New Second Life terms and conditions

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, BelindaN said:

The ToS "scroll down and agree" flipped in yesterday around 10am SLT.

I know this because I was in world before that time, but brought my alts in world to get a group gift in world. Suddenly I got the ToS message, and then again. When I went to my dashboard I was logged out and got the ToS when I relogged.

I intentionally logged into my dashboard so I could see the ToS and agree to it. 

Thanks all, for letting me know about it!

[Ceka Cianci]

2 hours ago, BelindaN said:

The ToS "scroll down and agree" flipped in yesterday around 10am SLT.

I know this because I was in world before that time, but brought my alts in world to get a group gift in world. Suddenly I got the ToS message, and then again. When I went to my dashboard I was logged out and got the ToS when I relogged.

I wasn't logged out of my dashboard , but I was told to log out when I went to look at any of the services.. So I logged out and then seen it when I logged back in.. I haven't tried the viewer yet since I've been out of sl for the last couple of days..

 

ETA:  I just logged in to see if there was a notice or anything and didn't get one from the viewer.. I'm wondering if doing it at the dashboard first, takes care of having to do it anywhere else?

Edited November 1, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Chic Aeon]

15 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I wasn't logged out of my dashboard , but I was told to log out when I went to look at any of the services.. So I logged out and then seen it when I logged back in.. I haven't tried the viewer yet since I've been out of sl for the last couple of days..

 

ETA:  I just logged in to see if there was a notice or anything and didn't get one from the viewer.. I'm wondering if doing it at the dashboard first, takes care of having to do it anywhere else?

In the past it has always been that you could "accept" the new TOS in either the viewer or the web account. Both is not needed. I didn't need both.

[Ceka Cianci]

Just now, Chic Aeon said:

In the past it has always been that you could "accept" the new TOS in either the viewer or the web account. Both is not needed. I didn't need both.

Ya, this is actually the first time I've ever done that at the dashboard before.. it's probably because I always logged into the viewer first and then came to the site.. That and I'm always logged into my dashboard as well..

I've never been logged out of my dashboard.. Only when I went to look at one of the services did it say, you have to log out before you can continue with this service, or something like that..

Either way, it's nice to have an opt in or out option.

[Love Zhaoying]

I don't understand why those who protest the new ToS haven't changed their profile pictures yet.

Maybe it is not really that big a deal to them?

 

[Chic Aeon]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I don't understand why those who protest the new ToS haven't changed their profile pictures yet.

Maybe it is not really that big a deal to them?

 

Well for me, while I certainly didn't like the new TOS I had already opted out of Tilia and cashing out to Paypal  years ago when we had to agree to Tilia terms.  I am worried that we may lose even more good creators. Some I know are very unhappy and there seems to be an inordinate amount of land for rent and for sale going into November --- but PERSONALLY it doesn't effect me in any material way.  

 

I don't understand the profile picture part of the comment. I haven't been following this thread all that much :D.    

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

inordinate amount of land for rent and for sale going into November

This might have more to do with the overall global economy and/or the homestead option for PP than a dislike.of the ToS.

[Ceka Cianci]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I don't understand why those who protest the new ToS haven't changed their profile pictures yet.

Maybe it is not really that big a deal to them?

 

Really my only problem was at the time, thinking we weren't gonna be given the visual handshake that we get every time..

That might not seem like a big deal to some, but to others when it comes contract time, it's a big deal..

To some people those handshakes do hold a reasonable amount of trust.. whether they do have to or not, it's always pretty good business to put their hand out there..

 

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Really my only problem was at the time, thinking we weren't gonna be given the visual handshake that we get every time..

That might not seem like a big deal to some, but to others when it comes contract time, it's a big deal..

To some people those handshakes do hold a reasonable amount of trust.. whether they do have to or not, it's always pretty good business to put their hand out there..

I'm not following, can you explain what you mean by a "visual handshake"?

(I was referring to a few random RL issues that were moderated on the Forum, causing people to protest.)

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

I don't understand the profile picture part of the comment. I haven't been following this thread all that much :D.    

It was referring to people who changed their profile pictures in protest to Moderation of Forum posts, mostly.

Most people have changed their pictures back, but many used the "protest pictures" for weeks - for example, "I cannot speak / I am silenced" or some other form of protest picture.

[Istelathis]

22 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I don't understand why those who protest the new ToS haven't changed their profile pictures yet.

Maybe it is not really that big a deal to them?

 

I wonder if people are able to access the forums if they do not accept the ToS, for that matter if they can access their account information to cancel whatever services they may be paying for in SL.  For myself, it has no impact and I already accepted it through the viewer.  This could be a problem for others though if the site is inaccessible if the ToS is refused.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Istelathis said:

I wonder if people are able to access the forums if they do not accept the ToS, for that matter if they can access their account information to cancel whatever services they may be paying for in SL.  For myself, it has no impact and I already accepted it through the viewer.  This could be a problem for others though if the site is inaccessible if the ToS is refused.

