FairreLilette

I see. I really did like the old windlights and especially the slider in quick prefs which gave so much uniqueness to the windlights. Plus, I can do a bazillion things in PS too that look like EEP anyways for 2D stuff. What I saw of EEP in the LL viewer was pretty and the clouds move but with my AMD I would not rave about it. I kind of thought EEP might have been better as an alternate for more advanced users rather than enforced as it's cutting out those with AMD, especially an older AMD like me that has no updates and is oddly made also due to old technology. I don't like laptaps because I need an ergonomic set-up with a large screen monitor where I need it for my vision and an old-fashioned full keyboard due to carpal tunnel syndrome. Yes, I know full kb's can be used as a peripheral with a laptop but if I need to move the laptop screen closer towards me so I can see it could move the peripheral keyboard right off the table. Desktops are easier to set up ergonomically and have a way better cooling unit and don't cost nearly as much as a laptop. I will need time to look for a card due to the scarcity for various reasons such as COVID and bitcoins.

Well, while I agree to some degree, I mostly disagree because trompe l'oeil is still employed with 2D textures by the greatest textures artists that are here in SL every day; just look at Nutmeg and their textures for one. Nutmeg has been said to be the best textures in SL and they are fantastic that is for sure and do employ trompe l'oeil techniques as do other greats in SL who are very well loved for their texture art. It is difficult to add shine in Photoshop though as I said, but some people are just darn good at it here in SL, so we have subjective experiences. I still think incremental shine, if possible, on a new viewer for the future would be a good idea, if that really is a plan going forward. However, overall I still like your post and found it enlightening. Yes, this can be a problem. And add, your pipe is gorgeous btw, I wanted to say, and the glass looks translucent in the first photo. EDIT: Adding a photo. I took the below photo and used a dawn windlight and I don't think the objects look "off" too much. Maybe you might see differently here though. In the below photo, I did NOT bump up by pixels in SL camera, this photo is with low pixels set as I was doing other kinds of photos and did not have time to bump up my pixels. If you click on the photo you can see it better.

I see, but I brought it up because of speculation in this thread of a possible new Vulcan viewer down the road, but a new Vulcan viewer is not happening now it's just in the talking about it as possible stage. Okay, thanks again. Most of my items from others though, and the stuff is really gorgeous, does not have speculars in them. I found two speculars after looking in loads of my own home decor which is very varied, and one specular was used because it's a tin and the other specular was used because it's a lamp - both those are considered metal and shiny but I don't see much shine coming off there personally. But, everything else, no specs in there. So, I did check and others can too as most furnishing are modify. Anyhow, all these no specular items I cannot in any way complain about the look I am getting. They look terrific. But, as we may go to EEP only and it can't be avoided, building may change on this but I even doubt then that my items would no longer look good from all the top creators in home decor I've bought stuff from in EEP. EEP on my AMD is just very murky. Whether a happy medium is achieved, I don't know yet but cards are scarce, I can't just get one at the drop of a hat. I need time to look into it. But, I'm fearing my AMD is just not going to go into the future here. I had no complaints with it pre EEP though and have enjoyed a tremendous amount of visuals here in SL. I bump my pixels way up in my camera area and that makes photos look like a high end GPU when it isn't. There was a thread recently about 'why aren't more items mod' and everyone said that it's a myth regarding copybotting and modify items. Thanks for the full explanation above.

I see and I will do that. Thanks. However, people should look at a lot of their items, many of the great textures artists here "paint" those dabs of highlight-looking shine directly onto the texture as well as that does look good. As far as wood, as you wrote above, some wood shines while the old weathered woods doesn't so much. As far as incrementing shine and full bright I was wondering if that could ever be done? I've always felt full bright could use increments. Other stuff, not related to your post - As far as thinking creators will go to modify of all their objects as someone mentioned in this thread, we could wish that but I wonder if we would ever get that? Creators with a name reputation claim they don't want others modifying their work as it could look ugly and give them a bad name, plus creators are worried about copybotters. Should we say that copybotters entirely do not exist in order to have more modify items available to us?

