I feel kind of dumb asking...

[Fayette Charron]

   Alright, I was into SL pretty big a few years back and recently dove back in. I have been thinking of selling the shapes I create, since I'm a bit of an avie addict. I started making these shapes long before I had any real idea of selling them, so I have many with either "creator unknown" or with another name attached which I believe is from one of the original stock shapes you get when opening your account. I wondered if there was any way to change the creator name on the ones that say unknown, aside from remaking the shapes, which would be so not fun. I realize that's pretty much what I would have to do with the ones with another name attached.

   On a similar note, if I can not change the shapes creator name over, would it be horrible to sell them as is? I know the creation info wouldn't be there if someone bought it, but do you think people would frown upon this? The only shapes I have ever purchased were only to get the skins they came with, so I haven't paid much attention to shapes from other creators. I know it is nice to be able to check the creator straight from the item, but would it devalue my creations if it's not there. Thank you ahead of time for any responses. ^_^

[Sonja Smedley]

...make a label called "Unknown Creations" :0)

[Kai Heideman]

There is no way to change these informations. But - tedious as it is: just note all the values of the shape, create a new one and enter the values. Then you are the creator, plus you have taken a close look if you still like them. It is a bit of work, but I think it is worth it.

[Melita Magic]

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Fayette Charron wrote:

  

On a similar note, if I can not change the shapes creator name over, would it be horrible to sell them as is? I know the creation info wouldn't be there if someone bought it, but do you think people would frown upon this? The only shapes I have ever purchased were only to get the skins they came with, so I haven't paid much attention to shapes from other creators. I know it is nice to be able to check the creator straight from the item, but would it devalue my creations if it's not there. Thank you ahead of time for any responses.

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So where did the original shape come from - a Linden shape or one from a freebie shop?

If you really wanted to be scrupulous, begin again with "new shape" in inventory. 

No it is not possible to simply change the creator name on a shape - imagine the possibilities if so. Too many dishonest people out there. Unscrupulous people simply remaking a shape someone else made happens way too much as it is.

(That was not aimed at you. I believe that you began with some starter avs from Lindens, it sounds like. I still think  you should just begin with a clean slate.)

[Ariel Vuissent]

It's better to start with a clean slate. That way no one gets confused when looking in their inventory, and reports you for stealing a shape that is actually one you created but that doesn't have your name. Plus, if someone loves one of your shapes and wants to remember where they bought, they can check properties and pull up your profile.

It'll be a pain, I'm sure, but it might make it easier if you make a spreadsheet. Fill in the names of the shapes on the top (or, as a place-filler, just "shape 1," "shape 2," etc.), and the names of each slider on the side. Then wear a shape, edit it, and write down the values in the appropriate section. Wear another shape, and repeat. Once you've finished that, you can easily create a new shape and fill in the values, save it, and do the same for each shape you wish to recreate. It also gives you a chance to review and maybe change your creations if you so choose.

[Fayette Charron]

Thank you all. I can already feel a headache coming on, I have 83 to redo *sobs* I had better get to work.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Even if the original creator of those shapes is no longer in SL, they still own the IP rights to their creations both under the law and under the TOS.  Legally, You may only  sell your original creations, not other peoples work or mods of other's work, unless you have a license from the original creator to resell them. Copying them in any way to show yourself as the creator is content theft, no matter if you use copybot or do it manually.

[Melita Magic]

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Fayette Charron wrote:

Thank you all. I can already feel a headache coming on, I have 83 to redo *sobs* I had better get to work.

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Begin from scratch, and have fun with it. Don't copy down numbers and remake 83 shapes that began as someone else's work. Even if you changed some things, there are some decisions that informed the shape that still constitute someone else's creative decisions.

Inventory/Create/New Shape. Begin from scratch - the head, the cheekbones, everything. Then it is truly your own.

That said, we can't stop you.

[Victoria1488304562]

Think about it this way: you don't have to re-do eighty-three shapes if you want to sell them.

What I mean is, most shape shops only display about a dozen shapes. You only have to get a small number of shapes ready in order to start selling them. I think somewhere between seven and ten would be enough.

What do you need to sell a shape? You need to make your own copy of the shape, as everyone's been saying. Then you need to take pictures, so people can see what they're buying. It's good to show the whole body, a close up of the face, and a shot from the back. A demo (with huge hands and feet) is pretty much expected, although not all sellers do that.

Some sellers also include a styling card, so people who want to look exactly like the picture know where to find the skin, hair, and eyes used in the photo.

Once you get all that ready, you can start selling, and take your time on the other seventy or so. As you finish each one, you can announce it as a new release.

 

By the way, an easy way to copy the values is to open two sessions of the viewer side by side (using two different accounts). One account wears the original, and your main account wears the new shape you're creating.

[Ariel Vuissent]

I'd include a shot from the side, as well, when you start selling. Always nice to see not only how the front and back look, but also the side view, since shading of the skin can influence how large or small certain parts look.

