it is an infringement. Only the original creator can know for sure, which is why only they can report the item. Too many people are making assumptions that they have no business making. Well said Medhue.

Although LL asked people not to sell mesh while it is in beta, they haven't barred the activity. So, there are some people already selling mesh. But, I have only personally seen one mesh avatar on the marketplace.

Thanks for the information on GoB, Nacy. ^^ http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=127419 Well, sculpting in Zbrush is like butter. I have zero complaints there. It makes 3D work a dream. Yet, I find myself falling back to the traditional workflow because the retopo tools in Zbrush give me hives. But anyway, it looks like they may have added the Sculptris tech (dynamic tessellation) to the upgrade version. I'm pretty excited about that. I enjoyed playing around with Sculptris. Although, I think I would usually end up using the dynamic tessellation method more when I needed to do concept art versus a finished game model.

You still have to pay the normal fee for the textures no matter if you upload then separately or with the model.

Nacy Nightfire wrote: How does the "set smooth" button compare to the smoothing function of the SL mesh import screen? Does it matter which one uses? Well, they are two different animals yet related on the surface. Set smooth uses shading to give the appearance of a smoother surface based on the rotation of the vertex normals per face. However, the sub surf modifier makes the model appear smoother because of added geometry. You surely want to use set smooth when you need a smooth model. There are ways to use sub surf with low poly modeling but you have to understand how to remove the edge loops you don't need while still maintaining a decent shape. And well, it isn't the easiest thing to catch on to. But, once you do, it isn't that painful. It just takes some time. But seriously, when doing a game model, you definitely shouldn't just click sub surf and leave it when doing the final model. It will be much heavier than it needs to be,

@Viv: I totally agree. I love working with that same app combo myself. I'd also toss Xnormal in the mix. And yes, Blender GoZ would be nice. But, I don't find that I really ever need to go back and forth with that since I usually make my model and UV map it in Blender then go to Zbrush for high resolution sculpting/texturing. I've actually found the GoZ for Photoshop has been more helpful for me personally since I do go back and forth with some texture details. @guY: I don't like UV Master. It lacks fine tuned control. But really, don't get me started on the poor UV and retopo tools in Zbrush. I will cross my fingers and hope these areas will improve by Zbrush 5. I have high hopes for retopo since they've already shown some demo tech for it in the forums. *fingers crossed*

50, 000 vertices? That is extremely high. When making models for a game environment, you'll have to be more aggressive in balancing visual quality and low polys. If you place the edges in the proper places you can still get a "relatively" smooth shape without using too many triangles/vertices. For example, you wouldn't just click subsurf and keep going. You'd have to optimize that model, remove wasteful edge loops and tweak the shape. This process takes time to learn and would be near impossible to explain in a forum post. Jason Walsh has a great modeling training series that goes into how to build and optimize models. Just stop short of adding the final subsurf steps (for rendering) in his examples, and you'd be good to go. I *think* around chapter 8 he discusses optimizing, and he deals with an organic model in chapter 9. http://www.youtube.com/user/cannedmushrooms#g/c/2BA5BDF79FF50122 You may find this article on game art helpful as well: http://wiki.polycount.com/PolygonCount

I'm loving all the animals. ^^ Speaking of Zbrush, the new R2 update is coming out next month. They've posted an updated sneak peek: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=152654