Medhue Simoni Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Caitlin Tobias wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Caitlin Tobias wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Really, unless LL pays me, I have no intention to give feedback, other than "your crap doesn't work". I rest my case. And it's my whole point. I don't care if I get in there. I have a very full plate. That said, I'm very confident that others will be able to point out LL's mistakes to them. I wasn't the only person telling CP their rig was screwed up. But..... if all LL has is 5 people testing their crap, then I have no hope for the new platform. Mhm..sure. Heck, I don't even know if I will sell items in the new world. Ebbe has yet to tell us how much they are going to tax the consumers for buying our stuff. If it is too high, I'll just sell everything from my website and only full perm items. Other platforms, like Unreal, understand that putting a tax on consumption will only produce less things for people to buy, equating to less profits, and less exposure. The creators and merchants are a platforms best friend, not another source to squeeze money out of. And seriously, Ebbe says in the transcript that the new avatar skeleton is complex. Why is it complex? Rigs aren't really complex. They are just bones. I'm hoping he said complex because he has never dealt with a rig. Plus, LL still has the same TOS, which is completely incompatible with professional creators, and they don't seem to care much about it. Unity and Unreal do not claim to own anything I made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: Plus, LL still has the same TOS, which is completely incompatible with professional creators, and they don't seem to care much about it. Unity and Unreal do not claim to own anything I made. Why does LL need a new TOS now, in order to accommodate a new platform that is some months from going into alpha testing and will probably not be rolled out until, at the very earliest, the end of the year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Innula Zenovka wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Plus, LL still has the same TOS, which is completely incompatible with professional creators, and they don't seem to care much about it. Unity and Unreal do not claim to own anything I made. Why does LL need a new TOS now, in order to accommodate a new platform that is some months from going into alpha testing and will probably not be rolled out until, at the very earliest, the end of the year? Well, I don't assume that I know things that others do not. If I'm doing something, it's likely that others saw the same thing, and are doing it also. Ever since the initial TOS change, I've not made much of anything in SL, nor have I encouraged many creators to build in SL. Why should I do any of that, when I can just create for Unity, Daz, Unreal, CryEngine, IMVU, or any of the other places I can create for, that don't claim ownership of items I made? Heck, just the contract jobs alone that I get for Unity, Daz, and Unreal are far more than what I make in SL, and those people sign a mutual contract that we both agreed on, or I have total say in the contract. Never does the other side tell me what my rights will be. Well, unless it's huge money. Most of the time, they pay me very well, and I can immediately put what I made them on my website to sell to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LlazarusLlong Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: Ebbe has yet to tell us how much they are going to tax the consumers for buying our stuff. What makes you think he is going to tax the consumers? It's much more efficient to collect value added tax from suppliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 LlazarusLlong wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Ebbe has yet to tell us how much they are going to tax the consumers for buying our stuff. What makes you think he is going to tax the consumers? It's much more efficient to collect value added tax from suppliers. A tax is always a tax on the consumer. It doesn't matter where they collect it from. It is always the consumer that actually pays the tax, not the suppliers. What will likely happen is that LL will tax at the time of purchase tho, in which the tax is obviously paid by the consumer. This is why taxes are dumb. They are a con. If LL wants or needs to make more money, then I can literally think of thousands of things they could do, that benefit merchants, which they and I would gladly pay for. The sad part, is that nobody at LL is creative enough to think up these things, or they are too lazy to make them. Taxing the consumers is just easier than offering services that people will gladly pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LlazarusLlong Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: tax is always a tax on the consumer. Agreed, unless it's payroll tax, or various other governmental legalised theft transfers. Medhue Simoni wrote: It doesn't matter where they collect it from. Oh, but it does. Administratively, a transaction tax is a nightmare, and potentially avoidable. Taxing aggregated receipts is much simpler and more reliable, particularly if you are going to have to "register" to be able to make sales, which seems likely under the new order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 My max limit is 15%, but that is as high as I will go. If LL goes higher than that, I will not be selling in the new world, at least, not thru LL. This is why I set up my website. Daz charges 50%. Unity charges 30%, Renderosity