Charlotte Bartlett
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Posts posted by Charlotte Bartlett
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Just now, arton Rotaru said:
C4D. IIRC, I think there used to be an issue with C4D and multi materials with SL. But that is from 10 years ago. So don't quote me on that.
HA you could be right - I can run a fbx out and see if I could do a different dae.
It's def C4D being a bad citizen..... First difference as I started to do line by line compare on the .dae files.
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Just now, arton Rotaru said:
Hard to tell. Obviously the material IDs got mixed up in the importer. I would try to re-assign the materials to the appropiate sets of polygons on the already joined meshes, and export again. Maybe the joining did something funky under the hood. I would also try to upload with the official viewer, just to rule out any issues the new Firestorm importer might have.
Thanks arton!
1. LL and Firestorm - same behaviour (so it's me not them ha).
2. I went in to each and re-assigned - same issue.
3. Next I will try Blender versus C4D to see if a software issue. -
Thanks Chic - I heard about that - to be honest with this chair commercially I could mirror high/med LOD from one then put in the Retopo on low and very low zero - it's "good enough" and you have to be I think a good 30M out for the LOD on LL Viewer and 50M out for Firestorm based on size to get the lowest on this model - (ignore screenshot above as that was just to demonstrate the faces issue between LODS. That would come in (with fully scripted version) at 2 LI and that's good "enough" for this example I think...
Come on new uploader whoo hoo ha
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Ok not a Firestorm item and thank you I appreciate the time to reply - but the above I am aware of
All LODs are using same amount of materials, same names. in same order on dae export. No LOD import has anything unique/changed bar the poly counts of course.
But per my screenshot when you switch between High to Medium to Low LOD the "faces" which said materials are applied to swap around so I get my cushion material applied to my wood frame etc. The High LOD is fine. I am not creating any separate materials per LOD - it's the same materials for ALL LODS.
I understand UV Maps in detail plus SL - but this particular face swapping is new to me
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I went off and made a dining chair - testing my new LOD knowledge to really push the boundaries of "details" versus "low prim" - from the forum experts - and spent a good 3 hours on retopo (ouch) for each LOD.
Anyway - super pleased with result. I got a one prim dining chair (not yet scripted). I am not going to lie - I can't just can't get the furniture to work with imposters so I zero'd the final LOD - so this only had 3 LOD models. Thats a challenge for another day for me as my fingers ache!
However, my next challenge! Material Switching between LODS. It's refactoring the faces!
My materials are named the same, in the same order in each dae and the mesh items are also called the same in each dae - in each file I use the same name and each materials is 1, 2, 3. There are joined in the exact same manner to upload with a couple of textures. Screenshots attached - any ideas why this happens? I was sure the new Firestorm put in a workaround for this issue....
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1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:
People have been offering photography services in SL for well over 15 years.
The problem here is, the photog is copyrighting the image not the building or one of Charlotte's already copyrighted houses. Which renders Charlotte's argument moot.
SL doesn't have photography (technically)- you are taking a screenshot of a 3d Model displayed in a virtual world (i.e. you are not out on the street taking a photograph using a camera of a physical building where you 100pct have copyright. Ha don't hate me just want to explain I see it differently based on concept of artist's copyright for digital assets they create.
I truly get what you are saying as honestly 99.9% of people aren't going to have any issue with this.The question here (in my mind haha!) is really related to if you take a screenshot of "SL" assets and create a RL derivative product "artwork on a mug" and sell that commercially. Do you need to have agreement from the asset owners for the subsequent commercial activity ? That's why the policy I quoted above does mention intellectual property and to obtain permission to use the content.... which confuses everybody as the rest of the policy as Rowan quoted gives a different impression.
I do have the right if somebody did not obtain my permission and it was one of my registered copyright assets, to seek damages for commercial RL projects that profit from my copyright.
For avoidance of doubt 99.99% of creators in SL, I am pretty sure aren't going to be "that person" (me included). My advice was just get permission if it was third party assets (the OP wanted to make their own and will be fine with that approach, as the rest of the policy covers them being able to take screenshots of their own work and do what they please!).
Perhaps it's a niche as also I suspect most of SL creators do not register their copyright in the US (they still have it, but registering it gives you ability to seek damages too).
12 hours ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:Also from the site: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Snapshot_and_machinima_policy
If the content that you capture is subject to any trademark, service mark, trade dress, publicity rights, or other intellectual property or proprietary rights, you must obtain the necessary licenses and permissions to use the content, and you use it at your own risk.“
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Also from the site: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Snapshot_and_machinima_policy
If the content that you capture is subject to any trademark, service mark, trade dress, publicity rights, or other intellectual property or proprietary rights, you must obtain the necessary licenses and permissions to use the content, and you use it at your own risk.“
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Four Yip back in the day I think sold art too I may be wrong. But the point remains if you are going to sell outside SL commercially, check with the creator and their policy. That way you will never have issues. I would think most creators would be cool with it, but there is always an exception.
