Malanya

I don't know why people can't clearly understand the TOS and CS especially since they probably have read it to put that they can log your chat. It states clear as day that you Can't log chat and as I put in my own picks about that specific disclaimer people that state they can log your chat are nothing but drama seekers and IMO have had many run ins with other Residents and cause trouble, are in the middle of trouble all the time or seek out trouble. I found this out doing rentals for a year and a half all the drama and craziness that people seek out and the headache it causes rental businesses and even businesses in general when people whine about this and that, cheating and all the craziness that goes along with it. I specifically made that pick because trying to manage people that were surrounded by drama in their sl life and others trying to put you in the middle of their battles and personal issues with our tenants drove me crazy. Sorry I went off on a personal rant with that one but yes as Alicia put it simply it's a violation. Sorry for the rant.

OMG again your "helpful" reply. People do quite SL when they get a job, happens a lot, some people are even disabled and if they are able to go back to work SL is no longer such a social importance to them. There are many different life stories to users on here and I am not sure how you became the know it all on others backgrounds and lifestyles. I doubt you were tricked as the Post was not directed at you and who cares if she posted as her sister, if you knew her by her posts she did it for a reason that was not harmful to anyone. Seriously try reading and refrin from the reply button

Oh no need to be sorry, I just wanted to make sure the person you were replying to got your message because I knew it wasn't me

Probably so, but her first sentence was agreeing with me that you were a pretty girl and the message she posted was to me, so it can cause some confusion. Sometimes people accidentally respond to a poster they did not intend and sometimes people are not so clear in their repy, either way no harm done I was just clarifying because if you read the message it seems she was telling me and I as I said don't have any online albums of RL pics Good luck with your avatar, hope you can get great results whichever route you choose.

Loralinda wrote: She is cute as a button. In the past I chose a complete avatar from Razzanova which I compared to the pictures you have in your albumn. They somewhat approximate your face, better than other prefab faces, and are sure to be less expensive than custom made. The main difference I notice is that your eyes are set somewhat higher in your face than these avatar's faces and the lips may be a bit fuller. You can tinker around on them a bit. However, I wouldn't do it without first making a copy of the original so you can go back to that. Hi, I am not sure if you meant to reply to me, but I don't have any RL pictures in an album on here so maybe you meant to reply to someone else, unless you were generally speaking and used the word "you" not pertaining to anyone specific My reply was that many of us do try to make our avatars look as close to the way we do in RL but I just tweak the avatar I have with sliders I don't get heavy into a real match up, seems like a lot of work. The OP is the one who wants to be more exact to her avatar. Thanks for your reply.

Wow, how insulting to say. Believe it or not, some of us are happy with our RL selves and are not fat and flabby and all the other things you said, we actually like the way we look and make are avatars as close to how we look in RL, something wrong with that? As other posters mentioned, the OP is very pretty and I don't see where your comments came from reading her post.

I never said there was anything wrong with giving credit to a poster. I mentioned that because of some of the replies and you did say that others could learn from this one person, so it's going to give you diversity. I am not sure if I am convinced about your expected and desirable diversity. It sounds like when someone talks out of both sides of their mouth and started after another misunderstanding thread. Everyone contributes, no matter who they are, some are much more pleasant and patient and even helpful in certain eyes than others. I commend those who take the time to help especially when someone jumps in and says ""oh not this again" followed by a bunch of ridiculous lolcats pics and videos. I don't recall saying anything was a mystery either, you can read whatever you choose to into my posts, that's your decision. It's not anyone's imagination when another poster goes off on some as mentioned above. I am just thinking of the timing of this thread and it makes sense to me as to why this "kind" thread was created. Again good luck in your ventures eta: spelling

Fact is no matter what your opinion is the TOS states certain rules for any object with sex beds. When you made your remake to drake about how my reply was just another example of how people misunderstanding or missing the point of something. I am not sure how you don't understand YOUR complaint here has related issues that were discussed and if the TOS was followed the snapshot would not have taken place. As adults, as you say an OP should realize they are going to get many responses, even if they are not on the same page and agreeing with the same train of thought. you can have rules up and down, left and right, most will follow and as Dreden mentioned there is always someone looking to AR just to do it, and they will no matter how ridiculous it is. It should not matter to you how many landowners do not follow the TOS or group enrollment for specific things it should only be your actions that you are concerned about. I still have never seen a landgroup where you can just join. Also if you search you group in search it comes up right away, so not getting how it's so hard to find. There is no point discussing this. Good luck with your rentals, hope you bring your group up to LL rules and you have no further issues with unruley guests or tenants.

