TzunCet Xomotron

You guys should know better than to have a software war, thats old =P It all comes down to the individual, their needs, their tastes, their expectations..... Personally, I too am not too crazy about Blender, but that doesn't mean anything. Blender has a HUGE following (like sheep following the shepard, JUST KIDDING, LOL)... I've always been curious though, how huge that following would bve if it wasn't free. As a "full flavor" 3D program (meaning it models, renders, animates, particle systems, atmospheric effects) for free, you have to admit, that in itself rocks... I've seen more of what Blender can do commercially than the programs of my choice (I use Carrara, Hex, and 3D Coat mostly), so I am somewhat envious in that regards... Hexagon is being offered free for a limited time... You can teach a monkey to model w/ it, but it's ONLY a modeler...

Ok, I see we can't do "custom" non-SL avatar based rigs, but can we at least make a rig of a biped based on the SL joint system to use w/ humanoid bipeds meant to mimic the actions the the SL avatars???

No takers yet eh, thats ok =P Hope I'm not coming off as a Blender hater. I don't hate it (that much =P), I would just prefer to use the programs I already have, know and am comfortable w/, I hope that's understandable... Since I've only tried rigging for SL using Blender, I have no idea how the Max and Maya crew get theirs to work, so I'd like to know if using the rig from the Default SL avatar is a necessity, or can we make custom rigs?!? Say for example, someone makes a t-rex kind of figure w/ short stumpy arms (maybe a tail?!?) that are seriously out of proportions. Is this doable or must all Avatars be humanoid bipeds based on the SL avatar rig? Do figures need to be rigged using weight-maps, meaning "regular" rigs won't work? Just trying to get those custom design avatar parameters learned, to help avoid bad practice, thanks again...

I think I have caught up mostly on the news and ongoings of things, and now that I wanted to pick up where I left off I see that many new tools have been made available, not just related to SL, but 3D Graphics in general... Before my little vacation, I was able to do something of an "autorig" using Blender 2.49. It took a while to learn how to do that, and the installation and hunting of pythons and scripts and files was no fun at all. I had to learn to use Blender, and in all honesty, I guess deep down I just didn't want to incorporate it into any workflow of mines... I wouln't use it to model or texture, just for the rigging... That said, I see that there are quite a few 3D aplications that handle weight map rigging and that also export Collada files... If these Collada files will work in SL is another issue. What I want to know is if there is a "checklist" of sorts, do's and don'ts and practices that MUST be adhered to for a Collada/Mesh file to work properly in SL... Things such as the naming of joints, triangles or quads for the model, do models need to be uvmapped or not, do models need to be "closed" or not, overlapping polys... I'm just throwing random stuff, but I really haven't a clue (and I do know that some of the things I mention whouldn't be part of any "good" model, just listing some examples is all =P) Blender, Max and Maya are all capable of producing working Collada files, but what if someone wants to use another program? I have no way to tell if it's a problem on my end or maybe something I am overlooking in my modeling process, the software, or if the export file just isn't compatible or not, so a checklist would be ideal for locking out problems. Were my previous issues model related, or rigging related?!? If I missed this in a previous post or on the SL Wiki (a link would be awesome) please forgive me, but any advice, ideas, opinions, or past experiences you guys could elaborate on would be GREATLY appreciated, thank you =)

Thank you all for your responses... I've gone thru the posts, difficult to weed out thru the good info, lol, but the links posted here were very helpful. I believe I am up to date now, or at least have the info on how to get up to date. Greatly appreciated, thanks again =)

Thanks for the input, immensely appreciated..... I saw some mention of uploading to the test grid before uploading to the "regular" grid, does this mean the Beta Viewer allows testing of meshes, or do we still use the Mesh Viewer, and if so, I couldn't find a newer verison, just want to check w/ someone else if the version I have is the latest. I haven't played with Blender in a while, but I hope it's an easy "one shot" kind of install, I went bonkers trying to get all the "pieces" for 2.49b. Again, many thanks...