Normal maps are not baked in. Normal or bump maps work fabulous. Specular maps are only needed for shiny things and there aren't that many shiny things in life. What texture artists do here is something that was invented by the French a long time ago called trompe l'oeil. Trompe l'oeil is tricking the eye into seeing 3D on a 2D surface because as you know all textures are really 2D. The bump helps give the illusion of 3D on a 2D surface and that does not need to be baked in other than a texture having what can transform into higher and lower areas so it can look recessed in certain parts. With shabby textures or where there are cracks, this is how it works but those cracks or shabby parts do need to be layered into the texture itself. In short, there needs to be an area to "bump". With trompe l'oeil and shiny, this just doesn't work. What part needs to be shiny on an object and what part doesn't when making a texture? That is why putting bits of a trompe l'oeil (kind of fooling the eye) shine (mostly using white with shades of gray surrounding the white) on bits of a texture to mimic a real life shine in a certain area can work on textures but it is difficult to do. With the SL shine, there is just low, medium and high in the way it is created. The shine map is, I gather, attempting to override that low/medium/high via a map and give it an increment. I cannot get a lower than low shine with a map though, mine just seem to come out really shiny or none no matter what I set the map to, and I cannot be sure if this is an AMD problem or not. If shine as well as full bright could both be incremented that would be far, far better.

In the context in which I was speaking about customers thinking the photos are photoshopped has nothing to do with the materials lighting and everything to do with turning on one of the skin lights - Annan, Nam's or CalWL, as ALM was brought up that needed to be done for skins too which it doesn't to make the skin look different which leads customers to think it's shopped. Learning the skin windlights is far more important, except now for the high def heads and with a broken specular in the viewers is bad. I saw a photo yesterday on MP and it's not just my computer - her picture has it too. The avatars look like the photo was left out in the rain with streaks running down the avatars and the white completely blow out. She was selling a shiny dress so I guess she wanted to take the photo with the EEP specular and it looked horrid. I've never seen such a bad picture on SL before, so it is not just me. The shiny has never looked good in SL and most creators do not even use a spec map because, for one, it doesn't work and adds nothing. As far as shadows baked into textures, there is no other way for shadows. Yes, many are over-done to where it looks dirty but that can be toned down in photoshopped and lessened greatly, which a lot do. I was speaking about shiny being baked in as it's better than the map idea and the shine can be controlled in photoshop far better then with a broken map system.

Advanced and materials are used interchangeably. It's often called materials lightings by builders also. Can we drop it now because if this utter nonsense about nothing continues, I'm using the block. I've had enough. I had a relevant point about bad reviews and customers thinking the photos are photoshopped when they aren't, but you just don't get it and keep making posts about it. I would like to drop it. I do not use materials all the time either. You can try to figure out what lighting I mean when I say materials here because I've had enough.

I never brought in materials in my point about the fact that the photos are NOT photoshopped in the bad reviews, she did. And, with materials in the heads, I never noticed all these years and now it's making me wonder why. I just downloaded the old FS viewer without EEP, there isn't much difference in my skin from Annan Adored w/out materials to Annan Adored with materials. So, I never noticed any difference at all. There is a huge difference if one just changes to a skin windlight from Midday, however. As far as me never knowing there were materials makes me wonder, however, as there isn't much difference at all with materials on with Annan Adored Optimal Skin, No Shadow. Now I need the desk head-banging gif because I needed to get stuff done and there is just some ridiculous stuff in this thread. If you don't like it, block because I am ready to do the same.

I didn't know that. But, not everyone uses materials 100% of the time. I never did. I used lighting 1001 different ways - all kinds of ways for photographs. This is the thing here that some people don't realize is that one can get all kinds of cool lights without materials, and I kind of lean with Chic that things should be more baked into the texture itself - at least as much as possible. It takes awhile to learn how to bake these things in though. I'm fooling around with shine maps into the texture itself myself.

I thought you answered about my comment about the reviewers leaving bad reviews because the picture was photoshopped, which that isn't the problem - the problem is users not even knowing there are lightings to enhance their avatar in the viewer itself. These were not photoshopped photos but just avatars with CalWL probably on. Oh, thanks for clearing that up because I do need to go now and do stuff.

