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Live Help? What is it FOR?


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Can someone please tell me what the Live Help is SUPPOSED to do when you contact them? Because.. they don't do abuse issues. They don't do tech issues.. what are they for? That is supposed to be a perk for premium.. and It's supposed to be an even better perk for someone paying for a whole sim ( which I am).. and THIS is the kind of help I get when I go to them.  I am so incredibly frustrated right now! 

 

Chat Started: 11-15-2011 00:12:19
Chat Log:
CathyHi: Thank you for contacting Linden Lab Support. My name is CathyHi Scout. Please bear with me, I may be handling several chats. Please tell me how I can best assist you today.
You: hi Cathy.. I've booted a bot from my group, but it keeps spamming. Can you make that stop?
You: it doestn seem to have removed it from the chat
You: doesnt
CathyHi: Hi Pannie Paperdoll.
CathyHi: I am sorry you are having a problem with a bot. I am not able to fix this but you can file an Abuse Report to have it take care of. I am sorry for the inconvenience.
CathyHi: Is there anything else I can help you with today?
You: but its a technical issue, not an abuse issue
You: the group should have removed the bot when I ejected it
You: it didnt
You: it removed it from the member list but it didnt close the chat
You: Thats why I came to technical help =)
CathyHi: Ok, then you will need to submit a support ticket to have technical look into the issue.
CathyHi: Is there anything else I can help you with today?
You: Yes please.. can you tell me what I come to this help for then?
CathyHi: If you have any other issues, please do not hesitate to contact us.
CathyHi: Thank you for being a part of Second Life. Have a wonderful day.
This chat has been ended by the operator.

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I like this part of the chat here: Please bear with me, I may be handling several chats. 

There are some people in SL that should put this sentence at the start when beginning an IM. When they take a long time to respond, it's not usually because they're crashing or are AFK, it's because they're chatting with several other people. You're simply not that important to them.

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Wow!  That is almost the exact same script I heard when I contacted Live Support for a completely unrelated topic.  They also didn't answer my question.  I got a response and solution faster from a friend on SLums.  I was then able to pass the answer to Live Support for the next time that issue came up.  Somehow, that seems a little backwards.

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First of all, the bot was in a group chat, not on my land. Second, I did eject it. It continued to spam the group after it was removed, when the group chat box should have closed to it. ( if you leave a group, the chat closes and says you can't use the chat because you are no longer a member of that group). OK..so they can't fix that. Its a tech issue? yes? The group doing something its not supposed to? Or rather, not doing something it should have. So they don't fix tech issues? .. and we know they don't fix abuse issues.. ( those are for governance, they can't access them). So.. I want to know what they are there for? What is it appropriate to go to live chat for? How is it a perk if the only thing they do is tell me to go file a ticket?  Is there a list of things they CAN do?  I'm sorry but someone telling me that I should file a ticket... is NOT a perk. People who pay for their memberships are supposed to get some perks..live chat is listed as one of them. People who pay more.. are supposed to get better perks. Concierge live chat is listed as one of those perks. Someone telling me to file a ticket is NOT a perk. I can do that myself, and wait months..the same as anyone else. Please READ the post before you tell me to learn to use the controls =).

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I am sorry but your use of groups as a social network likely exceeds the land management purpose SL groups are designed for. SL groups were never intended for social networking. LL likely cannot assist you in this regard because your use of groups exceeded land management purposes.

 

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Ann Otoole wrote: SL groups were never intended for social networking.


Is this true? Has anyone informed all those who have created groups without any reference whatsoever to land management? Does LL realise that all those people are deliberately misusing the supposedly restricted facilities that it has provided? Should something be done about this overt flouting of the intentions of LL? Does this abuse of the correct use of the capability warrant disciplinary action? Now that this issue has been brought to the attention of LL is it likely that all extant groups will be reviewed and all those which have no land management use deleted? I think we should be told.

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Rudi

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It is absolutelty certain groups in SL were primarily intended for land management purpose and work flawlessly in that regard. If customers want a seperate type of group for social networking then they need to enter a jira feature request for a social networking group type that is not connected to land rights.

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There could be an explanation as to why your "bot" was not automatically ejected from your group.  I've seen, with my own two eyes, where someone (my sister) was ejected from a group, but because they (my sister) were wearing the group tag at the time, were still able to post to the group.

I won't get into the fact that the reason why my sister was ejected from that group was because they were a hypersensitive bunch of nitwits that couldn't deal with someone (my sister) telling them like it is and where to get off.  But suffice it to say that if someone, bot or not, is in a group and wearing the group tab when they get ejected from that group, they will still be able to post to it.

This is something that the live chat idiots would never have known.  You'd have been better off coming here, to the forum, to get advice on what's really going on.

Something LL should honestly take into consideration.  They can pay people that don't know a damn thing about what's really going on inworld or support the very people that help their fellow residents, all the time, here in the forums.  It's not hard to understand which investment would pay off the most.

Are you listening Rodvik?

...Dres

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You can eject an account from a group. However that account will remain connected to the group until that account logs off. This is why it is critical one does not use SL groups for anything except land management and people make sure they never allow strangers into their goups. Groups in SL are not currently meant for social networking and it is not LL's fault people are abusing groups.

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Ann Otoole wrote:

It is absolutelty certain groups in SL were primarily intended for land management purpose and work flawlessly in that regard. If customers want a seperate type of group for social networking then they need to enter a jira feature request for a social networking group type that is not connected to land rights.

LL's failure with groups was their idea to connect them to property rights in the first place. Groups should have been exclusively social to begin with and land rights should have been able to be given to whomever a person chooses, no matter what group they happen to belong to.  The fact that one single person has to create a whole group to share one single piece of land with one other single person is completely ludicrous.  Certainly, with hindsight, LL would not have set the system up that way.

