TzunCet Xomotron Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Hello fellow residents and merchants =)I was looking around and couldn't find an answer, don't know if this would be ok or not and wanted to get some feedback on the issues...Can we use items to link to off site websites, or do all links have to pertain to Second Life? Can we use notecards (or by whatever inworld means) to send links to files for download (of course provided the files are ours and legit)? Can we charge for such items?!?For instance, I'm a musician, and I made a music "cd" (cd's are just files right? or do we refer to them as audio files now?!?)... I want to sell my cd thru an inworld store, but what I'd really be doing is selling a link to the actual files. Is this acceptable?!?I also saw in some inworld shop they were selling avatars of Batman, Superman, and things like that. I thought that things like that weren't legal. Hope I'm not putting anyone on the spot, but I'm curious.Any help, advice, opinions or feedback would be awesome, thanks =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Lohner Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 This is actually a somewhat complex topic. But in general, you cannot sell RL items using lindens. This is covered in Section 5 of the Terms of Service. It's complex because there are times when lindens CAN be used for things that exist outside of the virtual world. Prime example would be template files used to make avatar skins and clothing. But because they apply directly to Second Life, they fall into the allowed catagory. --Cinn http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Scorpio Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 In regards to Batman et al. yes it is not allowed. Yes you can sell a Notecard with a link to a download provided that you clearly state that upon buying the product what the person will receive is a notecard with a link. I will suggest you do what full perm clothing template designers do and instead of a notecard you give them a scripted object that will verify that they have purchased the product and give them a password and link to the download page. If you only give out notecards what's to stop anyone from sharing that notecard with anybody. ETA: Also what Cinnammon said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Scorpio Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Another option so that you avoid all the technical issues and legalities, why not perform live concerts in SL? Not only will you be able to earn money through tips but then you can also refer people if they are interested to purchase your CD through iTunes or some such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Lohner Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Darren Scorpio wrote: Another option so that you avoid all the technical issues and legalities, why not perform live concerts in SL? Not only will you be able to earn money through tips but then you can also refer people if they are interested to purchase your CD through iTunes or some such. Excellent suggestion, Darren! There is nothing wrong with using SL to promote your music CD's and downloads as long as the purchase of those items is done without using linden dollars. --Cinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Mokusei Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Cinnamon Lohner wrote: But in general, you cannot sell RL items using lindens. This is covered in Section 5 of the Terms of Service. This isn't true. You can use L$ to pay for RL goods, providing the transaction takes place inside of SL. Section 5 of the ToS states that you're not able to claim compensation from LL for L$ lost, and that it isn't 'cashable money', just 'game tokens'. A far bigger worry (to my mind, anyway), would be people copypasting the link to the file to each other, and skipping on payment. But good luck, all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TzunCet Xomotron Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 I'm not interested in selling music, lol, that was only an example to get the legalities on the table... You make a good point about my files security, but that holds true for any file, even password protected. Adding the password is only another line of text to be copied/pasted, and as far as the types of files, to be frank, there isn't any real protection. If Microsoft can't stop filesharing, I doubt I'll make any marks in that area. We have to have "faith" that if someone pays for something, they wouldnt want to share it w/ anyone else... But I totally understand your point, has been a long time plague for content creators of digital files all over and ever since... We sum it up like this... If people, good and descent people are going to pay for a product, they won't share it out of respect. The type of person who is going to "steal or copy" files, most likely would not have honestly purchased the product anyway, in short, there is no "real" lo$$ =/ When I was a kid, I wouldn't share my NowLaters... Those bannana and vanilla flavored squares of golden yummy goodness was far too precious to share. Even at ten cents for 5 pieces =P I went over the TOS and don't really see anything "specific" to my issue or the handling, acceptance of files w/ links to offsite files... They ask that we refrain from linking to competitors, which of course I also understand. I don't see an "allowed" catergory, even though I understand that things like files that I do NOT own can not be sold. Please, this is not an issue of me trying to sell other peoples property. It would be to files of my own creation... Just not SL related... I see no where where it states that files MUST relate to SL... It even states in the listing guide that links to personal sites are acceptable... That the "link" is for a download, shouldn't be a problem =/ Now where/how would I state that after the purchase, the person would receive a link to a download?!? CYA's are of course understandable and workable. It's totally accepted and is not an issue. I can go further and say that my for my "target market", this would be a dream... Pay for a link to a download. I don't think that because the product is showcased in a virtual environment it does harm w/ regards to marketing... Do people buy more inworld or thru the Marketplace store? And many thanks for the responses =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashasekayi Ra Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 As far as inworld versus the marketplace, it depends on the product really. If your product can't be demoed inworld, you might as well focus on the marketplace. For example, someone that sells homes or furniture probably makes more sales inworld because people want to see the actual dimensions of the item live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TzunCet Xomotron Posted May 16, 2011 Author Share Posted May 16, 2011 You're right, and that's a very good point, but there IS a magic number out there of inworld vs marketplace sales... One does better than the other, there are many factors and reasons that make people favor one style over the other, that's obvious and understandable, but simply by tracking numbers of sales, who is better is my question... You can break that down even further, if the ratio of inworld vs marketplace is "considerable", that's just something to think about, regardless of where your sales/marketing should focus... I ask, because it is crucial how well inworld sales are for this to work. Let's say, for example inworld sales was 1 to 9, that might hurt, where as if its 1 to 3, thats much better... 