Working on worn OBJECTS

[Ekrei Bravin]

Why does sometimes when I can work on something for hours. I start working on it, hours later I end working on it, I've worn that object the entire time, scripts compiled successfully 100 times. Ran the code to see if it runs fine it does.

WHY When I log out, and log back in, is what I was wearing reverted back 3 hours previous as well as my scripts I was working on?

WHY does this bug occur. Wondering why im raging. For like the 20th time now I've lost hours of valuable time scripting due to forgetting to drop an object off my AVATAR and re-pick it up into my inventory before LOGGING OUT.

So dear SL, I want to know WHY this BUG happens? HOW is it happening? WHAT needs to happen to get it fixed? BECAUSE this is extremely annoying I lost hours of work I have to go back and redo now. Im sure im not the only one. Please adhere to your hard working customers and fix this Sh!t. Because I can tell you right now, if I didn't have so much time invested in this right now ( 100's of hours on this project, about 6 hours having to go back and redo sh!t from this bug.(not counting the extra time I have to put in now tonight just go get back to where I was." , I would be saying "f**k this game".

I think I can speak for all your LSL coders out there when saying. "We don't care if you have to pay someone for X amount of hours to fix this dumb BUG, please dear F***ING GOD Just fix it, we don't have time to have to be going back to redo sh!t we've already done. TY"

/end rage.

[Alicia Sautereau]

What i found working fine (so far *knockoff*) is to just detach and attach when done

but agree, it`s a stupid "feature"

[Ekrei Bravin]

Be cery careful with that. I can't tell you how many times ive been scripting on an object im wearing, then I detach it and reattach the object where its like, if I saved it within 5 miniutes or something and detach / reattach, the script reverts to prior to the save. The only fullproof way ive found so far is to drop the object on the ground and take it back into inventory.

[Innula Zenovka]

Sorry, but I don't think this is a bug -- I think it's intentional.

As far as I understand it, it's a side effect of some fixes put in place a couple of years ago to prevent an exploit which relied of the fact that if you modify a worn object, there's temporarily two instances of it, one unmodified one in your inventory and the modified one you're wearing,  that used to let people make copies of modifiable but no-copy items by wearing them, making a modification (e.g. putting a default script in) and then crashing their viewer.   

I can't remember exactly when, or if ever, changes get written back to the original and when they don't (they used to, under some circumstances to do with the object permissions) but I've found the only safe way working on scripts in attachments is to work on them with the item rezzed on the ground, and keep on reattaching it to test it, after it compiles.  And if that's not convenient, then you just have to keep on copying the script back to an external editor or even just notepad.   

 

[PeterCanessa Oh]

• It's not a bug
• When you log-out the rezzed version is deleted
• When you log-in the last saved version is re-created
• It's not Sh!t if you think about it
• If you've done it 20 times and not thought about it you need to slow down!
• So it doesn't need fixing
• And even if it did this isn't how to contact LL
• Swearing at us isn't going to do any good
• And SL isn't a game
• And we wouldn't suffer if you stopped
• So probably a lot of coders would say
• If you have to go back and redo because you didn't backup then you're f**k ed anyway
• (NB: Offline editors are good)

[Perrie Juran]

1. Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak. Bugs are good for building character in the user.  By filing this bug report you have challenged the honor of my Linden Lab family. Prepare to die!

[Qie Niangao]

Indeed.  Why should anyone ever want to edit a script?  That would be admitting that it was not completely perfect in every way the first time it was typed in.

[Perrie Juran]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Indeed.  Why should anyone ever want to edit a script?  That would be admitting that it was not completely perfect in every way the first time it was typed in.

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Specifications are for the weak and timid!  Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' - they have 'arguments' -- and they ALWAYS WIN THEM.

[Ekrei Bravin]

Its gotta be a bug cuz when I work on something and it compiles and saves correctly and I log out forgetting to drop it on the ground and re-pick-it-up. I shouldn't have to do that, it should be saved cause I was working on it in my inventory.

Why do they delete the rezzed version?

I saved and compiled it tons of times, it was saved.

Its pretty bad when thsi is happening to a-lot of people and its making them have to go back and re-figure stuff out and re-code things.

Not swearing at you or anyone in that matter, was raging at the system which made me have to redo things I already do.

Ide rather not quit considering all the time I have invested in on this, and its not one of those (im goona quit cuz QQ) threat threads so what you tell me is quite insulting.

Good for you, never said anyone would suffer if I quit, again insulting comment.

