Child Avatar question

[Sashiku Kas]

So, I was going to submit this question to feedback, but since I can't even FIND the feedback page, here we go.

The modesty layers have been explained better, but nobody mentioned nonbinary kids. Before you say that the gender is based on looks, there are no parts on the Toddleedoo avatar at all, as well as countless other kid avatars, so basing it on that is impossible. In any case, there are some nonbinary kids in SL, so I am just wondering what we are supposed to do?

 

Also, I think putting bras on babies is stupid and sexualizing. My avatar is 3. They don't need to wear a bra.

[Starberry Passion]

https://feedback.secondlife.com

[brodiac90]

2 hours ago, Sashiku Kas said:

So, I was going to submit this question to feedback, but since I can't even FIND the feedback page, here we go.

The modesty layers have been explained better, but nobody mentioned nonbinary kids. Before you say that the gender is based on looks, there are no parts on the Toddleedoo avatar at all, as well as countless other kid avatars, so basing it on that is impossible. In any case, there are some nonbinary kids in SL, so I am just wondering what we are supposed to do?

 

Also, I think putting bras on babies is stupid and sexualizing. My avatar is 3. They don't need to wear a bra.

Keira Linden is aware of the chest modesty issue for female toddlers and said she would look into it further. In the meantine, creators aren't required to make bra modesty layers, they just need to make some form of modest layer that covers that area. It could be cute tank top or even a onesie. 

[14:55] Keira Linden: I hear you all on the modesty layer on infants, and is something I am willing to consider, but I can't promise that any change will be made at this time.

As for gender and non binary issues, we have been discussing that a lot in the Linden Statements thread. 

The general conseus we have come to so far, is that non binary prepubescent child avatars should just decide on how they want to present through choices like clothing, hair, accessories, poses, display names, AOs etc and wear the appropriate modesty layers to match. If tomorrow they feel like presenting differently, then do the same again. 

I actually did a proof of concept to show how the same avatar with the same body and skin, could look very different. The only things I changed were the clothing, accessories, hair and poses. 

 

 

Edited May 12 by brodiac90

[Sashiku Kas]

44 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

Keira Linden is aware of the chest modesty issue for female toddlers and said she would look into it further. In the meantine, creators aren't required to make bra modesty layers, they just need to make some form of modest layer that covers that area. It could be cute tank top or even a onesie. 

[14:55] Keira Linden: I hear you all on the modesty layer on infants, and is something I am willing to consider, but I can't promise that any change will be made at this time.

As for gender and non binary issues, we have been discussing that a lot in the Linden Statements thread. 

The general conseus we have come to so far, is that non binary prepubescent child avatars should just decide on how they want to present through choices like clothing, hair, accessories, poses, display names, AOs etc and wear the appropriate modesty layers to match. If tomorrow they feel like presenting differently, then do the same again. 

I actually did a proof of concept to show how the same avatar with the same body and skin, could look very different. The only things I changed were the clothing, accessories, hair and poses. 

This is very helpful! Thanks so much for posting. ^-^ Yea, that makes sense. I hope they change the required bra for babies and toddlers.

[Starberry Passion]

2 hours ago, brodiac90 said:

Keira Linden is aware of the chest modesty issue for female toddlers and said she would look into it further. In the meantine, creators aren't required to make bra modesty layers, they just need to make some form of modest layer that covers that area. It could be cute tank top or even a onesie. 

[14:55] Keira Linden: I hear you all on the modesty layer on infants, and is something I am willing to consider, but I can't promise that any change will be made at this time.

As for gender and non binary issues, we have been discussing that a lot in the Linden Statements thread. 

The general conseus we have come to so far, is that non binary prepubescent child avatars should just decide on how they want to present through choices like clothing, hair, accessories, poses, display names, AOs etc and wear the appropriate modesty layers to match. If tomorrow they feel like presenting differently, then do the same again. 

I actually did a proof of concept to show how the same avatar with the same body and skin, could look very different. The only things I changed were the clothing, accessories, hair and poses. 

 

 

This just looks like a otokonoko to me, no matter how I see it in any form.

Even with boy clothing, you just look like an otokonoko.

[Sashiku Kas]

47 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

This just looks like a otokonoko to me, no matter how I see it in any form.

