Group / Deed & Tier Fees calculating.

[Dodgeman DeCuir]

Hello, 

I am not sure this topic has been already discussed but here is my question:

A friend & I are both Premium plus.

We would like to "Merge" our 2048 Sq.Meters in a common group. 

But the thing i would like to know is if Linden Lab will consider those 4192 Sq.Meters as group merged land without Tier Fees or will LL consider the group owner to own 2048 Sq.Meters with an additional Tier Fee of 2048 Sq.Meters, even if this is coming from another Premium account?

Thank you for your Help and Answer.

Regards, 

Dodge.

[Teresa Firelight]

if the group owns the land, LL doesnt care how the sqM allowance is donated to group.  Both of you can donate half of what the group uses and LL is happy. SL wont let you donate more than you are allowed and SL doesnt really care how you spend your tier allowance - your own land, group land, waste it and leave it unused.

I use multiple premium alts to pay for my group owned land and have done so for a long time

[Dodgeman DeCuir]

17 minutes ago, Teresa Firelight said:

if the group owns the land, LL doesnt care how the sqM allowance is donated to group.  Both of you can donate half of what the group uses and LL is happy. SL wont let you donate more than you are allowed and SL doesnt really care how you spend your tier allowance - your own land, group land, waste it and leave it unused.

I use multiple premium alts to pay for my group owned land and have done so for a long time

Hmmm alright, Thank you Teresa for your answer, 

but i am still a bit confused. 

So basically, If we both give to group our Tier Allowance, will we get a extra Tier fee? 

i don't understand when you are saying "SL won't let you donate more then you are allowed.

Thank you

Edited May 7, 2023 by Dodgeman DeCuir

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 minutes ago, Dodgeman DeCuir said:

Hmmm alright, Thank you Teresa for your answer, 

but i am still a bit confused. 

So basically, If we both give to group our Tier Allowance, will we get a extra Tier fee? 

i don't understand when you are saying "SL won't let you donate more then you are allowed.

Thank you

You are charged based on your tier usage -- whether that be "tier donated to a group" or "tier directly applied to some sort of land".  If you do not donate more than 2048 and do not also have tier being used elsewhere, you will not have any additional charges.

LL doesn't really care about group tier as long as the group has enough to cover the group owned land.

Edited May 7, 2023 by LittleMe Jewell

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 minutes ago, Dodgeman DeCuir said:

i don't understand when you are saying "SL won't let you donate more then you are allowed.

This part just means that the Donate tab will only allow you to donate whatever you have authorized on the Land Use Fees page.  The bottom of that page indicates how much tier you want to be able to use, above the 2048 that you get with your membership.  It defaults to 0, but you can increase it if you want.  Regardless of what amount is checked on that page, you will only ever be billed for whatever you actually use.  Just remember that even one second of usage counts.

[Dodgeman DeCuir]

26 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

You are charged based on your tier usage -- whether that be "tier donated to a group" or "tier directly applied to some sort of land".  If you do not donate more than 2048 and do not also have tier being used elsewhere, you will not have any additional charges.

LL doesn't really care about group tier as long as the group has enough to cover the group owned land.

hmm alright, sorry to actually sound like a beginner, since i am with land ownership, but to make it short, what matter is your tier usage is calculated depending on the lands your bought around, as soon as you go over 2048 Sq.meters you start to be charged, wherever you are deeding to a group your lands or not, what matters is what you own as individual.

Correct? 

So if my friend add to the group her 2048 and do not buy any other lands around, she will not get any Tier Fees, but will be able for example to benefit of the whole group Sq.Meters without any extra tier fee since as individual she owns only 2048.

Correct?

Thank you for your time & help.

[Katherine Heartsong]

If you create a group that both of you are in, you can both donate your 2048 tier allowance (i.e., the amount of land you can own without paying extra money over and above your yearly subscription) to the group meaning the group can own 4096 square metres of land.

Note: Not sure if you also get the group bonus of 10% more (a total of 4505) with the PP subscription, I'd assume so, but someone will be along to correct me soon ...

Anyway .. now the group can go and buy a 4096 parcel of land (or land parcels that total up to 4096). Make sure you buy it for the group and not for one of you two. That also means the two of you will have a LI allowance of 1406 to build on that parcel, which is a decent amount for a parcel that size (house, decor, furniture, landscaping etc).