Oh, that's interesting. But, it doesn't have anything to do with my original post and point which is the skins receiving bad reviews on MP for not looking like the photo that shows on MP was that those photos are not photoshopped as the reviews say but the lighting exists already in the viewer which many don't know about nor know how to use. As far as bump and shiny on faces, it's quite far pronounced now with the new Catwa HDPro which many of us received for 1 linden, even eyes have it now. Plus, now eyebrows one can buy too. But, still those photos are not photoshopped was my point.

That wasn't my point. You don't have to view skins with advanced lighting on. Why would you need to view a head with no bump maps or shinies with materials on? You don't, and as a matter of fact, just changing to Annan Adored or Nam's or CalWL without materials on your older heads when trying on skins makes a vast difference in how a skin looks - a vast difference. Materials for heads is new. K, this is enough now.

No, I'm not talking about Advanced Lighting in and of itself. I'm talking about bump maps and speculars are now in the new HDPro heads. If there are bump maps and speculars in the old heads, I've never heard of that. There are even new specular eyebrows one can buy that I just saw the other day and I never saw those before. But, I'm not looking for a duel about it.

I had the reverse is what I'm saying. My lag was way, way less once in the cloud. Pre cloud, MID graphics setting, no ALM and still lag at busy events. In the cloud, HIGH graphics setting, ALM engaged and I'm zipping around lag-free in super busy areas like it's a completely new world. It feels a bit forced upon us to change and I'm not even sure I'm all that crazy about the high def stuff. Some of us really still like the older stuff (appliers even) just as much or better. I'm not sure I want a shiny face. I kind of like matte better. Well, it is what it is. I will change to the old ways/viewers for now. At least that's available as I've heard with bitcoin mania, cards are scarce or expensive or something? And, I do thank you for all your help in understanding all this. I was mainly wondering why LL okay, FS can't even get a good look in regular lighting, forget materials here even with FS...I mean just regular lighting I cannot get a good look now with new viewer but LL is not so bad. It's a mystery here.

Wow, is that why I seem to have difficulty getting the update to work? I also read some AMD drivers do not need to update unless it is for a specific game on the AMD site. However, above you say you cannot run materials or have to have it disabled while I have not had to do that except in busy regions but that all went away with the cloud. With the cloud I was running on high and materials in super busy events and I wrote that in several posts on the forum.

Yep, this is true. The materials in LL is maybe two points better but not enough. I don't believe the photos I am speaking about on MP are advanced lighting at all because as far as faces, there haven't been advanced lightings until recently. And, now with the free Catwa HDPro, there is a big interest now, I am sure. But, no, these were and are just photos with Annan Adored and CalWL windlight which makes a huge difference in how one's skin and avatar look compared to just MIDDAY, and all these reviews were pre free HDPro head. Shapes get this 'oh it's photoshopped but your avatar will look nothing like the photo' too kinds of reviews because shapes are selling the whole look with a style card, skin included in the look and I know it's just a simple windlight setting and not shopped. Maybe with EEP, an EEP lighting can now be included with a demo.

I know you said there is a viewer I can use other than EEP that is not blocked now but many are saying that the change cannot be avoided or it appears that way anyhow...it will go to EEP only sooner or later...? I dunno. I appreciate you finding out there is a viewer that is not blocked. I wanted to discuss somethings about EEP and lighting because there is a problem with reviews on MP giving one star for some shapes and skins and the review saying something along the lines of 'don't buy this product, the picture you see on MP was photoshopped and your skin or shape won't look anything like that'. That is not a good thing for creators but I see it a lot. Now, what do you think is going on with those reviews saying that photo is photoshopped? The deal is it's not photoshopped it's a windlight photo, probably Annan Adored or CalWL and many users in SL don't even know how to turn a windlight on to view their skin. They think all the "pretty" photos are photoshopped, so I can see SL wanting to go towards EEP for that reason alone, although MIDDAY is still there and many will use it. It's not going to solve the problem of many users thinking all the pretty photos are photoshopped, imo.