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: i actually read the whole thread first... the reply button on the left is supposed to reply to the OP... sometimes it doesnt work. understood, I take back my comment.

A successful rental business depends on how much and the way you advertise, word of mouth from giving superior customer service and offer things unique to renting at your land. When they pay the rent box (I can only speak for Hippo boxes) you get an IM that you have a renter. I would come on and send a group invite within a half hour or less I was able to because of my profession. Other rent boxes after you pay give you a group invite in local chat usually along with the rules the landowner has set. I have never seen a land group with open enrollment that I have come across, not saying they are not out there, I would think they are few and far between.

It is confusing, thus my comment about certain things in the TOS or CS being vague, people will read it how they perceive it when it is not clear and to the point. I have no idea why a land owner would want open enrollment just for rezzing rights alone, that just anyone could do it and it would be hard to dismiss the people that have joined if they are not renting or to see if they are a friend/partner/family of the renter. I would always suggest ejecting a person who no longer is renting from the group as it helps cut down on any possible future problems. As I stated I felt empathetic towards the OP as I know being a lnadlord has it's trials. I apparently didn't come across as I wanted to trying to point out what i thought was helpful. Renting 4 sims, land and sky lots with I can't count how many renters at a time taught me a lot.

LOL, ok I know no one is out to get me, but I also know how certain people post to others... see if you read the thread you would have asked the FIRST person that said what I did and they said it in more detail. This is how forums work, when someone has been posting a long time they post to NEWER posters differently as the do other forumites that have been here longer. Do I care? No, just an observation I thought made me smile. I think I will leave it at that and again, enjoy your day/evening!

Whatever you choose to believe. Whether it's a club or rental on M land hiding avatars applies if there are any objects with sex poses. Having done rentals for as long as I did on M land I am clear on the rules. You can put anything you want in the covenant and often it states rules LL has in place, it's not the same as adhereing to the rules LL puts out for this. I still find it odd that you replied to me and no one else that said the exact same things as I did. I have a good guess as to why. Have a nice day/evening

Staralien wrote: Communication on forums or in chat is the hardest way to communicate. Without facial expressions and body language, what we type can be mis-read. As for diversity, I embrace that as I think it takes all kinds of people to make up the world. But often, it is easier to see the bad in people rather than their good qualities. I thought it would be nice to post good things about people for a change rather than having a topic that can be misunderstood or give people a reason to be divided or excluded or to feel bad. But then, I suppose even this one can be mis-understood. :matte-motes-big-grin: I think you may be misunderstanding the replies..again. I bolded your quote, but your OP said this: Not sure if I can mention who it is by name...but if I can, then I will tell who it is. **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/html/assets/emoticons/mattemotes/big_grin.png" border="0" alt=":matte-motes-big-grin:" title="" /> Always kind and considerate and tries to help without ever being condescending. If everyone could be more like you, the forums...and the world would be a warm and welcoming place. I always appreciate seeing posts by this person as she truly comes off as a wonderful human being, and I have never seen her put anyone down, make fun of anyone, or be mean in any way. To me that seems like saying something about 1 person and how other people should learn from that poster, so that being said you are going to get a variety of answers. I am not seeing people being divided or feeling bad, I just opinions posted and that's what happens when you start a thread. You are right, many times people choose to see the bad in someone before the good, but I don't get that feeling from your thread, I thought it was a nice post.

Have you read the entire thread? There are posts that have links that explain what you need to follow on Mature and Adult rated land and privacy (including open enrollment for groups if Adult content is on M land) I am not going to post "snippets" I am not doing your legwork for reading the thread either so you can get your answers as the links have been posted already. I think saying "you can't have sex in your own home" is something you read... where on this thread? Have you been a land baron in SL before? When you are a landlord you have responsibility to LL and their rules and of course to your tenants. p.s why don't you ask the same question to the others that posted the same land rating and group info as I did

So true and dull it would be. Not everyone gets along. agrees likes the same things, sees the same situation in the same way, that is what makes forums a place of knowledge too. Yes, being patient and kind all the time would be a challenge, it's human nature to react

