Josh Susanto Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 If it's being destroyed, what's the rationale for allowing it to be destroyed?If it's not being destroyed, then who is getting it?If LL considers this to be none of your business when some of your money gets "lost", then are they going to refund it?When are they going to refund it?If they will not refund it, is it not reasonable to want to know where it went so you can try to get it back on your own?If they will neither refund it, nor cooperate with your efforts to determine where it went so you can try to recover it on your own, what is it reasonable to suspect is being done with the money, and by whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'm not sure, but a group of us have been looking in the seat cushions for a few months now: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4441 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 So LL hasn't even said yet whether or not the money was destroyed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super String Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I can tell you, I did DD purchases in Super Reality 12 times, and having been charged by Marketplace for 12 times. I paid to Marketplac, but Marketplace nevert pay it to my sotre. Who owns Marketplace who owns those $. That't the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 what I gathered was that a piece of their equipment did not work. and that we shall sit there with our figures while we wait for the equipment to get fixed. then perhaps we might get a refund. and this was after we contacted customer support, which is the usual route for a refund request...no? but it's been a while. that's the way I recall it. I could supply an analogy if it helps. I love analogies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super String Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I don't think they're not to refund in this situation. Customers' money missing leads to LL's bad credit, and bad credit leads to bankruptcy. This rule can be applied to every company. I don't want SL to die. I want they rebuild their credit as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 >what I gathered was that a piece of their equipment did not work. Or maybe it worked perfectly. If they have neither begun to refund anything nor stopped the equipment from continuing to take the money, what should we tend to think it was really designed to do? >and that we shall sit there with our figures while we wait for the equipment to get fixed. Why? Because where the money went (or why) somehow makes any kind of difference at all in the question of whether it is clearly owed to you, or by whom? If there's a 3rd party receiving the money, LL is causing or allowing that 3rd party to recieve it, so it's still LL's problem that you need to be refunded, even if they decide to go after that 3rd party for the "misplaced" money (which, trust me, they won't). >then perhaps we might get a refund. You can be pretty sure that that won't happen, for 2 reasons: #1) refunding it is tantamount to an admission that it should have been refunded immediately, and yet was not refunded (prompting the very fair question "why the f### not?"), and #2) if it's less than $5K US, you basically have about one year to take legal action about it once you're aware of the problem. If they can stall long enough, it becomes water under the bridge and you can basically suck it. >and this was after we contacted customer support, which is the usual route for a refund request...no? Well, according to Google Maps, there's windowless brick wall near you to which you can tell your troubles with about equal probability of getting any corrective action. OK, then... you analogy?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 >Customers' money missing leads to LL's bad credit, and bad credit leads to bankruptcy. That's actually not how this works, here. Any money in SL that has not been destroyed is essentially a debt to users. Destroying SL money reduces LL's debt to users, allowing them to keep more of the RL money that is paid in. But you do make an interesting point. Maybe users whose money has disappeared could hire a collection agency to get it back, since it is a debt that LL is effectively refusing to acknowledge, and would therefore also presumably refuse to pay unless some kind of more serious pressure were exerted upon them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Mickey Vandeverre wrote: I'm not sure, but a group of us have been looking in the seat cushions for a few months now: If you find the living room suite, especially the big leather chair I just loved, or the one-of-a-kind sculpture created by the artist for an event that I won, or my entire folder of Victorian attire, let's see, I'm sure there are more...anyway...if you see any of those that disappeared into the SL ether...please let me know. *grins* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super String Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Hi Josh, I should have changed it to--- Money missing will lead to a trust crisis, and trust crisis will lead to bank run (users going to sell & withdraw $L), and it will eventually turn to bankruptcy for a company/bank. If they don't inform users this payment issue, there'll be more and more merchants losing money...and SL will lose people's trust and fail. > Maybe users whose money has disappeared could hire a collection agency to get it back, since it is a debt that LL is effectively refusing to acknowledge, and would therefore also presumably refuse to pay unless some kind of more serious pressure were exerted upon them. Yes we can do that. And we can go to their