charges 50%. Unreal is really the only 3D marketplace that doesn't charge, so I will likely try to get on their Marketplace, which is only a few months old. I don't think Sketchfab charges, besides their pro feature, but those are just models. I don't mind LL's 5%, but really, anything more is abusive, and not productive for anyone. Really, LL needs to hire a real economist. They seriously do everything backwards. Listen to Ebbe. He knows his product is outrageously expensive and over priced, yet he does nothing about that. Everyone knows SL is over priced. LL doesn't even consider lowering the price. Here is a clue to LL. When you lower the price of something, people will generally buy more of it. So, you don't usually lose much, if any, and most of the time, you gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Just in case LL is listening, I'll talk more about why I don't spend much time making things for SL anymore. Don't get me wrong, if everything worked, I'd rather create for SL over any other platform. I can't tho, cause everything is broken. You basically can't make anything in SL without working around numerous bugs, all of which have been a problem in SL for a good 7 years. Being primarily an animator, it's the many bugs in the animation system that frustrate me more than anything. Outside of the bugs, even today, SL probably has the best animation system out there, which says alot when you compare it to Unity, Unreal and whatnot. The bugs make it useless tho. Technically, every single looping animation uploaded is destroyed by the uploader. Most people just don't notice because the bug isn't as visible on human rigs. On animals tho, or any animation that puts your avatar near the ground, the bug is glaringly obvious. LL has allowed this bug to go on for over 7 years. Oh, I have tried, many, many, many times to get these bugs fixed, but LL just doesn't give a crap. It's like banging my head against a wall. This is why I'm very skeptical about the new world. If LL takes this same approach with bugs, the new world will fail. Why would any creator put up with that? Over at Unity, if I do a bug report, it gets addressed, and really there aren't many bugs in their animation system. In the 2 years I've been creating for their platform, I have only seen 2 obscure bugs in the animation system, both of which have been addressed. Over at Unreal, I have yet to see any major bugs in the animation system. I forget if it was Oz or Ebbe who mentioned this, but 1 of them said something about adding bones to the SL rig. I don't remember exactly, but it had to do with the SL skeleton. So, we have Oz and the CEO talking about advancing a rig, which is littered with bugs. Yeah, don't fix the bugs, just add more bones and call it a day. Just like Fitted mesh was half-a$$ed, now LL will half-a$$edly just add bones. Yes, I am insulting, but this is a product of bugs being ignored for 7 years. I never need to insult any other programmers, because they see the error of their ways and understand that I am their customer. They understand that I am trying to help them. Last week, I even had a Unity dev mention me in a forum post as someone who might be able to help the person, which I did. LL thinks we are just here to annoy them, and we make jiras for imaginary things. This is why I create for Unity and Unreal more now, and I'm very skeptical about LL's new world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 I have to correct myself. I was just on Unreal's Marketplace and reading the info and they are charging 30% on their website. So, I will not even attempt to sell on there. My website does very well, and all I really have to do is just tag things with UE or Unreal for people to find me. Plus, Unreal is very open about allowing anyone to post links to their UE products on their forums. Unity is the same way, and when I post on the Unity forums, I do get a very good amount of traffic from it, so I can probably assume the same for Unreal, given their numbers. Like I said too tho, it doesn't hurt me, cause I can charge less, and still make more than I would have on their Marketplaces. On their Marketplaces, they have a system, much like Youtube, where you only get paid at the end of the month, and only if you made over $100. So, selling on my own site is another bonus, cause I get paid right away. At the most, some purchases take 3 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 about tax on online services generally + within the next decade all income cashed out of online sites will pretty much be subject to Withholding Tax So minus Commission to siteholder 30-50%. Then at least 25% of the 70-50% remainder be withheld and given direct to the RL taxman. Then will have to fill in the forms to be able to include this in your RL tax return. Same like you do with other income subject to withholding unless you a tax-registered business then the Withholding tax dont apply. However RL sales tax (VAT/GST/etc) on top of the siteholder commission payments will then apply most likely edit add: or both even maybe + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LlewLlwyd Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 irihapeti wrote: about tax on online services generally + within the next decade all income cashed out of online sites will pretty much be subject to Withholding Tax So minus Commission to siteholder 30-50%. Then at least 25% of the 70-50% remainder be withheld and given direct to the RL taxman. Then will have to fill in the forms to be able to include this in your RL tax return. Same like you do with other income subject