Perrie Juran wrote: Malanya wrote: No need to backtrack. I am not referring about the covenant rules or machimina. You can post anything you want outside of SL chat logs, you can't use snapshots and machimina to harass another resident by passing it around for whatever reason if it in any way causes the resident to feel privacy of their SL or RL has been affected. I am not even saying that an AR would be acted upon, no one has control over how LL decides what reports are serious for involvement. If you visit the site http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.phpyou will see that there is an umbrella for which harassment falls under, not just snapshots and Machimina area and it's not just referring to RL information. Maybe if you read between the lines you can see that the TOS and CS is vague and can be taken on an individual basis, that is in place that way for a reason. Harassment Given the myriad capabilities of Second Life, harassment can take many forms. Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment. Disclosure Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile -- is not allowed. Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited. 8.2 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal, harassing or violates any person's rights. (v) Post, display or transmit Content that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy; I don't see any vagueness there. The only vagueness I hear about is when people try to read into that things that it does not say. At best you might be able to fit it under "invades another persons privacy," but if the pricay settings were not enabled then it still was a public act. Yep and you have your idea of what it means and I have mine. Privacy enabled or not, harassing someone can be done anywhere. Thanks for your reply.

I think that text usually can't display the emotion of the poster, even when someone thinks words are harsh, most of us take the same written word differently, and that should be ok and not personal. We are all guilty of that at one time or another Everyone's input is helpful when we are open minded not just the "nicest person" that seems to post here. I think a lot of hostility comes when a poster gets replies they didn't like and sadly somethimes those replies are eye openers. Diversity is interesting IMO.

No need to backtrack. I am not referring about the covenant rules or machimina. You can post anything you want outside of SL chat logs, you can't use snapshots and machimina to harass another resident by passing it around for whatever reason if it in any way causes the resident to feel privacy of their SL or RL has been affected. I am not even saying that an AR would be acted upon, no one has control over how LL decides what reports are serious for involvement. If you visit the site http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.phpyou will see that there is an umbrella for which harassment falls under, not just snapshots and Machimina area and it's not just referring to RL information. Maybe if you read between the lines you can see that the TOS and CS is vague and can be taken on an individual basis, that is in place that way for a reason. Harassment Given the myriad capabilities of Second Life, harassment can take many forms. Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment. Disclosure Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile -- is not allowed. Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited. 8.2 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal, harassing or violates any person's rights. (v) Post, display or transmit Content that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy;

Staralien wrote: Drake this is a perfect example of people misunderstanding or missing the point of something. I said nothing about people having sex or using adult things. I said they had an intimate moment in a PG hot tub (I clarified it was PG in a later post and were cuddling, and should have initially) that was photographed by someone else because they broke my rule of not camming into other's apts, and then sent the photos onto a third party. What I needed to know is if this is against TOS, taking photos of avatars without their permision and sharing them with others. Clearly my definition of intamacy is different from other's. For me, if I am cuddling with someone, that is intamacy. Opening yourself up to another person completely and sharing who you are at your core being is intamacy to me. For others, it can only mean sex. I didn't ask how to make things more private for myself or for tenants. And yet folks had to tell me how to do that. It should not matter what rating the land has or if the group is opened or closed or how thick my walls are to answer my question: Did the woman go against TOS by taking the photos of people who did not know she took them and send them to someone else. (On a side note and what should be obvious, she did so in an effort to cause drama.) Since folks felt the need to know what rating the land was and how easy it is to join my group, which had nothing to do with the actual situation, I am now eqipped with knowledge I didn't know, so I suppose that is a blessing. Since I pay someone else other than LL for the land, and it is only part of the sim, I don't have the power to change the rating. I have checked numerous other rental places since this posting and have found most are on Moderate land, most have at least sex beds, and most have open group. What they are doing doesn't excuse myself from being in compliance, so to be in compliance, I will change the group so that people can only be invited to the group upon rental. The only adult items I provide in the rentals are adult beds (that are pretty tame compared to others) and now the new baths I recently installed. I don't advertise these things. Everything is "hidden" behind walls. I have made far more rules than most rental places to keep things as private as possible, minimize grieving, and make things as comfortable as possible for everyone. I have made a rule and posted signs of not having child avatars on the property in an effort to be in compliance with the rule of child avatars not being in proximaty of any adult items. Overall, I think I have managed to create a safe, peaceful, and comfortable environment. And I take care of my tenants. I resolved this whole issue by sending a warning notice to the guest that broke the rule and the tenant she was visiting. The tenant that was violated has been moved way up in the sky to get them as far away as possible from each other. I talked to both tenants and there is no animosity between them, and the guest at this time, appears to be complying. I knew that I would have to handle this situation for the most part myself. I just wanted to know that if the situation were to escalate and my solutions didn't work, were the actions by the guest a violation against TOS. To everyone that has replied to this thread: Thank you! Unfortuantely it's not up to you about what you feel is intimacy or not, it's up to LL and the TOS regarding what can and can't be done on Mature or Adult rated land. I think people were trying to be informative and the information was related to your OP. The woman DID go against the TOS for taking photos, but speaking for myself, the incident could not have happened if you had complied with the TOS for your rentals on your land. I empathize with your situation, I am sure it's hard to have apartments (not sure how they are stacked) and parcel off your tenants. I don't feel anyone missed the point of your question, they guest broke your rule and you broke the land rating rule, it all ties together. I sincerely hope your renters and guests follow your rules and you don't run into this again. spelling