3 to 1, now you're talking =) Do people even like buying inworld is a consideration, and how best to cater to them... For my plan, I have to think a bit different, I don't plan on selling prim couches thru download links. I'm also rather new to all this, so I'm still trying to develop a feel of things... But to make doubly sure, is it ok to sell links to downloads? Provided the files are "legit"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanara Zenovka Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The idea's not particularly new or problematic. I remember buying some Spanish language audio tutorials this way when i was going travelling - bought a pack off the SLM whcih when rezzed gave me a URL and login for a site to download a zip of mp3s - worked well. Pretty common for file formats that are used outside of SL, eg PS files for clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Dakota Linden Posted May 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2011 TzunCet Xomotron wrote: Hello fellow residents and merchants =) I was looking around and couldn't find an answer, don't know if this would be ok or not and wanted to get some feedback on the issues... Can we use items to link to off site websites, or do all links have to pertain to Second Life? Can we use notecards (or by whatever inworld means) to send links to files for download (of course provided the files are ours and legit)? Can we charge for such items?!? For instance, I'm a musician, and I made a music "cd" (cd's are just files right? or do we refer to them as audio files now?!?)... I want to sell my cd thru an inworld store, but what I'd really be doing is selling a link to the actual files. Is this acceptable?!? I also saw in some inworld shop they were selling avatars of Batman, Superman, and things like that. I thought that things like that weren't legal. Hope I'm not putting anyone on the spot, but I'm curious. Any help, advice, opinions or feedback would be awesome, thanks =) https://marketplace.secondlife.com/listing_guidelines Disallowed Actions The following actions are disallowed. Note that these actions are disallowed by the Second Life Terms of Service, and are restated here for clarification. Listings for Real-World Goods or Services. The SL Marketplace is only for digital content and services that are designed and intended for use with the Second Life virtual world technology. We expressly prohibit the listing or sale of any and all goods or services designed or intended to be delivered in the real world, for example, delivered in person or mailed or shipped to a physical address. If you are selling content through the Second Life Marketplace that is not designed to be used in Second Life, the product should not be listed for sale through the Marketplace web site. If the content is discovered, or reported, to Linden Lab, it will be removed. Regards,Dakota Linden-- Linden LabSL Marketplace Customer Supporthttps://marketplace.secondlife.com/http://www.secondlife.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Scorpio Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Thanks for that clarification Dakota. I thought that I had read that too but I wasn't sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TzunCet Xomotron Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Actually, that STILL doesn't cover digital files... "...delivered in person or mailed or shipped to a physical address" Nothing is being shipped to a "physical" address... "The SL Marketplace is only for digital content and services that are designed and intended for use with the Second Life virtual world technology." The notecard, that would be sold, IS SL content... The notecard, bought and paid for in SL, is SL content, used in SL... It has already been stated that links to files for download IS acceptable and has been done. What it sounds like is being done is allowing only -certain- types of files to be linked to, but that's neither here nor there, the fact that files are linked to from the notecard is the question, I don't see a reason to debate the types of files. It's treading. You can sell notecards, but now you're saying what can and can't be put on the notecard, that's a different case altogether, one could even argue that it touches the 1st amendment, you're (lol, not "you" persay =P) telling me what I can and can't write in the notecard, that doesn't seem fair =/ You can put links in notecards, LL asks that your respect their establisment and not post links to their competitors. People are already putting links to files for download. Is it LL policy to police the types of files that are acceptable? I'm not concerned at all that'd I'd be doing something wrong, the files, mines of course, all legit... Usually, when you place a rule, it is for someones "protection"... I don't see how links to files for download harms LL or the SL experience in any shape, form or fashion. We are already responsible for what we post or exhibit, so I don't think it's a matter of prevention or anti-piracy. I still don't think what I am asking is covered in the guides/rules/policies or even the ToS =/ If so, in that case I would very much like a "revision" of the policy so that it includes what I am asking so there is no confusion, problems, or disrespect in any way. To conclude this, I personally do not see anything wrong w/ the practice..... I can take that a step further and say that just because something is made "legal", does not make it right. Would a revision of policy be so bad in this case?!? Does LL really want to go around tracking and policing notecards to check for whats embedded in them? LL's time would be better spent getting Mesh to go live, don't you think =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Scorpio Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Dakota's post is very clear. You can sell a notecard with a download link, if what is being downloaded is something to be used in SL for SL, such as (as others here have already said) PSD files for clothing and skin templates. You can not sell RL services that is what she is making clear. Since you haven't and will not tell us what exactly it is you want to sell then all the information has been given to you. SL service through notecard - yes RL service through notecard - no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Dakota Linden Posted May 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2011 Greetings! The selling of content, no matter what the type, that is not designed for, nor intended to be used in, the Second Life Virtual World, is not permitted through the Second Life Marketplace. If you wish to sell content of that type, please use Ebay or another web site service that is designed and intended to sell content of that type. Regards,Dakota Linden-- Linden LabSL Marketplace Customer Supporthttps://marketplace.secondlife.com/http://www.secondlife.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TzunCet Xomotron Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 I'd seriously like a revision of that policy, if that is at all possible... There seems to be some level of suspense and drama around "what" I'd be selling, as if to say, "well then, that would be ok"... Sounds like the policy is not as set in stone in that case, and it has already been admitted by one that they paid for services that are not SL related... Was that so bad, spanish mp3's?!? For now, let's keep the suspense, and throw a little benefit of the doubt my way, if the "real" concern is how legit it is what I'd be selling... Fear not, I'm a good guy =) Now the next question, and it's only for my curiousity, WHY can't we?!? Just curious, like what was the story behind having to write that Preparation H should not be taken orally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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