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Dodgeman DeCuir]

5 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

If you create a group that both of you are in, you can both donate your 2048 tier allowance (i.e., the amount of land you can own without paying extra money over and above your yearly subscription) to the group meaning the group can own 4096 square metres of land.

Note: Not sure if you also get the group bonus of 10% more (a total of 4505) with the PP subscription, I'd assume so, but someone will be along to correct me soon ...

Anyway .. now the group can go and buy a 4096 parcel of land (or land parcels that total up to 4096). Make sure you buy it for the group and not for one of you two. That also means the two of you will have a LI allowance of 1406 to build on that parcel, which is a decent amount for a parcel that size (house, decor, furniture, landscaping etc).

 

Hello Katherine, 

thank you for your answer, 

alright so from this point none of us got to pay a Tier Fee and we are able to use 4505 without tiers Fee, correct?

Let say i want us to own through the group an extra amount of land to be comfortable with prims and also pay a Tier Fee of 31$ per month no more, i shall then buy in the name of the group an extra 8,192 Sq.Meters parcel? 

or the 10% is going to come in the middle and mess with the Tier Fee?

Thanks for your answer.

[LittleMe Jewell]

43 minutes ago, Dodgeman DeCuir said:

what matters is what you own as individual.

Correct? 

 

Not exactly - though you might have it right in your mind and just worded it incorrectly.

The amount that you own as an individual -- i.e. you see your name on the land tab as owner -- AND the amount that you donate to groups is YOUR TOTAL tier usage.  If you do not want extra charges, then that total must be 2048 or less.

Any tier donated to a group is not really 'land owned by an individual'.  Even if the group does not actually own any land yet, the minute you donate tier to the group "your tier usage' is there.  When the group finally buys land, the group owns the land - there is still no individual ownership there.

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by LittleMe Jewell

[Katherine Heartsong]

25 minutes ago, Dodgeman DeCuir said:

Hello Katherine, 

thank you for your answer, 

alright so from this point none of us got to pay a Tier Fee and we are able to use 4505 without tiers Fee, correct?

Let say i want us to own through the group an extra amount of land to be comfortable with prims and also pay a Tier Fee of 31$ per month no more, i shall then buy in the name of the group an extra 8,192 Sq.Meters parcel? 

or the 10% is going to come in the middle and mess with the Tier Fee?

Thanks for your answer.

4096 or 4505, not sure if that 10% bonus for group applies, but I think it does, yes. Either way, yes to your question.

Now, as you suggest, if one of you pays an extra $31 a month you'd be allowed 8192 more land. You can donate that to the group as well, since one of you will now show you have a tier allowance of 2048 + 8192 (10,240) and if you donate all to the group between the two of you the group would be allowed to own 12,288 (without the 10%) and a total LI allowance of 4,218 on that.

Finding a nice piece of land that big will be a challenge (i.e., costly) if you're looking for anything scenic or coastal. The current parcel of 8192 next to me on the Blake Sea is, for example, selling for 75,000, and that's cheap for my neighbourhood. There are parcels that are half that size for 100K nearby.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Dodgeman DeCuir]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Not exactly - though you might have it right in your mind and just worded it incorrectly.

The amount that you own as an individual -- i.e. you see your name on the land tab as owner -- AND the amount that you donate to groups is YOUR TOTAL tier usage.  If you do not want extra charges, then that total must be 2048 or less.

Any tier donated to a group is not really 'land owned by an individual'.  Even if the group does not actually own any land yet, the minute you donate tier to the group "your tier usage' is there.  When the group finally buys land, the group owns the land - there is still no individual ownership there.

 

Thank you For detailing, LittleMe, it is a bit tricky but i am getting to it!

[Dodgeman DeCuir]

1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

4096 or 4505, not sure if that 10% bonus for group applies, but I think it does, yes. Either way, yes to your question.

Now, as you suggest, if one of you pays an extra $31 a month you'd be allowed 8192 more land. You can donate that to the group as well, since one of you will now show you have a tier allowance of 2048 + 8192 (10,240) and if you donate all to the group between the two of you the group would be allowed to own 12,288 (without the 10%) and a total LI allowance of 4,218 on that.