Hello all, hope everything is well as this day finds you... I've been "away" for a very long time, and wanted to get back into things and was hoping someone could help update me, fill me in and confirm a few things... Fist off, these are he versions of SL I currently have on my machine. I had them all update as I loaded, but don't think the Mesh Viewer updated. Versions: Second Life 2.8.1 (236285) Jul 20 2011 11:02:47 (Project Viewer - Mesh) Second Life 3.3.0 (250306) Mar 1 2012 09:01:26 (Second Life Beta Viewer) Second Life 3.3.0 (251182) Mar 15 2012 11:29:12 (Second Life Release) Can someone tell me if there are any new developments w/ regards to Mesh and the software used for it? How is the Collada file working out now? Are people even using Mesh and what is the general "feel" for it? Are people enjoying it or is it still too early to even bother with? Granted I just "got back" and in my short poking arounds I haven't seen much (anything?!?), so your opinions would be golden... Thanks...

We are artists, and it's only a 3D translation/interpretation at best... Cambells soup, you know =/

Thanks for the replies =) Drongle, the collada file mesh I used is mapped. It is mapped and textured, and I had no problems w/ it before. I would simply check the view texture box and it was there... And I did NOT use the LOD feature on any of the attempts. Didn't use it before, but thats moot =P For sure, there was in inconsistency in the value... Actually Rage, what would be nice is if there was a list of fixes and changes as they happen across the newer releases. If you or someone else knows where that is, you could simply point in the direction, I don't think a re-write of everything is necessary. Nalates, I think you hit several points on the button, thanks... I know my SL terminology isn'y up to par, but from what you explain a lot of what I experienced makes sense to me now... But to point out =P I know the test grid Lindens don't transfer, and I know that Aditi isn't a "website", Aditi was in the url when it attempted to log me into the site... For instance we know google.com, but what I saw was aditigoogle.com, but that's no biggie... Just good to know the accounts arent cross-linked in some fashion. I had to do the test twice (admittedly, I disagree w/ some of the answers, but oh well), once on "sl.com" and another time on aditisl.com...................... But I get the jist of it all now, again, many thanks =D

Hello all... I must have been gone longer than I thought, seems I forgot "everything" and need to freshen up, but wanted to get some input from other users... One major thing is that I have a laptop that I installed both the Viewer and Mesh on... I definitely confused myself... I have both on my desktop, and don't recall having concerns. I vaguely remember before that in older to use Mesh and get on the testing grid having to do something w/ my password. I installed Mesh on the laptop, but took advantage of the new sign on grid selection feature, and just used the one name/password I've been using. I connected w/o issue, and when trying to upload a test mesh (something I've done many times before), I was made to "enable" mesh uploads... In preparation of using Mesh, I already enabled it, and this is where my confusion starts... I noticed that when it brought me to the SL site (in a new tab if that matters), my login info was missing, but I have cookies enabled, not to mention I was "already" signed on w/ my acct... I entered my acct info, and it logged me in, no problem. First thing I noticed is that it "flashed" Aditi in the url... Secondly, the amount of Lindens was different... On my desktop when I used Mesh and Viewer, I noticed the inventory and Lindens were diff, but I didn't know there was an "Aditi" SL site as well, if I'm making any sense... I'm confused, and may not be explaining things correctly, but my -question- is is that I want to know if I did anything wrong that I need to fix, or is this normal behavior. This may all very well be paranoia from an **bleep** retentive geek, but if someone could ease my worries, I'd be very grateful =) Also, I notice many changes in the upload screen... My 1st problem here is that the textures on a collada file I have uploaded and used many times before on the test grid, for some reason, the textures are not showing in the preview now (and yes, I have it set to show textures =P). Also, does the collada avatar not move in unison w/ your current avatar anymore?!? For me, that was a simple test of "ok, I see the joints are working even before I upload", but I need to know if it's a problem on my end or the "new normal"... Another thing is that w/ this very same initial test file, there are inconsistent costs... I tried uploading 3 times and saw 2 different costs (in Lindens and prim equiv). Any reason for this? And lastly........ I know that the figure I made has less than 4000 polys. When I check the poly count of the sculpty sphere, that has about 4000, yet, my prim equiv for the collada file in question was 25 prims...... If that's the normal, then ok, but I'm wondering if there is a way to guesstimate prim equiv beforehand... That's a mouthful, I know, but if anyone can help, it would be immensely appreciated =)

Thanks for the info and responses, it is appreciated =) It's hard keeping track, and to be honest, I started slacking, just holding off for when it's "actually" here, and we can go from "practice" to "do", if you can dig me... I did check up on developed pipelines, seems nothing has changed, I suppose that's good news, although I'd like to be able to implement more of my own programs than the Blender way of things... No biggie... Still looking forward to it...

