Motown: LL's Partnership with Capital Music, and the New User Experience

[Dana Enyo]

It's awful.  First time I've ever encountered anything "country specific" in SL. I'm not in one of those selected countries so the whole sim is dead silence, I can't test the huds they sell in the store, and the YouTube screen is blocked.

[Dana Enyo]

And I wish there was ANYTHING "Detroit" on the sim.  I'm a native, so I'm sad.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Dana Enyo
Another thought...

[JeromFranzic]

On 6/23/2023 at 9:05 AM, Luna Bliss said:

Pretty much my fps and avatar count. I had no lag whatsoever, and was even riding a Teegle horse I got from the store there.

About the same for me, from my GTX 1050 loaded lappy. I turned off shadows (but left ALM on) and was able to walk around on high settings with some stutter, but it was mostly smooth sailing while I was there. 

For some reason, couldn't get the music stream to work. I'm in NYC lol... but I wasn't worried about that, fired up a random Motown stream for the vibes from YouTube instead via Chrome browser. 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Dana Enyo said:

I was really excited when I read about this.  I'm from Detroit, I saw the Motown building every day during high school.

Imagine my total disappointment when I arrived!  Multiple reasons (and I keep finding more as I go back hoping for better:

--None of the media works "due to licensing" outside of selected countries. I'm in Mexico, so it is dead silence and the big YouTube screen is black. (It's not my settings.) I realize the vast majority of avs are in the USA and Europe, but SL has never played favorites. On the SL Website page that mentions the Motown Club it even says "meet friends from around the world." Well, except Latin America and probably Asia and Africa.

--There's a L$1250 gadget sold in the "Motown Store" that is only available if you're I'm the US or Canada; I can't even try it out so have no idea what it does.

--There is NOTHING Detroit about the sim.  It would not have been so hard to find a few current or historic iconic buildings or structures. (A return visit found signage repeated on different blocks!  This is a no-frills budget build; my city deserves better.

--The company that LL is working with is all about monetizing music in online games.  Does this mean SL DJs are going to be blocked from using Motown music?  Are images or tributes of Motown artists going to be banned?  Diana Ross graduated from my high school; I guess I feel like she's more than a monetizable asset.

I'm sorry for the rant, but I REALLY feel let down.  After 14+ years in SL I feel maybe I have some street cred, so maybe this post will let someone in power realize some shortcomings that only a Detroit native living outside the country would know.

I hear you about not being able to hear the music -- I wouldn't like it if I was excluded, and especially if I was excluded because I didn't live in the 'right' country.
What would have been the solution regarding this though?  Do you think LL should have put off this MoTown build until YouTube was more compliant?
Might the fact that some could not hear the music be a negligible feature compared to the marketing opportunity collaborating with this music company currently provided.
And...how effective is partnering with companies outside of SL in terms of increasing the growth of SL anyway? We obviously see LL thinks it is effective for the company. I'm sure there are those who would debate this, and this would be a good discussion.

Regarding the look of Detroit, I lived on the Ohio-Michigan border for awhile, and drove into Detroit. I think this build very much captures the feel of Detroit, even with repeating signs and........a Teagle store.
In other words, I think you're being too picky with this part of your critique -- the aim is not to create a replica of Detroit, but to capture the feel, to capture some elements to a degree.

Personally, I think this build is brilliant because we need to honor Black people in the US somewhere due to our ongoing denigration of them, and this is a great way to do so -- via their music.  The fact that some can't hear the music is not good, but it does not outweigh my appreciation of what IS good about this project.

[Dana Enyo]

On 6/23/2023 at 4:33 AM, Theresa Tennyson said:

I lived in the city of Detroit for many years. The Motown build has a pretty authentic feel for me, and part of the reason IS the fact that it's a mixture of pieces of various ages (yes, in SL terms on a meta level), not all of them in the best condition. That's basically the world Motown came out of.

I found nothing Detroit there at all.  They found some rundown-looking industrial buildings and plunked them down.  Several buildings are duplicated--hardware store and pizzeria at least. Would NOT have been hard to put some Greektown and Coney Dog signs on storefronts. The iconic Eastern Market entrance?  Diego Rivera mural?  I'm very sad.