Perrie Juran wrote: Staralien wrote: "..........this is a perfect example of people misunderstanding or missing the point of something." I don't think it was just a matter of people missing the point although we may have read Nudity/Sex into your original post. The point did get discussed as well as possible inter-related issues. So the topic got thorough coverage. In addition to this I still encounter a lot of rentals on "M" land that do not have privacy enabled. Personally, it is not an issue for me, nor do I consider it my job to police anyones compliance on this. I only bring it up as a matter of courtesy. I am constantly amazed at the number of Residents and even Land Lords who are still not aware of the Privacy settings and the corresponding rules. Also, there were very recent discussions about Nudity on "G" SIM's and Privacy in dressing rooms so the topic in general was still very fresh in my mind and posssibly others here. I like you don't try and police sims and find who who complies and who doesn't, I reponded to a post that asked an important question. Like you said this post had inter-related issues and it had to do with another renter being able to even cam in to take a picture of the person in th OP in question if it was an offense to AR. My response to another poster about the rating of the sim. Having done rentals I understand how the TOS would imply in this situation and it was important to know the land rating and if there were any sex poses on M land without hiding avatars on each parcel enabled. Point being the person that took the pictures and anyone else for that matter can AR the land group owner for open enrollment and not having privacy enabled where the sex poses are for each renter. There are too many people out there who just look for a reason to AR someone, even if it's an oversight. Your post summed up exactly what I tried to say in my response to the other poster but apparently I may not have come accross as well as you did.

Thank you Dillon Yes we can either choose to be responsible to read what we agree to or not as long as we realize any consequences from not abiding a rule was of our own fault and not cry about it lol.

Heart Brimmer wrote: Ariel Vuissent wrote: Be completely honest: Do you read the Terms of Service and other agreements, thoroughly and in their entirety, before you check the box that says you agree? For every website you go to that asks you to do so? Every time? And would you write a short answer essay for every single section before you could log on and use that website? Besides which, I think that in order for that idea to work, there would have to be someone on the other end reading all of those responses and choosing wht met the qualifications and who didn't - a time consuming process at the least. I don't think it is as easy as you make it sound to code something that would determine if you had used the correct words, without repeating more than a certain number of words, etc. before you could tick a box. I don't think that system is honestly workable. I think that anyone who does follow the rules would be penalized by this system, and those who don't follow the rules would find ways to get around that. The ToS exists to protect LL, so that when those things happen they can say "Well, we TOLD them not to do that." It's legal protection for them, primarily. I DO agree that we could use some provisions to help prevent griefers, though. I honestly don't know what would be a workable system, however, that wouldn't punish honest users. Emphasis mine. Yes I do read every TOS that pops up on ANY website that I visit, but I am in the legal field so it is habit for me to read legal things and IF more people would just read a little bit more, perhaps there wouldn't be such tantrums when they screw up and get banned. LOL. I do know that for the most part people just skim over things but honestly, I just think it's laziness on their part. What you don't read COULD get you in trouble. I wouldn't generalize all of us as being lazy that don't read everything on certain things again...that don't pertain to anything monetary, that's a poor generalization. Maybe you being in the legal field look at things differently. If I didn't have any money invested in SL and did something I skimmed over I would not complain if something happened to me unfavorable, as I stated in an earlier post, it would be MY fault and accept responsibility and move on. I would not take laziness and compare it to what some people may feel not pertinent to things that are used for leisure again with no investment. I do agree that your habit of reading everything is a very good one to have.

This is how it shows up on your PayPal invoice. I blacked out information that is personal, but I am sure you will get the idea if you have a PayPal account. Under the transaction details it still refers to Second Life as shown:

Your points were clear with your first post