That will be interesting, as they may not find out until they next "log out" of the Forums (which tends to keep people logged in if they choose that option). 

[Ceka Cianci]

16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm not following, can you explain what you mean by a "visual handshake"?

(I was referring to a few random RL issues that were moderated on the Forum, causing people to protest.)

Oh, I thought you were talking about in this thread..

The only time I changed my forum avatar wasn't in protest, but because of getting hit up with warnings for trying to calm threads down that looked like they were getting hot..

It wasn't a part of any movement or protest, just me putting up the dullest version of me that i could.. They wanted a bot like poster with the rule changes, they got one.. If I could have pulled all my information off that side window, I would have..

I actually got a kick of how it went invisible when i lined up the background color of the dark theme.. But one day was cracking up because I totally forgot about the regular bright theme where it stood out like a sore thumb..

There wasn't a collaboration with anyone else, just me not wanting anything at all showing over there.. hehehe

 

Also, the visual handshake, I should have said virtual handshake.. where we can see the changes and have an option to opt in and opt out, rather than having to find out changes went on later after the fact and then having to opt out or in.

The only place I heard about any changes about to happen was in here.. So without that popup I wouldn't have even known they happened.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Oh, I thought you were talking about in this thread..

The only time I changed my forum avatar wasn't in protest, but because of getting hit up with warnings for trying to calm threads down that looked like they were getting hot..

It wasn't a part of any movement or protest, just me putting up the dullest version of me that i could.. They wanted a bot like poster with the rule changes, they got one.. If I could have pulled all my information off that side window, I would have..

I actually got a kick of how it went invisible when i lined up the background color of the dark theme.. But one day was cracking up because I totally forgot about the regular bright theme where it stood out like a sore thumb..

There wasn't a collaboration with anyone else, just me not wanting anything at all showing over there.. hehehe

LOL! I forgot that you was you, "invisible / black" pic!

Well, sorry, but to me that means you changed it in "protest" (of Forum changes)!  

My point being - nobody did that because of the ToS yet, I guess it is hard to think of a "new picture theme" for ToS changes. Maybe your solution would apply, "no picture" = "user gone".

[Istelathis]

12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That will be interesting, as they may not find out until they next "log out" of the Forums (which tends to keep people logged in if they choose that option). 

I wonder what happens to the people who haven't accepted the ToS, as far as being charged for whatever services they may be subscribed for.  As far as people who have stores on the marketplace, I wonder if their stores will be shutdown, or if they will continue to get linden through it despite no longer having an active account.  That would be pretty sad to see a variety of marketplace items vanish due to the ToS, and the creators no longer being part of SL.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Istelathis

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Istelathis said:

I wonder what happens to the people who haven't accepted the ToS and don't sign it, as far as being charged for whatever services they may be subscribed for.  As far as people who have stores on the marketplace, I wonder if their stores will be shutdown, or if they will continue to get linden through it despite no longer having an active account.  That would be pretty sad to see a variety of marketplace items vanish due to the ToS, and the creators no longer being part of SL.

Whoa!!! What if: if..IF..they have to ACCEPT the ToS in order to log IN, in order to DELETE their account (to stop getting charged, etc.)!

Mind..blown!

This is where I usually say, "Brilliant!"

Edited November 1, 2022 by Love Zhaoying

[Rowan Amore]

22 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That will be interesting, as they may not find out until they next "log out" of the Forums (which tends to keep people logged in if they choose that option). 

You don't need to accept the ToS to log into the forums.  I just tried it with an alt who got the ToS request on her dashboard (which I did not accept for testing purposes) but she was able to log in here.

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

LOL! I forgot that you was you, "invisible / black" pic!

Well, sorry, but to me that means you changed it in "protest" (of Forum changes)!  

My point being - nobody did that because of the ToS yet, I guess it is hard to think of a "new picture theme" for ToS changes. Maybe your solution would apply, "no picture" = "user gone".

Myself if I have a problem with the TOS, I'll probably just opt out.. It doesn't really impact me or change the way I use SL.

The forum changes, I had been in the forums  for a decade and a half with no warnings or anything..

The changes weren't what got me fumed, it was getting warnings.. I never felt like a threat to the forums but more someone that if I seen something getting hot, would try to throw some humor or distraction in there to maybe calm things down.. That's just how I handle tension in RL and anywhere really..

It had everything to do with the warnings and me going as blank as I could.. I even posted like a bot for awhile after that to make sure I didn't draw a warning.. I didn't even notice others doing that with their forum pictures until afterwards.. that was just my way of becoming more impersonal and distant with the forums than I used to be.

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Myself if I have a problem with the TOS, I'll probably just opt out.. It doesn't really impact me or change the way I use SL.