...Dres

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Ann Otoole wrote:

it is critical one does not use SL groups for anything except land management and people make sure they never allow strangers into their goups. Groups in SL are not currently meant for social networking and it is not LL's fault people are abusing groups.

Thank you for clarifying the situation. I shall resign from all the social groups I am a member of as soon as I get inworld, and henceforth intend to AR everyone I see that flaunts membership of such groups, for flagrant breaches of LL's intent.

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Rudi

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Ann Otoole wrote:

You can eject an account from a group. However that account will remain connected to the group until that account logs off. This is why it is critical one does not use SL groups for anything except land management and people make sure they never allow strangers into their goups. Groups in SL are not currently meant for social networking and it is not LL's fault people are abusing groups.

But then, why would you want land managed by a group if you are having a problem with a group member?  How much damage could someone do to what's on a piece of property, simply because they can't be kicked out of a group right away?  The system is screwed up and has been that way since it's conception.

...Dres

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Ann Otoole wrote:

I respectfully disagree. I have never had group issues because I use them solely for land management as intended.

If you want social networking groups then request them via jira.

You disagree, yet offer no rational reason for doing so.  If you think groups should only be used for land management, then you file a JIRA.

...Dres

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Ann Otoole wrote:You cannot mix land rights with social groups.


I am delighted that you are here in the forums to explain this to myself, all the others in the forum, and hopefully LL.

When will you be drafting a JIRA requesting the relevant changes that are obviously necessary to eliminate this shameless repurposing of what appears, despite the apparent criticisms which seem to be continually raised, to otherwise be a perfect land administration mechanism?

Should a protest be organised in these forums and via the Linden Profile feeds and IM channels, and the activist mechanisms that Twitter offers used to publicise this disgraceful perversion of LL provided facilities?

Perhaps we could get Prok involved, and write a letter to the SL Herald or whichever news organ is most influential. I hesitate to suggest that other forums might be approached to lend weight to the campaign, although I have heard that LL's CEO posts more to third party outlets than here.

What do you think?

***

Rudi

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Ann Otoole wrote:

I respectfully disagree. I have never had group issues because I use them solely for land management as intended.

If you want social networking groups then request them via jira.

You disagree, yet offer no rational reason for doing so.  If you think groups should only be used for land management, then you file a JIRA.

...Dres

Sorry but I am not having any isues with groups because I am not abusing them.

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Ann Otoole wrote:

I will not be drafting anything. Already been there done that. Up to the "people" to deal with the absolute requirement for a group type that exists to serve social networking. Have at it.

CanI quote you as an expert reference to LL when I AR all those I come across who are flagrantly abusing LL's systems?

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Rudi

***

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Ann Otoole wrote:

You can eject an account from a group. However that account will remain connected to the group until that account logs off. This is why it is critical one does not use SL groups for anything except land management and people make sure they never allow strangers into their goups. Groups in SL are not currently meant for social networking and it is not LL's fault people are abusing groups.

But then, why would you want land managed by a group if you are having a problem with a group member?  How much damage could someone do to what's on a piece of property, simply because they can't be kicked out of a group right away?  The system is screwed up and has been that way since it's conception.

...Dres

How much damage? Well back in the days of yore before you were apparently around there were only owner and everyone roles. Back then all the scammer ring (to this day still in operation in SL) had to do was gain confidence into a land group as officers. Then AR party the owner and while the owner was suspended the con artists would sell the land to themselves for L$0 and wipe out the legit land owner. Then LL established the group owner role that cut this common scam off.

 

Never use land groups for anything except land management. If you want social groups then rerquest them via jira. Short of that absolutely zero is going to happen so don't waste your time.

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RudolphUkka wrote:


Ann Otoole wrote:

I will not be drafting anything. Already been there done that. Up to the "people" to deal with the absolute requirement for a group type that exists to serve social networking. Have at it.

CanI quote you as an expert reference to LL when I AR all those I come across who are flagrantly abusing LL's systems?

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Rudi

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LL is well aware of how people abuse the system. But nobody ever requests a solution via jira.

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Ann Otoole wrote:


Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Ann Otoole wrote:

You can eject an account from a group. However that account will remain connected to the group until that account logs off. This is why it is critical one does not use SL groups for anything except land management and people make sure they never allow strangers into their goups. Groups in SL are not currently meant for social networking and it is not LL's fault people are abusing groups.

But then, why would you want land managed by a group if you are having a problem with a group member?  How much damage could someone do to what's on a piece of property, simply because they can't be kicked out of a group right away?  The system is screwed up and has been that way since it's conception.

...Dres

How much damage? Well back in the days of yore before you were apparently around there were only owner and everyone roles. Back then all the scammer ring (to this day still in operation in SL) had to do was gain confidence into a land group as officers. Then AR party the owner and while the owner was suspended the con artists would sell the land to themselves for L$0 and wipe out the legit land owner. Then LL established the group owner role that cut this common scam off.

 

Never use land groups for anything except land management. If you want social groups then rerquest them via jira. Short of that absolutely zero is going to happen so don't waste your time.

...Dres *hopes were dashed*

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Ann Otoole wrote:

Never use land groups for anything except land management. If you want social groups then rerquest them via jira. Short of that absolutely zero is going to happen so don't waste your time.

OK, now I am getting confused again. Are there Land Groups that are different from other Groups? Are your concerns about Land Groups being used as Social Groups still valid when applied to Groups that don't own any Land? Is there a danger that a Social group might spontaneously convert into a Land Group (or vice versa) with the opportunity for callous fraudsters to inveigle their way into the confidence of owners of Land Groups and use the techniques, that you are publicising, to steal Land?

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Rudi

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