It is now July, and after waiting patiently, I'd like to get back into the swing of things w/ mesh and Collada import support... How is it happening, where and when? What do we need to do? Anywhere to get updated info? There doesn't seem to be any new news at the wiki, and admittedly I myself have not been to the test grid in quite some time. Any new updates? Anything to be aware of?

I'd seriously like a revision of that policy, if that is at all possible... There seems to be some level of suspense and drama around "what" I'd be selling, as if to say, "well then, that would be ok"... Sounds like the policy is not as set in stone in that case, and it has already been admitted by one that they paid for services that are not SL related... Was that so bad, spanish mp3's?!? For now, let's keep the suspense, and throw a little benefit of the doubt my way, if the "real" concern is how legit it is what I'd be selling... Fear not, I'm a good guy =) Now the next question, and it's only for my curiousity, WHY can't we?!? Just curious, like what was the story behind having to write that Preparation H should not be taken orally...

Actually, that STILL doesn't cover digital files... "...delivered in person or mailed or shipped to a physical address" Nothing is being shipped to a "physical" address... "The SL Marketplace is only for digital content and services that are designed and intended for use with the Second Life virtual world technology." The notecard, that would be sold, IS SL content... The notecard, bought and paid for in SL, is SL content, used in SL... It has already been stated that links to files for download IS acceptable and has been done. What it sounds like is being done is allowing only -certain- types of files to be linked to, but that's neither here nor there, the fact that files are linked to from the notecard is the question, I don't see a reason to debate the types of files. It's treading. You can sell notecards, but now you're saying what can and can't be put on the notecard, that's a different case altogether, one could even argue that it touches the 1st amendment, you're (lol, not "you" persay =P) telling me what I can and can't write in the notecard, that doesn't seem fair =/ You can put links in notecards, LL asks that your respect their establisment and not post links to their competitors. People are already putting links to files for download. Is it LL policy to police the types of files that are acceptable? I'm not concerned at all that'd I'd be doing something wrong, the files, mines of course, all legit... Usually, when you place a rule, it is for someones "protection"... I don't see how links to files for download harms LL or the SL experience in any shape, form or fashion. We are already responsible for what we post or exhibit, so I don't think it's a matter of prevention or anti-piracy. I still don't think what I am asking is covered in the guides/rules/policies or even the ToS =/ If so, in that case I would very much like a "revision" of the policy so that it includes what I am asking so there is no confusion, problems, or disrespect in any way. To conclude this, I personally do not see anything wrong w/ the practice..... I can take that a step further and say that just because something is made "legal", does not make it right. Would a revision of policy be so bad in this case?!? Does LL really want to go around tracking and policing notecards to check for whats embedded in them? LL's time would be better spent getting Mesh to go live, don't you think =)

You're right, and that's a very good point, but there IS a magic number out there of inworld vs marketplace sales... One does better than the other, there are many factors and reasons that make people favor one style over the other, that's obvious and understandable, but simply by tracking numbers of sales, who is better is my question... You can break that down even further, if the ratio of inworld vs marketplace is "considerable", that's just something to think about, regardless of where your sales/marketing should focus... I ask, because it is crucial how well inworld sales are for this to work. Let's say, for example inworld sales was 1 to 9, that might hurt, where as if its 1 to 3, thats much better... 3 to 1, now you're talking =) Do people even like buying inworld is a consideration, and how best to cater to them... For my plan, I have to think a bit different, I don't plan on selling prim couches thru download links. I'm also rather new to all this, so I'm still trying to develop a feel of things... But to make doubly sure, is it ok to sell links to downloads? Provided the files are "legit"...