Considering this platform / game is designed around the creative process. This building tool should be as good as it can be for first time users, it shouldnt be built around (make sure to know key things before you do stuff). But eh, its all code and with code that does happen, those are bugs, but what it does, so others dont have to suffere and so you can produce the best possible software for your users and for yourself to show that you can do the best that you can.

I just still don't really see why this would be intentional at all. For instance. I like to go to clubs sometimes and script on this HUD ive been working on, its really relaxing for me and its nice to be able to listen to some live dj'd music and script at the same time, call it a luxury. For me thats sort of the thing I like to do. What I dont like is sittin at a club for a few hours and feeling really good, getting tired, been scripting but im proud of what I scripted and its time to call it a night so I log off only to come back into SL and see that all the code I wrote and figured out has mysteriously dissappeared. This to me seems to be an issue.

Please dont get me wrong, im not here to start an argument with anyone, I do not know the innerworkings of the code. All im saying is why instead of temporarly making copies of said items when you wear them and you save on them while worn, why don't they actually save? Why make said copys in the first place when if you get MODIFY rights on an object in the first place, your able to modify it? Why not instead not make copies so when you edit an object your wearing, it saves and your still working with that object.. You know, the one your wearing, plus not to mention it should take less memory as well because it doesnt have to create that copy.

Also as a reply to Qie Niangao ~ Why should anyone have to repeat and redo what they've already done. Like in LotR, when sam says  :: If I take one more step, this will be the farthest from home i've ever been. :: They aren't forced to go back and retrace their steps to make progress just because they forgot one thing. Why should we?

[Ekrei Bravin]

Thank you. Wish I would have read your post before the long huge one I wrote just above. That makes sense to fix that bug and protect buiders rights, thats awesome. But why do they have to make a copy? Why don't they just like make a placeholder string in your inventory or something signifying that you are wearing an object of that name. Like when you equip something, it actually gets equipped and disappears from your inventory and is put in world on your avitar, in your inventory there' is now a link created in taht place signifying that object, if  you click said link and click detach, it would check your character for said item and if that item exists then you could possibly detach that item or whatever. Also via deatching it would replace the item in the inventory with where the link previously was. Like working with lists.

llListReplaceList([inventory],[actual object],index, index);

llListReplaceList([inventory],[link_to_object],index,index);

[PeterCanessa Oh]

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Ekrei Bravin wrote:

...I shouldn't have to do that, it should be saved cause I was working on it in my inventory.

Why do they delete the rezzed version?

I saved and compiled it tons of times, it was saved.

Its pretty bad when thsi is happening to a-lot of people and its making them have to go back and re-figure stuff out and re-code things.

...

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No - you weren't working on it in your inventory, you were working on the WORN version

When you log-out and your avatar is de-rezzed what else are they meant to do with the worn objects?  They get deleted because there's no longer an avatar for them to be attached to.

Yes, it was saved in that particular instance, not in inventory.

Although it can catch people out I haven't heard that "a lot" of people have ever suffered from it.  We do all suffer from *cough* "version-control issues" (ie; we completely forget which version is current and accidentally delete the past week's work) but we don't blame it on the tools.  Sometimes we get better tools though - which is why I recommend using an off-world editor for scripting.

[Innula Zenovka]

I see there's an old jira about this -- https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-70 -- which was closed because no one had updated it for a year, but with the invitation to re-open it with more up-to-date information.

From what Argent Stonecutter says there, it looks as if  the sim records the changes to your script, but that these only get sent back to the main asset database by your viewer when you detach them (or, rather, that this was the case in 2008 -- I am not certain it's as straightforward as that any more, because of the anti-theft changes I mentioned).  

No harm in re-opening the jira, I guess.   I think that one reason it hasn't had much attention is that most people learn about this the hard way and after that always edit scripts in attachments with them rezzed on the ground after that, or get into the habit of backing up their code in an external editor while they're working on the worn attachment and then do the final save with the attachment on the ground -- that's certainly what happened to me.

[Vania Chaplin]

I may be wrong but I think that it is related.

If I went to modify my shape or anything else that I am using/wearing, the proper way is to make a security copy (if it is copyable) and than make the changes. If you forgot to make the copy and have already started to make changes, you can go back to your inventory, copy and paste the item, and continue to make the changes.

In the end the new copy maintain the older settings, the copy that you are wearing is the modifyed one. Once dettached, it becomes the original copy in your inventory, but the other copy stays unmodified.

This shows that when wearing an item, you have 2 copies, one in the inventory and another in the avatar. Only when you detach or unwear it the copies return to be one single item.