Finding a nice piece of land that big will be a challenge (i.e., costly) if you're looking for anything scenic or coastal. The current parcel of 8192 next to me on the Blake Sea is, for example, selling for 75,000, and that's cheap for my neighbourhood. There are parcels that are half that size for 100K nearby.

Thank you for your help and for sharing the info about the Land, i ll keep it in mind! 

I got to discuss all this with Co owner. 

Thanks!

[diamond Marchant]

3 hours ago, Dodgeman DeCuir said:

if Linden Lab will consider those 4192 Sq.Meters as group merged land without Tier Fees

Simple answer is YES... you get 4096sqm (2 x 2048) for the group plus the 10% additional  group bonus... giving you a total of 4506 sqm...  ZERO additional fees.

(you get 4506 rather than 4505 because, in my experience, they round up)

(btw, if one is interested only in included tier and not other benefits, it is less expensive to "stack" Premium accounts rather than Premium Plus accounts)

Edited May 7, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[Dodgeman DeCuir]

17 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

Simple answer is YES... you get 4096sqm (2 x 2048) for the group plus the 10% additional  group bonus... giving you a total of 4506 sqm...  ZERO additional fees.

(you get 4506 rather than 4505 because, in my experience, they round up)

(btw, if one is interested only in included tier and not other benefits, it is less expensive to "stack" Premium accounts rather than Premium Plus accounts)

Hello Diamond, 

Thank you for your answer.

And you are right, in the end, multi Premium accounts give more Lands then Premium plus.

Something i had not considered. 

[Love Zhaoying]

17 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

(btw, if one is interested only in included tier and not other benefits, it is less expensive to "stack" Premium accounts rather than Premium Plus accounts)

..but Premium Plus gets twice the tier as non-Premium Plus (2048 vs. 1024)! How does your math work, if BEFORE stacking, PP gets twice the tier?

[diamond Marchant]

30 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..but Premium Plus gets twice the tier as non-Premium Plus (2048 vs. 1024)! How does your math work, if BEFORE stacking, PP gets twice the tier?

This is from memory so you might wanna double check it. This has been discussed many times in the forum.

I base my comparison on an annual plan, net stipend. To get 2048 sqm of tier via Premium Plus, you pay around $118. To get 2048 sqm by stacking two Premiums, you pay around $78, which is $40 less.

To get 4096sqm, you pay $80 less when stacking four Premiums compared to stacking two Premium Pluses.

Edited May 8, 2023 by diamond Marchant
usual typos

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, diamond Marchant said:

This is from memory so you might wanna double check it. This has been discussed many times the forum.

I base my comparison on an annual plan, net stipend. To get 2048 sqm of tier via Premium Plus, you pay around $118. To get 2048 sqm by stacking two Premiums, you pay around U$78, which is $40 less.

To get 4096sqm, you pay $80 less when stacking four Premiums compared to stacking two Premium Pluses.

Understood. So if I DO understand, you are not talking about the "up front" cost for "how much tier you get", but the cost paying for "extra tier" (taking into account all the stacking, etc.).

 

[diamond Marchant]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

you are not talking about the "up front" cost for "how much tier you get", but the cost paying for "extra tier"

I am only trying to determine the least amount of money one needs to pay Linden Lab for X amount of tier for Y amount of time. Tier is tier, regardless of how it is obtained. In my example, I chose a 1 year time frame and 2048 of tier and said that the least cost is $78. If you pay monthly it costs more. If you use Premium Plus, it costs more only if you are attributing 100% of the cost to tier. If you benefit from P+ benefits such as not paying for uploads, then the economics change. I suggest that one should have Premium Plus only if they value the non-tier benefits.

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

5 hours ago, Dodgeman DeCuir said:

Hello Diamond, 

Thank you for your answer.

And you are right, in the end, multi Premium accounts give more Lands then Premium plus.

Something i had not considered. 

More land for cheaper by just creating an alt account and paying for a simple Premium membership, yes, but as others have pointed out, there are benefits other than land tier that come with PP accounts that have some value to users, and therefore offset the additional monies being spent.

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..but Premium Plus gets twice the tier as non-Premium Plus (2048 vs. 1024)! How does your math work, if BEFORE stacking, PP gets twice the tier?

Paying for 2 Premium accounts, minus the amount that LL gives back in stipend, comes out cheaper than paying for one Premium Plus minus the money LL gives back in stipend.