to withholding unless you a tax-registered business then the Withholding tax dont apply. However RL sales tax (VAT/GST/etc) on top of the siteholder commission payments will then apply most likely edit add: or both even maybe + ANTIPODEAN attitudes to online activity - including, or perhaps, especially tax, do not apply to many other jurisdictions. ***Nor are they likely to*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 irihapeti wrote: about tax on online services generally + within the next decade all income cashed out of online sites will pretty much be subject to Withholding Tax So minus Commission to siteholder 30-50%. Then at least 25% of the 70-50% remainder be withheld and given direct to the RL taxman. Then will have to fill in the forms to be able to include this in your RL tax return. Same like you do with other income subject to withholding unless you a tax-registered business then the Withholding tax dont apply. However RL sales tax (VAT/GST/etc) on top of the siteholder commission payments will then apply most likely edit add: or both even maybe + This is also why selling on your own site is preferable. I've actually registered last year, just cause there is no benefit anymore to not register your business. It's sad that people have forgotten what freedom is, and continue to think that using force and stealing from people can bring prosperity. The higher LL makes the tax, the less economic activity will go on. LL's tax will literally take money out of the economy, when leaving it in the economy would generate much more value than the tax ever could. Anybody that knows me, knows that I'm a very hardcore Anarcho-Capitalist. I'm very much for people or companies making money, but not when force is used. A true capitalist knows that only voluntary exchange can produce wealth. Taxes are not a capitalist tool, it's a totalitarian tool. Taxes are what simple minded people with no creativity use, because they convince themselve, it is the only way. The reality is, it's just the easiest way. The rulers don't consider that the tax is counter productive. LL, being the creators of these world, has many options for making money. Why, or how, they can't think these things up, is totally baffling to me. What about supplying us with a server farm to hold all our game data, when we do make games? HELLO! What about better Marketing tools we could pay for? What about letting us make commercials and post them on their Youtube channel. LL really doesn't even use it. With apps, like LL talked about, LL could provide all kinds of services, beyond what the users make. Personally, after looking at how so many of these worlds, and even engines work, and the supply of different specialized skilled people, I think LL should make and sell code for the new world. Yeah, I know I'm likely pissing off a bunch of coders, but IMHO, if you want fast growth, and clean code, then that is the avenue they should take. Look around in SL. We have, literally, 10s of thousands of artists, but only maybe a thousand competent coders. Yes, many people have learned to code on their own, but those people aren't going to be making super complex code. Every world has this problem too, and all are trying to devise ways to make coding easier. Microsoft's Sparks project is using this symbol node like system for kids to make games. Unreal has a node system for creating code, and even Unity has node systems for code. Coding is the bottleneck. So, if I were LL, I would dedicate a small group of coders at LL to actually write game code for the new world. If I were LL, I would create full games, with network support, and then charge creators to use the system to create their own games. With the core of the game system created by LL, we can then alter or add to that code to customize our games. This is kind of already going on in Unity and Unreal. People are writing full game code, putting it on the marketplace, and people just take that and make their own game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: A true capitalist knows that only voluntary exchange can produce wealth. is not quite true this. I can produce wealth by enslaving you you the slave just dont get any share of it other than enough food to get you thru the day. Except for when slaves are cheaper to obtain than the cost of the food needed to sustain them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: Personally, after looking at how so many of these worlds, and even engines work, and the supply of different specialized skilled people, I think LL should make and sell code for the new world. Yeah, I know I'm likely pissing off a bunch of coders, but IMHO, if you want fast growth, and clean code, then that is the avenue they should take. Look around in SL. We have, literally, 10s of thousands of artists, but only maybe a thousand competent coders. Yes, many people have learned to code on their own, but those people aren't going to be making super complex code. Every world has this problem too, and all are trying to devise ways to make coding easier. Microsoft's Sparks project is using this symbol node like system for kids to make games. Unreal has a node system for creating code, and even Unity has node systems for code. Coding is the bottleneck. So, if I were LL, I would dedicate a small group of coders at LL to actually write game code for the new world. If I were LL, I would create full games, with network support, and then charge creators to use the system to create their own games. With the core of the game system created by LL, we can then alter or add to that code to customize our games. This