Even with boy clothing, you just look like an otokonoko.

I don't understand the word. Would you please explain what you mean?

[Starberry Passion]

8 minutes ago, Sashiku Kas said:

I don't understand the word. Would you please explain what you mean?

A Japanese term for males who have culturally feminine gender expressions.

Otokonoko means male daughter or male girl, in other words I am saying they look like a feminine boy to me.

Which is fine.

Edited May 12 by Starberry Passion

[brodiac90]

25 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

A Japanese term for males who have culturally feminine gender expressions.

Otokonoko means male daughter or male girl, in other words I am saying they look like a feminine boy to me.

Which is fine.

My mom says I can be sensitive and very empathetic.... 

[Persephone Emerald]

The more I see and consider these borderline cases for minor-presenting avatars, the more I think built-in coverage for the chest should only be for avatars with visible breasts.

Babies & toddlers - no breasts = no top needed.

Animal avatars - no breasts = no top needed

Furries - no breast = no top, visible breast = top needed

Girl avatars over 10 years old - visible breasts = top needed

Gender fluid or non-conforming minors - no breast = no top, visible breasts = top needed

Adult avatars are already only required to be covered in General regions or around minor-presenting avatars.

[Zarithiel]

I'm a bit confused. Nonbinary is a gender identity not a physical sexual characteristic. 

Do you mean androgynous? 

[Starberry Passion]

3 hours ago, Zarithiel said:

I'm a bit confused. Nonbinary is a gender identity not a physical sexual characteristic. 

Do you mean androgynous? 

That's what a nonbinary body is, from what I've been told and seen.

Some have said it's not the same but when they describe their body and then I show them body types

they're like "That's my body". pointing at the rectangle shaped body 

Rectangle shape is androgynous, tomboyish and sporty type of body.

 

[Bryte Starlight]

17 hours ago, Sashiku Kas said:

Also, I think putting bras on babies is stupid and sexualizing. My avatar is 3. They don't need to wear a bra.

Thank you!!! I'm really glad that other people agree with me, this has been super upsetting to me as an asexual adult with toddler and preteen avs showing Z E R O secondary sexual characteristics.

[Sashiku Kas]

17 hours ago, Starberry Passion said:

A Japanese term for males who have culturally feminine gender expressions.

Otokonoko means male daughter or male girl, in other words I am saying they look like a feminine boy to me.

Which is fine.

Ohh okay! Thank you for explaining. ^-^

[Sashiku Kas]

16 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The more I see and consider these borderline cases for minor-presenting avatars, the more I think built-in coverage for the chest should only be for avatars with visible breasts.

Babies & toddlers - no breasts = no top needed.

Animal avatars - no breasts = no top needed

Furries - no breast = no top, visible breast = top needed

Girl avatars over 10 years old - visible breasts = top needed

Gender fluid or non-conforming minors - no breast = no top, visible breasts = top needed

Adult avatars are already only required to be covered in General regions or around minor-presenting avatars.

I completely agree. Also you would be surprised how many adults don't follow that rule. :l

[Sashiku Kas]

6 hours ago, Bryte Starlight said:

Thank you!!! I'm really glad that other people agree with me, this has been super upsetting to me as an asexual adult with toddler and preteen avs showing Z E R O secondary sexual characteristics.

Heyyyyyyy! I'm asexual too!! And sammmmee.

[Sashiku Kas]

12 hours ago, Starberry Passion said:

That's what a nonbinary body is, from what I've been told and seen.

Some have said it's not the same but when they describe their body and then I show them body types

they're like "That's my body". pointing at the rectangle shaped body 

Rectangle shape is androgynous, tomboyish and sporty type of body.

 

This is true in many cases. Some people like me prefer a flat chest. Even my adult account (that I use maybe once a month, as they were made for posing in store ads and making poses with.) has a flat chest. Chest dysphoria hello there.  Everywhere else can be kinda feminine, but chest is a NOPE. That is also why I am so against my 3 year old avie having to wear a bra. I play a Toddledoo for many reasons, but one of them in part is that I don't want to have to deal with having a chest or any sexual characteristics in general. Wearing a bra is bound to cause me some discomfort and even anxiety. >_<

Edited May 13 by Sashiku Kas