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Dana Enyo said:

I found nothing Detroit there at all.  They found some rundown-looking industrial buildings and plunked them down.  Several buildings are duplicated--hardware store and pizzeria at least. Would NOT have been hard to put some Greektown and Coney Dog signs on storefronts. The iconic Eastern Market entrance?  Diego Rivera mural?  I'm very sad.

Totally agree, even though I don't know Detroit.  What I maybe failed to communicate in my early post is, "So..they tried to communicate 'This is Detroit' with the run-down buildings?".

 

[Dana Enyo]

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Thank you!

(What would have been the solution regarding this though?  Do you think LL should have put off this MoTown build until YouTube was more compliant?)

I don't think the blackout is from YT, I think I'm blocked at the SL end.

( -- the aim is not to create a replica of Detroit, but to capture the feel, to capture some elements to a degree.)

I agree. But it would have taken an hour at most to capture some actual Detroit signage off the Web.  Keep in mind, this is part of the new Welcome Hub--it's the highest visibility SL can possibly give a region.  And it's there for new Residents as one of the first things they'll see. I think this should be the best quality SL can offer.

(-- Personally, I think this build is brilliant because we need to honor Black people in the US somewhere )

10-year-old Nat's Jazz Club in the Detroit City! sim has a CELEBRATE BLACK HISTORY sign up 24/7.  The owner honors the city and its people and musicians every day.  This new sim should too.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Dana Enyo

[Linda Sautereau]

As a native Detroiter and owner of the Detroit City sim in SL, I was excited to read that Motown had come to SL!!  I own a live music venue and hoped that this move would take music in SL to another level, RL music company collaborating with SL performers and DJs.  What a great thing to contemplate!  I love the fact that I get a free HUD to use to dance to some of my favorite Motown songs.  It brings back great memories and had me dancing in my chair!  But I have to agree with Dana regarding how it depicts my home town. Motown wasn't housed in an old dilapidated warehouse. It was in a house in a neighborhood and later an office near Dana's high school. I hear that the museum is closing; but I'll have to ask my friends back home to get more information about that.  I hope not. The LL builders did a great job of showing the current walkway along the riverfront, however! 

The fact that the music can only be heard by a fraction of SL Residents is appalling!  Perhaps LL should have waited until this could be heard worldwide, especially since much of the success of Motown artists is due to their support abroad.

Motown stood for class, musical excellence and dignity.  The city of Detroit is not (nor was it ever) 100% run-down old buildings, parking lots and parking garages.  A simple Google search could have given many pictures of the city...Belle Isle, with it's fountains and conservatory; the Detroit Institute of Arts, with its murals and statue by Rodin; the Fox  Theater where the Motown shows were held in the 60's, the Spirit of Detroit statue outside of the city-county building, the Verner's Ginger Ale factory, The Fisher Theater where elementary kids were taken on field trips to learn about classical music. To say that I am disappointed in the way my home town is depicted in SL is an understatement. With some tweaks, this can be a SL Destination that portrays the true city...not the stereotypical view of "urban".  SL is better than this and so is my home town. Thank you for reading.  

https://mcrfb.com/?p=28416

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Linda Sautereau
I forgot to mention that this should be available to everyone...not just Americans and Canadians.

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Dana Enyo said:

I found nothing Detroit there at all.  They found some rundown-looking industrial buildings and plunked them down.  Several buildings are duplicated--hardware store and pizzeria at least. Would NOT have been hard to put some Greektown and Coney Dog signs on storefronts. The iconic Eastern Market entrance?  Diego Rivera mural?  I'm very sad.

I like your earlier thoughts about Black History you saw represented @ another build in SL -- if it's not in the Motown Build somewhere it should be!

It's ironic that you are focused on the Motown build being a more exact replication build as opposed to giving us a general feel of the place, yet you unrealistically want only the most positive aspects of Detroit to be displayed when a replica would naturally include the negative aspects we see in the abandoned buildings.