If you opt out, you can't log in to SL.  There essentially is no other option if you want to continue using SL.  

[Istelathis]

20 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Whoa!!! What if: if..IF..they have to ACCEPT the ToS in order to log IN, in order to DELETE their account (to stop getting charged, etc.)!

Mind..blown!

This is where I usually say, "Brilliant!"

That may be true, but if someone feels that passionate about the ToS there should be an exit strategy for them without having to agree to the terms.  On the other hand if the services are cancelled automatically due to the ToS not being accepted, some people who are away from SL for longer periods of time may come back only to find their property gone.  

[Love Zhaoying]

21 hours ago, Istelathis said:

That may be true, but if someone feels that passionate about the ToS there should be an exit strategy for them without having to agree to the terms.  On the other hand if the services are cancelled automatically due to the ToS not being accepted, some people who are away from SL for longer periods of time may come back only to find their property gone.  

I think it was Rowan who said they can get to the Dashboard, just not Second Life. 

So, they should still be able to delete their account, if I understand correctly.

Darn! Thought I found a magic Catch-22 rabbit hole! (nothing against rabbits, or their..holes.)!

Edited November 2, 2022 by Love Zhaoying
*"not", not now"

[Ceka Cianci]

36 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

If you opt out, you can't log in to SL.  There essentially is no other option if you want to continue using SL.  

That's what I was meaning by that.. If I have a problem with the terms of service to where I opt out, that means I won't be wanting their service anymore..

I don't look at my inventory as an investment of my money..I see it as a money sink or a drain for entertainment. If my inventory was an investment and I didn't agree with the TOS, I would go ahead and agree.. Then go in and start cashing out my inventory and then cancel my account afterwards..

Over the years I've become less and less emotionally invested  in it. So it's much easier to put behind me than it used to be, so i can get a lot more picky  with staying or going.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Rowan Amore]

11 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think it was Rowan who said they can get to the Dashboard, just now Second Life. 

So, they should still be able to delete their account, if I understand correctly.

Darn! Thought I found a magic Catch-22 rabbit hole! (nothing against rabbits, or their..holes.)!

You can get.to.the Forums without agreeing.  The dashboard requires acceptance.

LL is.not going to toss out your account if you do not accept.   You will simply be unable to access your dashboard or log into any viewer.  This will effectively lock.you out of any money earned as a merchant.  There are.merchants who haven't logged.in for years that still sell things on the MP.  If and when they do come back, they'll need to accept the ToS.  Same as it's always been.

 

[Chic Aeon]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think it was Rowan who said they can get to the Dashboard, just now Second Life. 

So, they should still be able to delete their account, if I understand correctly.

Darn! Thought I found a magic Catch-22 rabbit hole! (nothing against rabbits, or their..holes.)!

You cannot get to your dashboard without logging in. 

You MIGHT be able to get here to the forums as many folks that have had trouble getting into world could. I don't have an alt that was ever on the forums so I can't test that.

I can tell you that in 2013 at the time of The Great Exodus a lot of folks had to leave money behind as well as goods on the Marketplace that get sold with LL keeping the money now.  

 

My account in Sansar is still there and my Marketplace site is also. I couldn't get in to make any changes without agreeing to Tilia. 

 

And OMG I went looking for my Sansar site and found a really really nasty blog post by a controversial figure here on the forums (who I have blocked by the way).

 

It is long and a super quick skimming only found accusations about my incorrect SL history.  I don't even know what the actually blog post was referring to. 

FOR THE RECORD my original blog posts on much of SL history are on my blog. There are links and screenshots supporting that history.  

I don't feel all that bad about being a "mediocre figure" in SL.  I was at the top of the food chain in RL and that's not a great place to be either.    

 

Head and eyes rolling.   Believe what I say or don't folks.  I am not going to justify and source every comment. You can always look it up in my archives from 2006 on 

 

 

Going back to making some art and building an art community.  (Nope, not going to be nasty back :D)

 

Cheers. 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

22 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think it was Rowan who said they can get to the Dashboard, just now Second Life. 

So, they should still be able to delete their account, if I understand correctly.

Darn! Thought I found a magic Catch-22 rabbit hole! (nothing against rabbits, or their..holes.)!

You can get.to.the Forums without agreeing.  The dashboard requires acceptance.

LL is.not going to toss out your account if you do not accept.   You will simply be unable to access your dashboard or log into any viewer.  This will effectively lock.you out of any money earned as a merchant.  There are.merchants who haven't logged.in for years that still sell things on the MP.  If and when they do come back, they'll need to accept the ToS.  Same as it's always been.

Ok, so I got it wrong.

Does that mean people will keep getting charged then, if they can't get to their dashboard in order to delete their account, WITHOUT accepting? (LikeISaid, Catch-22?)