As others have said, make sure you use caution when recreating your shapes. In order to call a shape your own, generally it's best if the shape you created looks nothing like the one you based it off of, even if the original shape is a "stock" shape that we all recieved upon signup. It is best to just start with "create new shape" and tweak it from there, but since you already have so many that you've created, just make sure that they are entirely your own, with no remnants from the original shape. If you can remember what shape you started with, you could even have two avis stand beside one another, one wearing one of your shapes, one wearing the stock shape, both wearing the same skin. See if you can detect similarities. If you can, you have a problem. If you can't, you should be good to go ahead and recreate and sell them. (Might wanna ask someone else, too, if they can see similarities.)

[Fayette Charron]

   Thank you all for your responses. I have started copying values and rechecking the shapes. I am getting there slowly. As for the IP issue. As I said in my original post I have some shapes that are linked to the other name, but the vast majority have no link to that name or any other at all. Even when I create a new shape from another I have, I end up tweaking every aspect of that shape. I put on a different skin and try and match as best I can the features that to me look best with that skin. I am not trying to copy anyone else’s work in doing this. I respect the merchants of SL and enjoy seeing the creativity that is put into everything inworld.

   I know there are many people that copy bot items and I have even seen forums on this before. I hate that there are people out there that will take others work and try and pass it on as their own in this manner. So I can understand the suspicion that Amethyst may have. I'm sorry that it is directed toward me, but as I said, I am not trying to duplicate someone else’s shapes. To be perfectly honest, I've never gotten a shape as a demo or otherwise  that I have liked beyond the picture taken of it, that in part is the reason I've made so many of my own.

   Thank you again for all of your comments. I appreciate the time you have taken to read my post.

[Melita Magic]

There is a big difference between tweaking - even in every aspect - and beginning with a system shape. People just don't realize that until they have done both.

 

[Fayette Charron]

   I have done both. I have create a new shape and worked from there and I have also worked from other shapes I have created. Also going through all of the shapes I have this past week and a half I have found the couple shapes that based on the original photo of the shape (I found the creators original form in pictures), I can see a resemblance that and I have no plan on trying to market those shapes, despite the fact of the original having been full perm.

[Clarissa Lowell]

I've been following this conversation off and on, and if I bit my nails I'd be down to the first knuckle by now. I have to say something.

When I started out in Second Life I didn't know how to create a new shape to work from. I was wearing a shape I had gotten somewhere, and kept modifying it over a period of several months or more. Then I asked someone how to make it have my name from the beginning. I was upset that it did not. I had put so much work into it and it looked nothing like it started out as.

But that was after one shape. 83? What gives?

I am not accusing you of anything and I don't want to. Shape makers take a risk. And since everyone thinks it's 1-2-3 people assume it is all up for grabs "after all it is so easy no one should pay for a shape" I hear that in the forums a lot. It is one reason I just made all my shapes 0L. 

It really does take work though. It does take some ability in my opinion too. Just like anyone can paint but knowing where to place the brush, which brush stroke to paint with and how, and which color to choose all matter. It also matters when people spend hours sliding the different numbers until the head is shaped like this, the nose like that, and the mouth fits in without pulling focus on itself. The body is another story. There are different styles. Some avatars are like caricatures, some are realistic looking people, some are dolls, some mannequins and everything in between. 

I prefer my shapes to look like they could be a real person, but for Second Life purposes, usually I make them look just a little bit nicer than they might in real life. Most people don't want too many flaws in their avatar (and try finding skins to match that theme.)

Shapes are the only thing that people feel like they can 'tweak' and call their own. Skins are not modifyable because people would do the same thing with those. Change the eye shadow color, the lipstick, erase the abdominal muscles or add freckles and now it is "yours."

I decided to let go of any angst about it, as much as I could, when I put my stuff out there. I have already caught some people reselling them. I didn't report it. Why? One was already going out of business. The other would be too hard to prove. But they didn't even change the styling. So it was pretty obvious to spot. Other times I catch myself wondering why some people take every single thing in the store. For one avatar? It doesn't transfer. But then I was in there and the whole store was glitching. No one could see anything. So maybe they couldn't see and took it all to look at later. Maybe they wanted to try some things on for their alts.

In other words, topics like this one make shape makers more paranoid.  

Again I am not accusing nor do I want to. I just know the work involved and I would like to see shape making more respected. Starting from the middle, when someone else has made the decisions on different parts of the shape for you, is not creation; it is modification.

And that's all I wanted to say.

 

 

 

 

[Fayette Charron]

Clarissa, Thank you for your comments. As for the 83 what gives part. To be perfectly honest. When I was first in Sl a few years ago I didn't intend on selling shapes (I started making alt avies on this account for photos vendor photos as to not have to find models). Now being on again i had forgotten the majority of how to do much of anything in Sl had had to start relearning it all. In making the shapes I would copy one I had done previously and work from there. That's why so many of them say "unknown" or in some cases one other name. As I said before, even in the case of that name, the original was full perm.

I can understand the paranoia that this thread or others like it can create. I don't want anyone thinking I'm going out trying to take their hard work and pass it on as you said happened to you. I enjoy creating these shapes and matching them to skins.

I may at some point decide to sell my shapes, but as of right now I'm rather discouraged and think I'll just stick with making more for my own enjoyment.