I'm not interested in selling music, lol, that was only an example to get the legalities on the table... You make a good point about my files security, but that holds true for any file, even password protected. Adding the password is only another line of text to be copied/pasted, and as far as the types of files, to be frank, there isn't any real protection. If Microsoft can't stop filesharing, I doubt I'll make any marks in that area. We have to have "faith" that if someone pays for something, they wouldnt want to share it w/ anyone else... But I totally understand your point, has been a long time plague for content creators of digital files all over and ever since... We sum it up like this... If people, good and descent people are going to pay for a product, they won't share it out of respect. The type of person who is going to "steal or copy" files, most likely would not have honestly purchased the product anyway, in short, there is no "real" lo$$ =/ When I was a kid, I wouldn't share my NowLaters... Those bannana and vanilla flavored squares of golden yummy goodness was far too precious to share. Even at ten cents for 5 pieces =P I went over the TOS and don't really see anything "specific" to my issue or the handling, acceptance of files w/ links to offsite files... They ask that we refrain from linking to competitors, which of course I also understand. I don't see an "allowed" catergory, even though I understand that things like files that I do NOT own can not be sold. Please, this is not an issue of me trying to sell other peoples property. It would be to files of my own creation... Just not SL related... I see no where where it states that files MUST relate to SL... It even states in the listing guide that links to personal sites are acceptable... That the "link" is for a download, shouldn't be a problem =/ Now where/how would I state that after the purchase, the person would receive a link to a download?!? CYA's are of course understandable and workable. It's totally accepted and is not an issue. I can go further and say that my for my "target market", this would be a dream... Pay for a link to a download. I don't think that because the product is showcased in a virtual environment it does harm w/ regards to marketing... Do people buy more inworld or thru the Marketplace store? And many thanks for the responses =)

Hello fellow residents and merchants =) I was looking around and couldn't find an answer, don't know if this would be ok or not and wanted to get some feedback on the issues... Can we use items to link to off site websites, or do all links have to pertain to Second Life? Can we use notecards (or by whatever inworld means) to send links to files for download (of course provided the files are ours and legit)? Can we charge for such items?!? For instance, I'm a musician, and I made a music "cd" (cd's are just files right? or do we refer to them as audio files now?!?)... I want to sell my cd thru an inworld store, but what I'd really be doing is selling a link to the actual files. Is this acceptable?!? I also saw in some inworld shop they were selling avatars of Batman, Superman, and things like that. I thought that things like that weren't legal. Hope I'm not putting anyone on the spot, but I'm curious. Any help, advice, opinions or feedback would be awesome, thanks =)

A W E S O M E =D Thanks...

I read a few threads/posts on people abandoning thier homes, but didn't see if what I am asking is possible... I want to abandon my Linden home, purchase 512m on Mainland, and bypass any tier fee, as I am still only at my 512m allotment... Is the 512m allotment ONLY for Linden homes, or can we apply it to any other place we buy?!? What if I buy from a realtor? Would I still owe them their tier fee, or does that go to Linden direct?!? My apologies if this has been asked and answered, but any help or infor would be greatly appreciated...

If you read carefully, this is sounding more and more like an issue w/ SL's end of how they handle their server, not really anything against the Mesh Viewer or content creators. This is an advancement in technology, and a grand opportunity to enhance the quality of the Second Life user experience, I say we look to the future and embrace it =) Any idea that custom designed models will be more expensive to the server is unfair... Modelers can make very dense models, or very Low Resolution models, that's a choice of the individual, not a strike against Mesh View... All this talk of how prims are better, my first impression w/o evening knowing about SL was "wow, that's a pretty dense cube" =/ It'll be a blast.... A walkthrough of visual eyecandy.

I have seen especially w/ regards to the simplebot.dae that it will reduce the polycount. This is w/o the use of LOD, it just imports at varying amounts of polys. Maybe I'm doing someyhing to the export, will double check, but your response alerts me that I am the culprit. I too figured out that for clothing items to work, they will have to be based on the rig of the actual avatar. The simplebot .cr2 however is based on the relative "shape" of SL avatar. If that were to work, it "should" work for clothes... Should, being the operative word =P I went to the page you linked me too to get the joint names and saw that we can access the files, but that code type stuff is way over my head. I would love to have the actual, official files from Linden, but I didn't follow their instructions on extracting them from the site...