is kind of already going on in Unity and Unreal. People are writing full game code, putting it on the marketplace, and people just take that and make their own game. i pick up on this part the goal of a coder is to make themself obsolete to reach a point where scripting (as we know and practise it today) is redundant Ebbe Linden mentioned this in his speech. He was talking about wizards the most wizard-like thing in SL currently is a gesture. Is a description list (a order of actions) that the creator of the gesture wants to happen + in the new world is going to be lots of these kinds of things. Each object will have properties that can be set at designtime. That can be triggered to change by Touch/sit/bump,teleport etc. Action lists of property changes that can be triggered also. Triggered even by other actions and interactions with other objects edit typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 LlewLlwyd wrote: irihapeti wrote: about tax on online services generally + within the next decade all income cashed out of online sites will pretty much be subject to Withholding Tax So minus Commission to siteholder 30-50%. Then at least 25% of the 70-50% remainder be withheld and given direct to the RL taxman. Then will have to fill in the forms to be able to include this in your RL tax return. Same like you do with other income subject to withholding unless you a tax-registered business then the Withholding tax dont apply. However RL sales tax (VAT/GST/etc) on top of the siteholder commission payments will then apply most likely edit add: or both even maybe + ANTIPODEAN attitudes to online activity - including, or perhaps, especially tax, do not apply to many other jurisdictions. ***Nor are they likely to*** hah !!! sez you Mervyn Withholding tax, like payroll tax, is the most efficient way to extract tax money out of people. Like you get your hands on the money before they ever get it. Then make it really complicated for them to get it back off you getting your hands on the money before anyone else does (and then making it really complicated for others to prise it back from you) is what makes the taxman sleep well at night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 irihapeti wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: A true capitalist knows that only voluntary exchange can produce wealth. is not quite true this. I can produce wealth by enslaving you you the slave just dont get any share of it other than enough food to get you thru the day. Except for when slaves are cheaper to obtain than the cost of the food needed to sustain them Maybe I should have said, "wealth for all people involved". Plus, you are only maginally right. Slaves don't have much of an incentive to work, and the only way you can have slaves, is if it is support by the state. The extra cost to catch runaways, diminishes any profit. If government catches the slaves for you, and the slave have no hope for escape, then there can be marginal wealth creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 i give a example of this a engine there is a component (a rezzable object / a prim) called say llEngine you rez it inworld and then link your mesh model to it then rightclick on it to bring up its properties in the Property Editor. All of the parameters that are currently coded in llVehicle script are exposed as properties. You just set them to whichever. Sit on your vehicle and off you go even things like acceleration, turn, etc can be set as properties. Example LVehicle.Power. .Foward .Max: 100 .Min: 5 .Increment: 4 .TriggerKey: [KEY_UP] .Reverse .Max: 20 .Min: 1 .Increment: 2 .TriggerKey: [KEY_DOWN] .Left .Max: 30 .Min: 5 .Increment: 6 (degrees) .TriggerKey: [KEY_LEFT] .Right .Up .Down .... .Brake .DeadStop: TRUE (or FALSE) .TriggerKey: [KEY_UP && KEY_DOWN] etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 irihapeti wrote: i pick up on this part the goal of a coder is to make themself obsolete to reach a point where scripting (as we know and practise it today) is redundant Ebbe Linden mentioned this in his speech. He was talking about wizards the most wizard-like thing in SL currently is a gesture. Is a description list (a order of actions) that the creator of the gesture wants to happen + in the new world is going to be lots of these kinds of things. Each object will have properties that can be set at designtime. That can be triggered to change by Touch/sit/bump,teleport etc. Action lists of property changes that can be triggered also. Triggered even by other actions and interactions with other objects edit typo I think obsolete is the wrong word, cause I think that is almost impossible. There is always new code to be created. To me tho, it doesn't make sense for thousands of people to all write the same code, constantly recreating the wheel. Really tho, I'm just dreaming. That's all we can do with a company that thinks secrets benefit them. Who does LL think cares what they are doing, besides us, their customers? You know, the funny thing is, everyone else, I know what's going on a year in advance. You almost can't keep track, as they give us so much info. I knew all about the changes to Unity's new Mecanim animations system way before they implemented it. Even the massive upgrade we just got, I knew all about it 8 months ago. I can find out what they are working on next too. Same goes for Unreal. Blender always has a roadmap. To a creator, running a business, this is a must. When the company tells you nothing at all, why even think about them? How can any of us plan ahead at all? Ebbe gave us some vague dates, and admit outright that