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No you are fully correct snd it’s why mass confusion happens, as you will see reference to product policy. Product policy can differ between each creator. However if you used one (I hate using myself lol as an example as honestly I would just give them a copy of the house if they wanted to make something fun!) and commercially outside SL their TOS doesn’t supersede my outside of SL copyright. The above LL language does not grant a commercial license (it’s legal wording is also poor).
The extreme examples I used were to explain re models versus “RL houses”.
LL really need to revisit their policy above because more people would love to create things featuring SL and they could support this whilst offering things like extended licenses etc..
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I am going to use myself as an example here:
People sometimes get confused on this. If you took a picture of a house in SL (which is not a house, it is a 3d model) I made and externally sold it; you would fall into creating a distributed derivative work and you would breach my copyright.
It is effectively a screenshot of my copyright protected asset. The release I gave when uploaded SL doesn’t grant rights to you as a user beyond what the TOS states and I retain copyright.
I would have rights and additionally if my model was a US registered copyright item, I could also seek damages as well on top. The photography rules on region are not relevant in this case as I retain copyright to all my products outside SL too and you are transacting outside SL.
The Op specifically stated items they create versus third party (my example above) so:
If you personally created your own house in SL from scratch using prims or in Blender and hand painted your own textures and called it “British Palace”. In this example, your work was inspired by Buckingham Palace - a real life house - you could take images of that and sell with no issue. RL Buckingham Palace (architecture wise) isn’t copyrighted. Names etc / trademarks are not included in this example.
The confusion is people say you can’t copyright a chair …. True; however none of what you are screenshotting is a chair. It is a 3D model displayed within SL. That asset remains fully copyrighted by the creator unless released otherwise.
It can get more murky than this especially with wider examples eg what if I rezzed one of your houses elsewhere and made a film and sold the film etc…. There are a ton of user cases and each one would have unique differences.
Those are really extreme examples but hopefully give you an idea.
Perhaps the simple rule to follow is:
If you are selling outside SL and using assets you didn’t create, at minimum you should get a release in writing from the creator’s whose products are used. Simple to follow and covers you legally.
I know this isn’t what was asked but I saw some posts that actually would guide somebody else reading down the wrong road.
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You are all amazing - I am going through these.
Some of the theory I had, but having it clearly laid out is beyond helpful. The amount of effort you all put in to help a hobbyist like me is so kind and thank you!
I hope other people get to see this too as it's really gotten me on the right track! Thank you again!!!!!
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11 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:
Do you have examples of your own work and the LODs that are giving you trouble?
Are you sure your LI cost is caused by the LODs, or maybe the physics?
Also, what size is the object you're having trouble with? Different scale objects require different LOD budgets if you're going for LI.
I can put up a screenshot of the lowest LOD effort this week - it's is purely on the lowest LOD you can't get away with imposters for a sofa shape (that I can figure)
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Thank you all and I am thankful the experts came out!!
I am fine with retopo - my sofa literally couldn't be less polygons and I used all the tricks (I bake the high poly onto the low in Substance etc so my creases are material led versus polys etc). It's that final LOD low though - if I cheat and put in 0 - I am now at 5LI with the retopo versions and LODS above. If I try to make a few blocky cubes purely to fake a bit of a shape it goes back up. I want to balance commercial with being a good citizen but I have to say in this scenario I am VERY tempted to leave that as a zero purely as if you are outside the house (and indeed some distance away) you won't see the "collapse" at that lowest level.
The 5 LI will compete with the heavy mesh makers whilst keeping a least a level of integrity.
I went to the stores mentioned and can see LODs are in good shape but still seeing a few of them are using the zero out method on the last LOD on small furniture.
On that basket I cry hah because I LOVE IT. I know how well that creator sells (top 5-10 of sellers I suspect in SL H&G) and sometimes I just think like giving it up and chucking in a Z Brush model with that level of detail and a bare flick of retopo work. Because out of the top sellers bar a few of the olderbies and teams like Cory/her partner it is what "sells" and I mean really sells...I am going to put myself in the naughty corner for using a zero now.
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On 8/27/2021 at 12:42 PM, Elora Lunasea said:
Many of Charlotte Creative and Concept's builds don't have windows on every wall.