I honestly, really did try, but just can not get around the interface. I have not gone ballistic and uninstalled just yet =P Trying to be patient... I am going to try to customize the ui, maybe that will help. I'm not the only one who has this dislike fr Blender, I think just as many people like it as people who dont... I'm hoping Carrara to be my best option, but I think for Carrara to transfer weight map jointing, the bones need to be native Carrara joints, and then, supposedly, the Collada export should work. Should, being the operative word, lol... All that means is that I wasted my efforts rigging the Poser figure =P Only took a "few" minutes, just copied a pre-existing rig and used some scripts to change the names of the bones. Does the Mesh View upload reduce the density of meshes?!? Does it alter the geometry in any way?!? Did the people at SL actually provide a joint rig, or are "we" expected to make the community standard?!? Are the avatar.blend and simplebot.dae the official files for this workflow?!?

Sega Master System or XBox Kinect?!? It's going to be alot of fun, place a little faith in content creators =D

Mesh is the future. You're not holding on to your 8 tracks are you =P I do not think it will be half as bad as you think. I'm new here, but as a content creator I can assure you, we always have your best interests in mind, especially in the design and creation process. Creators have full control over the density and resolution of our products, and believe me when I say quality of products is by no means measured in polycount. The creative freedom to design w/o the restriction of prims is a godsend, and I really think you will enjoy the experience. The quality of Second Life "life" will increase exponentially... It's a simple fix really. All that needs be done is impose poly limits, not a problem... Merchants can also be -enforced- to advertise polycount on their products, the same way McDonalds needs to exhibit calories next to their Big Mac =D If I'm not mistaken, textures are 512x512 regardless, the only real issue is polycount. Impose restrictions for different types of products, Content Creators will be more than please to comply... Dense meshes don't mix in the "video game" scene, we already know that. It's actually a challenge to use less to get more. We look forward to the challenge...

I hope that what I am doing is "ok", if not, please delete this post and I will surely delete the file =/ It's just for testing/practicing sake, not making money (or even Lindens =P) w/ the file... I've made no public announcement of the file, but hope it will serve all our sakes and purposes during this beta process. What I did for Poser users is I took the simplebot.dae, extracted the geometry, and rigged a full figure for it in Poser making a complete .cr2. This .cr2 can be opened, used and further edited in Poser, Daz Studio and even Carrara. The figure was set using the SL joint naming system, however I did not add the eyes or the toes, seriously hoping it's not the problem. It shouldnt be, if someone designs socks, in theory they shoulnt need to save the head or arms w/ the figure file, so I think it's best to get it to work under that premise (not to mention I'm a lazy as hell capricorn)... I "tried" exporting a collada file from the .cr2 from all 3 programs, no luck at all =/ Sometimes it would cause an instant crash of the viewer. Sometimes it would load and you can see the geometry, apply joint and weights, but see no movement of the mesh. If you simply rezz the object (hope I said that right, being the noob =P), it will load in-world at a descent proportion to the avatar. I'm sure you've seen the actual file floating about in the sandboxes, and it is HUGE. I wonder if size/scaling of the geometry has anything to do w/ it. I've seen avatar sized meshes in the sandbox that when worn work correctly, so I wowuld "assume" not, but............ Anyways, a .cr2 for Poser users to test is a great thing, I hope we can get a Collada file for figures w/ rigging to work, would be awesome. If it's an issue in the rigging, an issue w/ how the .dae exports, or w/ how the Viewer likes Poser, Studio or Carrara files, the world may never know =P >>> simplebot Poser .cr2 file <<< That said, I can't stress how much I loathe Blender. I have been avoiding it for about 10 years (yeah, I'm old, shut up) and surely don't plan to incorporate it into my workflow now... In all fairness, and out of serious desperation to try to get things going w/ regards to custom avatars, I spent 1 day with it... Half of the day went into trying to get the stable version, and all python/scripts/plugins working. Even still, I don't know for certain if I have it installed correctly, that's another variable/obstable in this whole mess I don't need. Took a few more hours watching and practicing w/ various online tutorials and made "some" progress... Spent an hour trying to figure out how to pan in the view mode, FRUSTRATING to say the least =/ spent a few more hours trying to follow the mesh overview tutorial at MachiniMatrix... I tried doing the arm piece, coulnt manuever thru the UI and jumped off a cliff. Tried testing the dress in the same fashion, and then was unable to select the dress after having "rigged" it. It would move w/ the bones, but was unselectable, so I couldnt export it to SL =/ Blender just is NOT going to work for me, I need other options.....