Enabling return of encroaching objects: Which Linden to bribe?

[Qie Niangao]

For several months, Estates have been able to allow their landowners to return encroaching objects.  The thing is, this is most needed on the Mainland, yet it hasn't been enabled.

Admittedly, this is a Mainland-only problem, but I'm posting here just in case Estate managers have found any problems that would justify further delay in enabling this across the Mainland.

I can see that the pending addition of handling encroachment across sim borders would have more utility on the Mainland than on Estates... but I don't see that as a reason to delay the current functionality.

It's puzzling that Support and TTFKAG* haven't been clamoring for this to get turned on.  One suspects they get paid by the ticket.

______

*TTFKAG = The Team Formerly Known As Governance.  A bit like Morticians / Undertakers / Funeral Directors, this group goes through euphemistic aliases faster than microbes develop resistance to antibodies.

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

[Qie Niangao]

Yeah, it's been around since... like, last October, I think.  Documented here.  Except that I always forget how to invoke it, and have to rediscover it anew each time.  (It's "Control-Shift-~" .)

The last I heard, Andrew is trying to get the cross-sim encroachment detection working before Mesh deploys to the Main grid.  (Not that this is on the critical path, delaying Mesh deployment; there are plenty of other reasons for that, I'm sure, and I don't know that it's even considered a gating feature for Mesh.)

[Pussycat Catnap]

I've got a few tickets out for encroachment, and its been something I've filed over a lot in past.

And just helped somebody in Arbor Patrol the other day who was suffering an encroachment griefer attack (stacks of glowing megaprim cubes).

There's got to be some reason they've never enabled this, but I can't imagine what. Maybe they don't want the nightmare of so many people's homes and shops and gardens getting returned by angry neighbors... But frankly those homes, shops, and gardens need to learn how to read the numbers in object edit anyway... Yes, even your tree belongs on your land.

 

The real problem though I suspect is in sculpties - is it encraochment if no visible part of the sculpty crosses the line? But the invisible bounding box does? - if that's a solid sculpty sure its an easy argument as you can tell where the bounding box is. But if its phantom - the person rezzing it might not even know they're encroaching, nor would the person who's land got encroached.

 

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

I do believe it was a result of the bounding rules being inconsistent.  Not just for sculpts, but also cut and sliced prims.  Their centers could be near the parcel line, but, cut away so that they wouldn't actually encorach.  The code was too simple to know the difference and needless returns would be possible. (>_<)

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

I dunno... the part about getting confused by cuts and slices seems unlikely, unless there was simply a bug.  The encroachment detection is supposedly done by Havoc, which doesn't seem to have any problems with cuts and slices when determining collisions.

Sculpties, well... the more of the d*mned things returned, the better, IMHO. :matte-motes-evil-invert:

[Melita Magic]

I'd love this ability.

There was recently a mega prim goo cube attack on one sim. Thankfully I had presumed this could happen at some point, and I had back land meant as a buffer to the active public lands. Still, it was annoying, and for the other people's parcels which they did live on, they couldn't  use their homes etc. Took some weeks to fix, although it did get fixed.

However then I found one of those things still in the sky above one of my parcels. I don't know how it got there, since I have auto return on and so does everyone around me. I cannot return it, even though it shows as being on my parcel and owned by someone else.

Then there's a neighbor on another sim who seems to have been out of SL for months now, but half of whose trees are poking through my bulids, ground, etc. on my side, and numerous attempts to contact have gone unheeded. If it were a branch overhanging a bit, fine, but half the tree? I can't use that corner very well where it's the worst.

So yeah. Being able to return encroaching prims would be the bomb. Boo yah.

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

[Qie Niangao]

Oh, actually... I'd forgotten this thread existed.  Andrew said something relevant at a recent office hour.  Irrelevant bits elided:

[2011/09/20 12:33]  Andrew Linden: Oh yeah, some news on prim encroachment... I spoke to Patch Linden and he's going to be working to get that out.
[2011/09/20 12:33]  Latif Khalifa: Andrew, for the mainland?
[2011/09/20 12:33]  Andrew Linden: The encroachment ball in in my court at the moment... I need to write up a summary email on the project to bring Patch up to speed.
[2011/09/20 12:33]  Pauline Darkfury: YAY! Thanks, Andrew. Any guesses at timescale?
[2011/09/20 12:34]  Andrew Linden: Andrew Linden needs to write that email today...
[2011/09/20 12:34]  Andrew Linden: No guesses really. I'll try to have a guess later this week.
[2011/09/20 12:34]  Andrew Linden: Yes Latif, for the mainland.
[2011/09/20 12:35]  Pauline Darkfury: EMs can already enable it as desired
[2011/09/20 12:35]  Andrew Linden: I turned on encroachment for Pauline in two regions last week
[2011/09/20 12:35]  Andrew Linden: so it is enabled in two mainland regions somewhere...
[2011/09/20 12:35]  Pauline Darkfury:
[2011/09/20 12:35]  Liisa Runo: is there something more to be done for mainland than just flipping the switch? or are you talking about the sim to another return?
[2011/09/20 12:36]  Pauline Darkfury: It worked nicely in the cross-region case
[2011/09/20 12:36]  Andrew Linden: No Liisa, I just think the switch needs to be thrown.
[2011/09/20 12:36]  Andrew Linden: And the Lindens who work on land and content need to know about it.
[2011/09/20 12:36]  Vincent Nacon: send them a telegram.

[Hugsy Penguin]

I read the link in the OP. Looks like the Estate Manager has to enable the feature and then the return process is manual. I'd love to see this enabled on mainland. Although it would be kind of nice to have this work with auto-return, I can see some downsides to that:

• how do you allow one neighbor to overhang but not another?

• what if you don't care about small (<0.5m or whatever) overhangs?

• what about someone who rezzes something big on their land that overhangs but just needs a minute or so to position it?

There's probably other things, but that's just off the top of my head.

It would be nice if you could right-click something and find out if something is returnable or not before actually returning it. It would be good for learning how well the system works. How does it work for the known bugs? Is it precise right down to the millimeter?

I hope this gets enabled on the mainland soon.



[Pauline Darkfury]

It's 100% manual once enabled.  You get to pick which objects get returned because you return by right-clicking the troublesome object.  If you're one of the nice landowners who tolerate the sort of situations described by Hugsy, as long as they are not actually bothering you, you need take no action, they will all still work as they do today.  The change is that you'll be able to more or less instantly deal with the stuff which is a problem.

If you're on a new enough viewer, the return option will un-grey for encroachment-returnable objects (if the feature is enabled in the region's config).

It does seem like it's hopefully going to get enabled soon, as long as Patch and the other Concierge Lindens don't see any serious issues.  Still no timescale for it, but Andrew seems to be supportive of it, and I'm going to keep nudging him gently about it.