It's the one reason I wind up not using them since I rent on a private estate and have nice views all around. I like all that light coming in also.
Did you mean me @Elora Lunasea?
I just went back and checked my last 20 releases only 3 don't have windows on all 4 sides, I was going to post LOL that I need to do some builds with no windows on one side hah!-
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11 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:
Had to smile :D.
First off, never look at the folks making HEAVY mesh is you want to make "game asset" mesh. And of course don't BUY it :D. There is plenty of this kind of thing out there --- more and more rather than less and less unfortunately.
There are some folks that do a terrific job. I suggest going over to {what next} and look at her stuff. ALSO it is important to test at least LOD2 which is the FS default (linden viewer is even less).
I may get yelled at here, but depending on how the mesh is made (as in already low poly) it really IS OK to have a very very low triangle count for the lowest setting. The question is --- "is anyone going to SEE it at that low setting? If you can cam out on a table and see it half way across the sim at LOD2, that is certainly good enough -- for me anyway. So think about how each piece ACTS and not so much about the numbers. I have seen some of that "OMG that is SO LOVELY" mesh with ALL but the top LOD zeroed out. You can imagine. Painful.
There are plenty of things inworld that should never have been uploaded into SL. That basket is one of them. SIMPLIFY. If you start off simply enough you don't really have all the issues with the LODs. I have been making low LOD stuff for almost a decade ON PURPOSE and for those with less than hefty machines. Mine isn't the most gorgeous -- but it works and THAT was the plan. "I" can make super heavy render mesh with 2048 textures too, I just choose not to.
All that being said there are some folks who make impressive things with REASONABLE (not low poly) triangle counts and good LODs. I just bought a lovely and very arty jewelry tray that is impressively made. Parts of the necklaces disappear fairly soon but then again they would in real life (for me anyway LOL).
AND for your LODs you can add invisible placeholders (small cubes, edges and I did get a single vertices to work ONCE with no physics issues but never got that again - alas). So you are tricking the viewer into thinking that the object is bigger than it visually IS. This doesn't work for everything but can be handy for some things.
Hope you find a method that will work for you and your style. Good luck.
here is where I am struggling - to compete sales with Heavy Mesh.... you have to make things look like Heavy Mesh as a large % of consumer SL wants that look(sigh).
Good pointers I will pop to her store to take a look. The issue is not only am (I/we) competing with heavy mesh we are competing with the "it's only 3 LI" element too. -
Assuming they zero'd out the two lowest....
I still wonder how is still so low poly with the high being over 128K?
it's small - which plays a part. I reckon with the other parts it could be over 250K,,,
If I am on mid setting the basket was ok if in the same room (technically all you need for interior furniture)
If I zoomed out; it became a Tris collapse - but only once I zoomed out far enough (and if in a house in SL you wouldn't then see as it would be in a different room)...
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Hi I am hoping some of the experts here can give me some ideas!
I am making new furniture and working really hard on my LODs and efficiency.
I started to look at other furniture in SL to see what a comparable LI should be to give myself a comparison guide. .
I was struggling my own item which is a detailed sectional sofa that came out on the high to import once I retopo'd at 3800 Quads. I can get the Sofa to about 9 LI but still I am having to struggle with the Lowest setting / Imposters as even if I get to blocky cubes it pushes my sofa up to 14 LI. I am lost on how to get that lowest model to "work" within the parameters of SL without resorting to putting in "0".... How would you approach the lowest setting for sofa ??
I have attached a screenshot of a third party item (no names) who's items I love. What I am struggling with is the LI on their item is low but the complexity is so so high. Like this is more than my some of my houses! Also that is just the top of the basket and handles, not the bottom part of the basket or the cushions inside.....
Am I missing something on my LOD quest??
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24 minutes ago, Frigga Freidman said:
Hi, Charlotte- I appreciate hearing from you, and offer my apologies for what must have come across as a stinging comment. Not being a creator myself, it is perhaps too easy for me to criticize, but I assure you any criticisms are the result of disappointment rather than an intent to disparage.
To reiterate what I said in my original post, there are definitely enough items I liked included in the fatpack to make it well worth the $199 cost (and I loved the house!) I look forward to seeing your new stuff!
Hey no it's honestly fine and not stinging at all - I love the feedback! If we didn't see constructive stuff we would never improve! ❤️
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@Frigga FreidmanHello the shadows on the table are baked in but it comes with 3 textures so you can have it plain if you prefer
Sorry you thought the plant was a poor example - I do try but learn to improve all the time!! ❤️. That bundle was the last of my "older" stuff and from next week I only have new items PLUS I have since learnt a lot about LODS etc.