company and protest to them, and we can sue LL collectively too. But, compared to users, I really think this system's bug is now causing much more risk and damage to LL's own reputation and credibility. The price they're paying for "missing money" is actually more expensive than any user's lost $L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 When I asked for my money to be sent, this was the response:- Hello Sassy Romano, Thank you for contacting Linden Lab Support! Customer Support is unable to issue manual refunds for content purchased through the Marketplace website.We are only able to assist with redelivery of products purchased from other residents through the Second Life Marketplace. All refunds for product purchases are done through the sellers, since the sellers are the ones who are paid for the sale of their products.It will be necessary for you to contact the seller directly inworld for assistance with receiving a refund for your purchase from them. Thank you for being a valued resident of Second Life! Have a great day! I responded appropriately and wished them a great day too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Collingwood Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Sassy Romano wrote: When I asked for my money to be sent, this was the response:- Hello Sassy Romano, Thank you for contacting Linden Lab Support! Customer Support is unable to issue manual refunds for content purchased through the Marketplace website.We are only able to assist with redelivery of products purchased from other residents through the Second Life Marketplace. All refunds for product purchases are done through the sellers, since the sellers are the ones who are paid for the sale of their products.It will be necessary for you to contact the seller directly inworld for assistance with receiving a refund for your purchase from them. Thank you for being a valued resident of Second Life! Have a great day! I responded appropriately and wished them a great day too! they have failed "reading comprehension" Good grief.. can anyone say Catch 22? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 >But, compared to users, I really think this system's bug is now causing much more risk and damage to LL's own reputation and credibility. The price they're paying for "missing money" is actually more expensive than any user's lost $L. Yes, and that's what I'm really even more upset about. I've already told them many, many times what step 1 would be to prevent their business from going down the drain, but it's clear that they do not listen. It's like a doctor telling a crackhead that he needs to stop smoking crack if he intends to live another 5 years. What he hears is "I want you to stop smoking crack because I hate you". LL need to straighten out and realize that I may just be their best friend in the world. But it's tough love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 > they have failed "reading comprehension" Good grief.. can anyone say Catch 22? Suggested reading: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/the-anosognosics-dilemma-1/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super String Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 > Yes, and that's what I'm really even more upset about. I've already told them many, many times what step 1 would be to prevent their business from going down the drain, but it's clear that they do not listen. It's like a doctor telling a crackhead that he needs to stop smoking crack if he intends to live another 5 years. What he hears is "I want you to stop smoking crack because I hate you". LL need to straighten out and realize that I may just be their best friend in the world. But it's tough love. Josh, I can understand you really. Maybe we just love SL more than they do. Don't be too upset if someday we need to migrate to another new virtual world...(I told this to myself)... Cheer up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Super String wrote: ". Don't be too upset if someday we need to migrate to another new virtual world...(I told this to myself)... And I can pretty much guarantee this whole DD fiasco is current fodder for another virtual world that I won't mention the name of so I don't get this post deleted. Last year their forums were replete with "SL sucks" (in so many words) posts. I was a lone voice saying, "Hey! Some of us LIKE SL, please stop the hating." (Again, greatly paraphrased for brevity.) Yeah...that earned me a "scolding" from the other world's owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'm already starting to open other accounts. So far IMVU let me use the avatar name CommerceTeamLinden. I have IMVU open in another window while I'm waiting for LL to do... well, anything, I guess. So far CommerceTeamLinden has declared himself "King of the Douchebags", and tried to start a "small p3nis contest", among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanara Zenovka Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/the-anosognosics-dilemma-1/ Great article, and ironically (since others have brought them up), that actually gets worse the further you adventure into smaller, alternative worlds - another kind of small town syndrome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Sautereau Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 With the new virtual currency laws, i`m starting to wonder abit more about the rights of consumers and merchants regarding the marketplace failures Can we hold LL really accountable now and report them to the watchdog for embezzlement with providing transaction details from LL own website? hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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