Wearing ~8Mil triangles on a single attachment point = not a problem...

[Maniac Choche]

Hello,

Now I know there are no limits with attachments but this is insane..

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/snapshot001i.jpg/

The PE of those rezzed is ~11K.

I've noticed that some of the teapots disapear when I zoom-in, so I assume some sort of render limits kicks-in. But Show Render Info still shows 7840K tris.

So I'm walking around streaming vertex positions for 11K PE....

 

 

[Chelsea Malibu]

I'm thinking worn messes will be a problem that LL will need to address before grid wide release.

[Gaia Clary]

Time to book a region for adjusting clothes ;-)

[Chelsea Malibu]

LOl, exactly.  Your own sim to get dressed.

[Maniac Choche]

Haha yea, I've made the test on an empty sim

Still, I see no reason for designers to make optimized meshes for attachments. I always thought lindens are trying to make new users to stay, but how to explain to a newbie that he/she is lagged like hell because the freebie he/she is wearing is 2Mil tris...

Attachment limits need to be placed. This will force designers to make better and more optimized meshes.

[Gaia Clary]

easy solution: The more vertices an avatar is wearing the slower it will move. and from a certain amount of polys upwards, flying is no longer possible.

So add a weight marker on top of the screen, when it is green all is well, when orange, only slow walking, when red no more flying ...

Now is that "immersive user experience" ;-) ?

And probably a self controlling system.

[Rusalka Writer]

I like the weight idea. Of course, I've been asking for a mesh ARC for about a year now. Sigh.

[Lilith Heart]

hmmmmmmm .......  so we can wear  - 11k prims ......

 Yet large rezzable objects are severely restricted by very high PEs for anything over 20m .......

Perhaps I should forget my beautiful mesh trees for SL and make AV accessories instead where there are no sensible limits and anything goes !!!

 

 

[York Jessop]

Just create about 50 accounts each with thier own tree avatar, you could even have a moving forest!

[Drongle McMahon]

Beat me to it. They only have to stand there doing nothing, so a very thin client would do. Attachment points for birds.

Oh, and ..... Charlar is a tree (but he moves and speaks).

[Maniac Choche]

So I was able to increase my teapot linkset to 9.3Mil tris. (yay). I've set my RenderVolumeLODFactor to 0.00 and was able to attach it 20 times ( just for test ) on the same attachment point - right hand. The resulted tris count should be 186Mil. When I made my RenderVolumeLODFactor back to 4 and tried to zoom , I crashed on 20Mil tris. So I can walk around with this  "bomb" with my LOD factor set to 0, and anyone who is stupid enough to zoom at me is down.. 

This will be great for jumping out of a cake and crashing all guests

[Tarius Auxarmes]

Yep, I have been wondering what LL plans to do to stop this kind of griefing, because it becomes terribly easy with mesh.

[WADE1 Jya]

yes maniac, its a big issue indeed!

yikes

i hope we see this patched before full grid rollout of mesh. a simple tris limit per attachment could do the trick, maybe cap it off at 256 prim equivelency?

[Acheron Gloom]

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WADE1 Jya wrote:

yes maniac, its a big issue indeed!

yikes

i hope we see this patched before full grid rollout of mesh. a simple tris limit per attachment could do the trick, maybe cap it off at 256 prim equivelency?

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I like this idea. It would match the old system pretty well. Who needs to wear 256 PE worth of mesh on a single attachment point anyway?

[Maniac Choche]

 I like the idea too. Limiting by PE can be tricky because this number is linked to the object size, scripts, physics etc. Attachments can be limited by Streaming cost, and because of the ability to have multiple attachments on a single point , this number must be even less than 256.

[MaxTux Wonder]

If i buy an item, i pretend it works on me, no matter what, becouse i payed for it.

average user don't have to take care about prim equivalence, builders must.

Limits on attachments is the solution. Easy to understand and to realize.

Or limits on mesh upload for builders.

[Runitai Linden]

Two things:

1) We're aware this is an issue, and decided it wasn't a blocker for initial release because:

- you can fairly easily hit similar numbers by attaching 8000 sculpted prims.  

- as you've seen, the viewer just stops rendering triangles on attachments once the attachment gets insanely heavy

- if you "mute" someone, you stop rendering their attachments

2) The plan is to make the visual "muting" automatic based on client preferences -- if you wear incredibly laggy content, others will see you as they see muted avatars.  Unfortunately, doing the analysis on an avatar to determine if said avatar is laggy actually creates lag (you may have noticed reduced framerates when displaying ARC), so the two main blockers are to a) define "laggy", and b) make determination of "lagginess" not laggy.

 

 

[Lilith Heart]

Runitai,

Couldn't we use the same 'visual muting' for large mesh objects, based on client preferences, instead of basically making large mesh objects impractical because of high PE

We can attach 8000 sculpted prims (which is 1,638,400 tri polygons)  but I can't use the equivelant tri polygon of 2 sculpties  ( which is 4096 tri polygons) for a decent size 20m tree.  It comes out at 180 prims at only 20m tall !!

4096tri polys as mesh at 20m = 180 prims

I've seen sculpty trees that are 30 and 40 sculpty prims ..... This seems completely unbalanced.

For plants and trees ... tri polygon wise .... mesh is so much more economical than sculpties, yet it's punished by the dynamically scaling PE to the point of redundancy.

Shouldn't optimised, efficient, low polygon models be rewarded with a good and useable PE ?