I try to keep things priced for those older items in the Fatpack at the lower price as a result.
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3 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:
If you're in for the more unexpected tropical living you could try headhunter.
My bed is in a ship wreck at the moment in SL.BTW, asking for a friend, are Ingrid's prefabs still a thing?
Buy Ingrid’s prefabs!
on a separate note to the OP
Do not want to break any rules but we have a ton of mesh beach houses including furniture fatpack. There may also be a 50pct sale off the full inworld store this weekend so you will pay around 499 for a beach house and 299 for a furniture fatpack . I really hope I don’t get a smacked wrist for posting!
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On 8/6/2021 at 9:58 AM, Cackle Amore said:
Having a way to directly connect a in-game vendor to my marketplace products would be wonderful, but as a optional feature of course.
They recently snuck in 'Bulk Redelivery" just this past week, so sounds like they might be catching up to that! @Charlotte Bartlett
I hope so as that is good news!! Thanks for the heads up
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This would be a non priority for us.
Marketplace would not be sufficiently (a) funded (b) maintained (c) fit for purpose to manage our redeliveries in this scale at this time.
There are many long outstanding requirements for a Marketplace 2.0 that creators have requested (jiras' all open) and LL confirmed they would not spend time on doing the Marketplace work until the "Cloud" project was finished. It kind of now is finished, but until LL clear the backlog and/or come up with Marketplace 2.0 -this would be a long queue to to dos. Most creators have the capability if they have volume of sales to use something like Caspervend or their own networked system if they don't want to respond to redelivery asks manually.
If there are creators who are not responding to your specific redelivery requests (check first they do want a notecard and not an IM) it's best to work with them directly. If they ignore you I would avoid that creator going forward.-
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43 minutes ago, Stephy Silvercloud said:
Thank You!
People acting like it's the end of SL. The SL world turned just fine before gachas became a thing. Guess what, it's going to turn just fine when they are gone. Some creators have already solved the problem. They've already taken out their gachas and set them out individually and sent out notices announcing it. It's okay everyone, the world will not end.
I agree.
I haven't seen a single creator post here saying the sky would fall. It seems a few people assigning assumptions / guesses to what "creators" will do from overprice things, to not create things. However, many creators I know have been planning around this for some time and already had a roadmap away from the Gacha model as a revenue stream. I am sure some haven't had that luxury but there is always support in the creator community and I know most of us just want SL to succeed and be here for years to come!
I have seen 3 creators here I know directly I did skim a bit apologies if I missed anybody - 1 asking questions (and I love her stuff!) and two H&G people, one being me on houses and the other Apple Fall (and he works SO hard on SL stuff so I loved his post as I know what effort and love he puts into his products).
Some creators may get it wrong after this, but we all learn and the successful creators adapt, adjust and move forward.
People will panic - change can cause that, but this is the way of life. I am happy to chat offline with any creators in DM/in world on how we transitioned and what we found worked/did not - help support anybody. There are so many tips and tricks like how you can quickly strip gacha scripts in one go and using a vendor to switch over in less than a few minutes per machine etc.
It's just a new phase, we'll figure it.-
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33 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:
I also have bought a fatpack of all the gacha items when it is available. The message I want to send content creators is that I would rather pay more for one individual item I want, rather than endlessly (and sometimes fruitlessly) play a gacha machine.
On a related note, I *did* finally go drop some Lindens at few of the gachas at my friend's gallery, and I am quite happy with the results! 🙂
I nearly fell out of my chair - is Cosmo Wenman presenting his scanned NEFERTITI bust on SL? There is such a cool story about how there was a 3 year fight with the museum over usage rights. He now makes it available so anybody can download so maybe it's a third party version. If you want to read about it - > https://reason.com/2019/11/13/a-german-museum-tried-to-hide-this-stunning-3d-scan-of-an-iconic-egyptian-artifact-today-you-can-see-it-for-the-first-time/
Do you have his creator name? I would love to take a look if he put his other items up from his SketchFab store just in case - I remember following this as it was a huge deal for 3d scans of items and getting them out to the public to use! ❤️-
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LODS / Material Switching
in Mesh
Posted
This was an updated one as I split into 6 materials to see if that was the issue.
However I found the issue C4D R19 .dae file is problematic and causing the wrong behaviour and mixing out the .dae file incorrectly.
So I ran the export into fbx, imported into Blender, exported as .dae and IT WORKED....
Honestly it's like a marathon with LODS lol but at least we have now established 10 years later the more newer versions of C4D are also not able to support LODS properly for SL!
Thanks for all the debugging help as always!! ❤️