Detroit has been an absolute mess, a victim of capitalism ripping through the world, closing factories and the loss of manufacturing jobs, and causing an entire city to crash in its wake, as well as providing a primary example of how the US does not invest in Black communities proportionally to white ones (Detroit is 80% Black).
Detroit really has been the symbol many have evoked when describing the change the US underwent as manufacturing jobs left, and the poverty that ensued causing so many of the problems we face here today, primarily affecting the Black community.
And so I don't find the representation of abandoned, wrecked buildings inappropriate or not representative of what it looks like there.
Detroit is improving though, but has a long way to go.
https://www.archdaily.com/986506/following-years-of-revitalization-detroit-still-has-a-long-way-to-go

Sure, I get that it's your home town and you want to see lots of nice things about it, but I see those in the Motown build too. Maybe not the ones you want, but I see loads of positive representation as well.

I think we need be aware that there is still great poverty there though, so I wouldn't want to exclude the negative.

What I find striking is the beauty that emerged from the place despite all the problems, in the form of beautiful music created by the Black community. Of course much of it was created in Detroit's heyday, but not all.

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I like your earlier thoughts about Black History you saw represented @ another build in SL -- if it's not in the Motown Build somewhere it should be!

It's ironic that you are focused on the Motown build being a more exact replication build as opposed to giving us a general feel of the place, yet you unrealistically want only the most positive aspects of Detroit to be displayed when a replica would naturally include the negative aspects we see in the abandoned buildings.

Detroit has been an absolute mess, a victim of capitalism ripping through the world, closing factories and the loss of manufacturing jobs, and causing an entire city to crash in its wake, as well as providing a primary example of how the US does not invest in Black communities proportionally to white ones (Detroit is 80% Black).
Detroit really has been the symbol many have evoked when describing the change the US underwent as manufacturing jobs left, and the poverty that ensued causing so many of the problems we face here today, primarily affecting the Black community.
And so I don't find the representation of abandoned, wrecked buildings inappropriate or not representative of what it looks like there.
Detroit is improving though, but has a long way to go.
https://www.archdaily.com/986506/following-years-of-revitalization-detroit-still-has-a-long-way-to-go

Sure, I get that it's your home town and you want to see lots of nice things about it, but I see those in the Motown build too. Maybe not the ones you want, but I see loads of positive representation as well.

I think we need be aware that there is still great poverty there though, so I wouldn't want to exclude the negative.

What I find striking is the beauty that emerged from the place despite all the problems, in the form of beautiful music created by the Black community. Of course much of it was created in Detroit's heyday, but not all.

As for me, all I noticed was the run-down buildings. I had no clue if the rest represented anything "real" in Detroit. I'm responding to your "confused" reaction. 👍🏾

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

As for me, all I noticed was the run-down buildings. I had no clue if the rest represented anything "real" in Detroit. I'm responding to your "confused" reaction. 👍🏾

ok...well I gave you a confused reaction because I didn't just see run-down buildings. I will take another look however and see if I feel they are unduly represented in the build though.

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Dana Enyo said:

I don't think the blackout is from YT, I think I'm blocked at the SL end.

I'm not particularly technical, but I read somewhere that YouTube is causing this problem...and not just for SL.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

ok...well I gave you a confused reaction because I didn't just see run-down buildings. I will take another look however and see if I feel they are unduly represented in the build though.

You miss my point: you wouldn't expect to see them at all in most "celebration builds". It's not that there were a lot; their very presence / existence in the builds is what stood out for me. Sorry, but you just don't understand my point.

[Love Zhaoying]

27 minutes ago, Linda Sautereau said:

The fact that the music can only be heard by a fraction of SL Residents is appalling! 

This was answered already. It's a licensing issue. It could not be helped, or they (LL) would have prevented it.

[Love Zhaoying]

Fun fact: For a lot of us 70's kids, our main exposure to Detroit cultural references were the original "Robocop" movie, and the underrated "Doctor Detroit". Those have nothing to do with recent RL Detroit issues or recovery from issues.