Well, there is a lot of non-optimized content here too. However, this computer was built as a gift from a rl friend to me but I said I don't need a mega graphics card as SL is not a video game, so my friend went to the computer store where he was going to have someone build it and the computer builder looked up the specs here and built it, saying he knew about SL but I don't think he really did or maybe he knew about pre-mesh avatar SL. However, I did not have a problem until now with the EEP viewers both the one I downloaded in December and this one just very recently. However, much of the lag from the non-optimized content resolved for me with the cloud and it was great. Some people have hated the cloud though. Me, I had a good experience with it. EEP, I viewed it a bit on the LL viewer which is a bit better right now visually, but the chat and another issue is not good for me, but it's pretty although I got far better results just having a slider in quick prefs. I really loved that slider, made such gorgeous lightings. I've tried adjustments for EEP by clicking around the sun and moving clouds, etc...only seems to change the shadow area or dim but not give pretty results to me. Anyways, it's a change and it will take some getting used. But, I still with LL viewer looking pretty good and FS not, think I have a corrupted something going on here.

I don't remember the title...I believe I know the person's user name who started the thread and I could message the person and ask. The title was something like 'which lighting do you mostly use'. I meant the viewer before the two EEP viewers. This is getting ridiculous with you asking questions or debating everything little thing I say. I'm done with you. DONE period. I have a life to lead.

If it's random who wears or doesn't wear them though during cold/flu season, some businesses could think they are burglar. Some businesses may even then say no masks allowed or we will assume you are burglar. There were businesses that didn't like masks at first because of the fact it's hiding one's face like a burglar. However, as far as the article on masks may be part of the new normal...the wording was 'may'. It's not fully known yet.

About a year ago, there was a thread about which light people used most and it seemed at least 50% said MIDDAY. Now, I use MIDDAY for building but I use Annan Adored Optimal Skin for my skin but I never liked Nam's Optimal Skin and Prim as others do as it's too bright in my monitor and my monitor's brightness is set to fairly low. But, as far as windlights that's personal preference. I'm bringing it up because many people don't even know how to turn on Annan Adored or Nam's Optimal for a portrait photo, so why did LL think people, in general, would like EEP? EEP, to me, seems for a particular connoisseur not the average SL population. But, this is just my opinion of it. I thought the last viewer, the BOM viewer, was just gorgeous and fine with my AMD. I also know how to bump the pixels way up in my camera which the average SL does not and that makes a world of difference in one's photographs. People want to meet (visit) their significant other on SL or meet a SL other here. There is only a certain few who want to do amazing photographs and would even use EEP. But, also when windlight first came out, were there click on environment settings like there are now? Or, did that have to all be done with just changing incremental values until a good result was achieved?

All I can think of is the posters may have been mistaken hearing rumors of skullduggery and thinking it meant copy-botting. However, I only wanted to know what it was about but it never stopped me from using FS. I thought it was hyperbole, but it was curious how it was never refuted. Can I assume most others just don't want to take the time as it's nonsense? I did kind of assume that.

I was hoping that too, Chic. I prefer the FS windlight with the slider in the Quick Preferences. I could get much better lighting using the slider that was available in QP than I can with clicking around a sun which doesn't seem to make a pretty difference for me to like it for a photograph. It seems to just change the shadow location. However, has FS ever wanted two different viewers? It's a lot of ask, especially when it's volunteer.

Oh, it's buried here somewhere within thousands of threads. But, it's occurred more than once with no one every denying it and I always wondered why. Some accusations were not by one time forum posters either. I also assumed the possibility that others just didn't want to discuss it as it's not true or an old rumor not worth discussing. However, I did kind of expect others to refute it but no one did. I've been with FS off and on for about ten years so I did not assume it's truth but still wondered why it's been said and no one ever denied it. @Phil Deakins, FS has been referred to in some not so good lights but I never knew what it was all about and it never stopped me from being a FS user all these years. There are just too many of us on FS that it has it long, good-standing history with thousands upon thousands of users.

I was thinking more along the lines it may become law in certain states during cold/flu seasons for businesses; and may become like the 'no shirt, no shoes, no service' laws we have in California (this is mostly at beaches where people might be barefoot or the men shirtless as in swimming trunks only), as I heard masks will be part of the new normal. So, I was thinking perhaps a law.