Tristizia Demonista Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Well, then you also know that this won't work Updates have to be forced upon users or they won't be applied, ask any Admin and you will get exactly this answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Robonaught Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Perhaps a restart time choice set by LL? Say like chose between 10am or 10pm settings and if no setting has been set use a default Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 MB Robonaught wrote: Perhaps a restart time choice set by LL? Say like chose between 10am or 10pm settings and if no setting has been set use a default Yes, that's exactly what I proposed. I have no problem with them being done, just that i'd like a little control over the time window that suits me and my business the most thanks. Failing this, much more than 5 minutes notice and at least an option to defer for a period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SappaDallagio Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 When it comes right down to it, all upgrades... whether they are Second Life related or the technology industry in general... are forced to one degree or another. The methods used to force the upgrade vary and have different impacts upon the user base. One possibility, for instance, is that LL incentivize the owners/managers to do their upgrade within a reasonable period of time... sweeten the deal for them a little bit in exchange for them doing the work monitoring, reporting, and if it is small enough in nature, to fix a problem with the upgrade (like an obvious typo in an upgrade script that may have brought the whole thing to a screeching halt). That's one level of force. The one thing I learned during my time in IT... it's a great dream to have every piece of equipment running at the same performance level on the same software and firmware level. But, in reality, that's what it is... a dream. Hardware failures... variations within components used within servers... bad batches of hardware... poorly functioning communications between remote locations... all of these factors, which are out of LL or any services hands (usually), add up to the reality that equipment is often on different performance levels on different levels of software. It's a livable situation; not the perfect dream, mind you, but certainly a livable compromise between the dreams of the IT staff and the stability the users expect. Should this sort of dream be forced to the point where customers start withdrawing their presence, both physically and financially? Only LL can answer that. All I'm suggesting is that for those owners/managers who are complaining about wanting/needing more control in providing the best possible service to their customers, LL should give them the opportunity to schedule their own upgrades. If there is a true spiriti of cooperation, those owners/managers know that upgrading their properties will be to their benefit and LL will recognize that they understand the owners/managers know what's best to retain their customers' loyalty. Upgrading is by nature a forced activity. How that upgrade is managed and the level of trust and communication that is exchanged among LL, its owners/managers, and its consumers makes the difference between the process being a minor nuisance or a major kerfluffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayrah Parx Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 There's been an intermittent problem the last few days, where everyone in a region gets disconnected about every 5-10 minutes, and the problem lasts for about an hour. Support doesn't know what's wrong because it's not something that can be reproduced. Maybe it's just network issues? It has started happening after 6 PM SL time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBaginski Bearsfoot Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I've certainly been seeing more forced disconnects, associated with signs of bad network performance. Things like a 24% pcket loss being reported. Whether that's the LL network, or somewhere else, I am not at all sure. And I think that one time it was everyone on the sim, which I can't explain away as my ISP's failings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Oskar/Maestro Since the OS updates, our region has been appalling. Intermittent very low TD and fps and some crashing. Maestro, you have been sent specific dates/times by Rivan Dressler I believe, if you've lost them we can send them again. We were pointed to the timewarp bug though fail to understand why a 10 month old bug suddenly affects us which coincidentally aligns itself perfectly with the start of the OS updates! Having followed that thread and watched others with the same issue, that JIRA is now classed as fixed and released and guess what? WE STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM. So just as we suspected, it wasn't that issue in the first place (so it seems) and since others are still reporting that they are affected then it wouldn't appear to be that for them either. Please watch this 2 minute YouTube video of our region with 3 agents on it, nobody else arrives or departs during this time and there's no rezzing activity:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm7gFkoNrxc The day before, Charlene Linden popped over during an event like this and said "Oh that's timewarp". Well it's not then is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Robonaught Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hi I wanted to add to my earlier post on tools that would help with self diagnostics of our sims. There are a a couple things that I'd give higher priority then others just to get things going. #1. A region scan ability. Even if this was able to be only used by estate managers if general use would put to much pressure on the servers it would allow the use of existing tools to be used much more effectively. #2. Fix and sync estate script times with the statistic bar outputs and make both accessible to scripting. This one causes no end to arguments as to what is going on in a persons sim when the estate stats say there are 300 running scripts while the status bar says several thousand. I've compared readings with an empty sim estate will say 0 scripts yet statistics says several hundred #3. Statistics in order to use efficiently require an accumulation of data over a period of time. This requires a way to save an input of data. I'm not sure the reasoning behind not allowing a text file type logging of information in SL but keeping data in memory is not a good option #4. Fix Live Chat. It just adds to a persons frustration when they request help and just get a canned response from someone that has no clue what is going on. For example I contacted Live Chat about an issue where several people were getting booted from my sim over and over yet had no problem on other sims. I just wanted to know if it was a grid wide issue or limited to me so I could file a ticket better. The response was for me to clear my cache...........how is clearing my cache going to stop others from crashing? lol I know you all are working hard on new things to make SL a great place to be and have seen some of the planed features to come. The future looks bright and I feel like a kid before Christmas waiting for all these new toys LL already has planned thanks for listening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 This gets worse. Now we have people in the sim who are reported as being offline to others and all communications for IM's in and out of the sim fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivan Dressler Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 and worse...I could not restart the sim while there. its inaccessible at the moment yet still running as far as I last knew...perhaps its crashed and not starting up again. dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearsawe Stonecutter Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 @WolfBaginski, As far as updates to viewer version open SL click the Help and select About Secondlife in there you will see a text link Release Notes there you can see what was fixed, new features or known issues. As far as network problems it is good to start with this handy trace route command (tracert) in a MS DOS prompt. Some time the problem is neither your ISP or SL network and when that is the case it takes an act of god to get it resolved. Which did happen to me once. I was getting a 2% packet loss on my own sim but on other sim was fine. After doing a trace route on my sims IP I found network work traffic was taking a completely different route as to when on a main land sim. And in the middle of cyber space was a router having issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneD DeCuir Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Hey Oskar I would simply mention that you focus on improving further to the development of le tigre and blue steel servers. Keep magnum aside because its simcrossing with and without huge attachments worn is a mess. I tried it many times with a boat with 3 attachments with a total of 768 prims. On some southward placed regions along the anwr-channel it hooked me up because that is one place with a big mixup of server versions runned on the different adjoining simulators. The second place to get also terrible simcrossings is the way from northeast of nautilus - started from blake sea azimuth in the east - thru the second lines of simulators northly from nautilus to the doria sim at west. Magnum is also worse by rezzing, script performance and on sim's with a heavy avatar load (more then 45). My best experiences i had on le tigre with heavy avatar usage (45+) as also a bit more stuck on such runned on blue steel. On blue steel runned sim's north of nautilus i had some times a very smooth simcrossing even with that boat, with no delay on crossing as i sit on it and it runned with autopilot from sim to sim at med speed. Sadly only in the hours, when in sl average users of 40'000 where logged in. Good luck with testing and may many help you improve the usability of second life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneD DeCuir Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 #After doing a trace route on my sims IP I found network work traffic was taking a completely different route as to when on a main land sim. I did the same and i guess mainland sim's where different sorted then estates. On mainland my bandwith is always somewhat from 45 to 200 kpbs (the lower graph on the statistics network bar) by 24 to an average of 30 fps. On estates its somewhere between 0 to 350 kbps, but with more then 15 avatars in a region they drop down to an average of 0 to 40 kbps by 15 fps on a empty sim and 0 - 2 kbps and 5 - 10 fps on a sim with more then 15 avatars in. I know simperformance is also caused or is dropped by how many scripts are running in a simulator, but my overall experiences are almost better on mainland then on estates. I never would pay 300$ a month for a poorer perfomance and i even dont need the more widely terraforming abilities on estates compared to the better performance of mainland sim's. For that sum you can rent a dedicated server by some hosting companies for 100$ a month, drop your beta opensim software on it and have fun with fewer lag and delays. Yes my dear lindens, its not worth more then 100 bucks a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Robonaught Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 15 high scripted avatars will cause that. You need more data before jumping to the conclusion it is only LL's fault. While I'm sure there is room for improvement on LL's side as well I've noticed a lot of changes this year for the better. I own two connected sims on the magnum server and can cross the border most of the time at 480MH without experiencing a lag hit. However those rare times when one gets put on the main and the other magnum you're lucky to walk let alone drive. We drag race where a win or a loss is usually by a thousandth of a sec. The fact the races are that close says something for sim stability. But then again we don't allow script maniacs during a race. So instead of accusing LL everyone should go after those script writers that don't take time to write efficient scripts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oskar Linden Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thanks for everyone who added ideas about what would make things better for estate owners / managers. I'll compile these results and share them with the team. As for some of the poor stability of late we've been looking into it. This weekend was particularly bad for certain regions. We had some working on it over the weekend to track the cause and are still doing so. As soon as we have a fix or I know more about it I will share it with you. __Oskar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oskar Linden Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Sassy Romano wrote: I'D REALLY LIKE A METHOD TO DEFER YOUR RESTARTS! I accept that LL wants to keep it's platform up to date but your off peak hours are MY peak hours and I don't see that as the customer, that should be forced upon me. I'd like a window where I can set when the sim will update which is inside your update window and not "Region is restarting in 5 minutes". I could have a bulid open, scripts open and be afk on the phone or in a different room and come back and i've lost work. The deferring restarts thing is a good idea. I wish we could do that. The system is built in such a way that makes that currently impossible as I understand it. We upgrade machines not regions with new simulator executables during rolling restarts. A single server can only run one version of the simulator for all the regions being served on itself. There is no way for one region on a shared simhost to stay on an older version until it is ready. You could potentially move a region to a different simhost but then that region would need to be restarted which is the issue at hand. Would a longer restart warning help? If we did the overall rolling restarts would be increased. That's what we're trying to avoid. We want to get this done and over with as fast as possible with the least impact. __Oskar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB Robonaught Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Not sure if this is possible or not but set a group of machines to restart on AM and the other be PM and let the sim owner chose which machine to be on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillysilly Button Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 can you help me my sl name is: dillysilly button and i have got a error on sl viewer it say: login failed unable to connect to simulator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillysilly Button Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 can you help me my sl name is: dillysilly button and i have got a error on sl viewer it say: login failed unable to connect to simulator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 dillysilly Button wrote: can you help me my sl name is: dillysilly button and i have got a error on sl viewer it say: login failed unable to connect to simulator A list of resources that may help you resoulve this and other problems can be found at the following link: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Official-Resources/td-p/1212519 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 dillysilly Button wrote: can you help me my sl name is: dillysilly button and i have got a error on sl viewer it say: login failed unable to connect to simulator A list of resources that may help you resoulve this and other problems can be found at the following link: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Official-Resources/td-p/1212519 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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