[Luna Bliss]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

ok...well I gave you a confused reaction because I didn't just see run-down buildings. I will take another look however and see if I feel they are unduly represented in the build though.

You miss my point: you wouldn't expect to see them at all in most "celebration builds". It's not that there were a lot; their very presence / existence in the builds is what stood out for me. Sorry, but you just don't understand my point.

So are you saying they should not be there (the abandoned and/or run-down structures), as Dana would prefer (when you responded in agreement with him).

Or are you just remarking on the strangeness of them in a "celebration build"?

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Or are you just remarking on the strangeness of them in a "celebration build"?

Correct.  You wrongly interpreted my agreement with them.

For goodness sake, don't go back and look for/at the buildings just because you want to argue about it. You were doing so well! It's nothing to get this worked up about. 

[Love Zhaoying]

I'll definitely let you get the last word, but in case you missed it: my original post about the dilapidated buildings focused on the impression it may give people about Detroit. NOT on any agreement about the condition of the city.

Someone else highlighted the quite low quality (with a picture) of an older building texture (poor non-seamless repeats); I wouldn't have commented on that because I didn't even notice it until I saw the post. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Or are you just remarking on the strangeness of them in a "celebration build"?

Correct.  You wrongly interpreted my agreement with them.

For goodness sake, don't go back and look for/at the buildings just because you want to argue about it. You were doing so well! It's nothing to get this worked up about. 

I never (or I guess I should say rarely) want to argue about anything.

I like to discover the truth about stuff I'm interested in.

The appropriateness of a build in SL, and how virtual reality reflects RL society in meaningful ways, are two of my favorite topics.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I never (or I guess I should say rarely) want to argue about anything.

I like to discover the truth about stuff I'm interested in.

The appropriateness of a build in SL, and how virtual reality reflects RL society in meaningful ways, are two of my favorite topics.

See my post, you missed an update. Go forth and seek truth.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Someone else highlighted the quite low quality (with a picture) of an older building texture (poor non-seamless repeats); I wouldn't have commented on that because I didn't even notice it until I saw the post. 

I could go through and find at least 100 building"mistakes" in the build that could be optimized, but why should I do that?

Edited June 26, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I could go through and find at least 100 building"mistakes" in the build that could be optimized, but why should I do that?

Nobody asked you to. At this point, you're actually arguing for no reason; I merely made a statement. Enjoy!

[Dana Enyo]

52 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

(It's ironic that you are focused on the Motown build being a more exact replication build as opposed to giving us a general feel of the place, yet you unrealistically want only the most positive aspects of Detroit to be displayed)

Actually that's not what I meant.  Not good or bad, but iconic, or at least recognizable.  A GREEKTOWN PIZZA sign would have screamed DETROIT. Even a CANADA NEXT RIGHT street sign would be great. (Did you know that to get to Canada from Detroit, you go SOUTH?)  

Nice thing is, nothing is cast in stone in our world.  if it had to get built in a hurry, so be it. But I truly hope that, with some time, they can really make that sim a bit more representative of the city.  It's open, it's running in an extremely visible location, and it really should be a great place.

By the way, THANK YOU to everyone who has responded!  We don't have to beat this to death; it's just really good to see others out there care.

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Dana Enyo

[Luna Bliss]

@Dana Enyo It looks like it was ME who said everything within the quote with my name at the top (in another post of yours too where you quote me).

I know you're new here and so don't know the best way to comment yet.  After quoting someone you need to make your comment underneath quoting someone else.

Anyway, to respond to your last post to me, maybe they will eventually include a few additional elements of the Detroit you knew/know and love -- that would be nice.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, Dana Enyo said:

Actually that's not what I meant.  Not good or bad, but iconic, or at least recognizable.  A GREEKTOWN PIZZA sign would have screamed DETROIT. Even a CANADA NEXT RIGHT street sign would be great. (Did you know that to get to Canada from Detroit, you go SOUTH?) 

Heh I remember that from my one Detroit Windsor border crossing. Almost got lost doing that and it didn't look like a good place to get lost in.