all their friends that use this specific software will have a huge advantage, and possibly the only software that will work at all, at least for some other vague amount of time. I think for me, I have to just ignore LL, and concentrate on the companies that actually understand what it's like to truly be partners with their community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: irihapeti wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: A true capitalist knows that only voluntary exchange can produce wealth. is not quite true this. I can produce wealth by enslaving you you the slave just dont get any share of it other than enough food to get you thru the day. Except for when slaves are cheaper to obtain than the cost of the food needed to sustain them Maybe I should have said, "wealth for all people involved". Plus, you are only maginally right. Slaves don't have much of an incentive to work, and the only way you can have slaves, is if it is support by the state. The extra cost to catch runaways, diminishes any profit. If government catches the slaves for you, and the slave have no hope for escape, then there can be marginal wealth creation. for the State to do this (like catch our slaves for us) then is a cost. So we back to the issue of tax or can say that the State shouldnt tax us slave owners. We just pay the State agents when they catch the slave for us or can say that in this case then we dont need any State. Without a State then we can have as many slaves as we want. If any give us more trouble then what they worth then we can just kill them. Will set a good example that for our other slaves And if they are valuable and run away then can just pay somebody else to catch them for us and bring them back to us. We probably need some rules/laws about this as well. Like if a slave runs off to next door then the next door neighbour cant just keep our slave just bc they are now in possession of it and bc we dont need any State then we can not call the institution we set up to administer the rules/laws a State. Can maybe just call it a Guild. Like the Guild of Freemen or something noble like that. Probably have to pay some fees to the Guild as well. Like to at least pay for the hall we have our meetings in. Meetings to discuss, debate whatever the rules are going to be + nobody has to belong to the Guild of Freemen if they dont want. But if they gives us any trouble then we most likely make war on them rather than have to go out and shoot them ourselves each time then be more efficient to hire some people to fight in our army for us. Will have to pay for that as well. We could pay them direct ourselves like each Freeman can pay for his own guys. Like his own private army maybe. Then out of the goodness of our hearts we can lend our army guys to the common cause assuming that we agree that we do have a common cause. Like we might decide that we dont have a common cause today with our neighbour on the left of us. So we join with our neighbour on the right and crush that left guy. Not that we take any pleasure from this. Is just something we have to do sometimes if we are to sustain our own way of life according to our own choosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 you not dreaming as the times go by then users retreat further and further from code coders dont retreat. Users do like if go back a few years to create say a animation then had to write a script to do this. Now there are visual tools that allow you to do this. Is same for mesh creation. Visual tools now instead of scripting. Same printing text documents. Once upon a time used to have to write a script to print even the simplest document + what you envisage is coming to 3D as well. Hopefully LL is going to the company that makes it real. If only so that SL will not be swept away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 irihapeti wrote: like if go back a few years to create say a animation then had to write a script to do this. Now there are visual tools that allow you to do this. Is same for mesh creation. Visual tools now instead of scripting. Same printing text documents. Once upon a time used to have to write a script to print even the simplest document That is a great point! irihapeti wrote: what you envisage is coming to 3D as well. Hopefully LL is going to the company that makes it real. If only so that SL will not be swept away SL will be around for quite a few more years, at the very least. Given the vague timeline LL has given, even basic functionality seems to be over a year away. To get anything close to what is now possible, outside of content creation, will be a few years, at best. I kind of feel like people have forgotten the major problems we've had over the years. At 1 point, we had to almost demand that LL not update code on thrusdays or fridays, because they could not figure this out on their own, despite the millions of dollars they were losing every time they ruined a full weekend of sales with their buggy code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwine Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 We will have to see what the new product they are working on will be like, but from what has been said I can't see much excitement going there from the sailing and piloting community if there is no mainland to explore and to cross between regions you need to find a "gateway". 1024m regions would be great for car and bike racing and by building roads up in to the sky like is done already could be great for exploring and cruising... but all the same the loss of continuity between regions is a major downside. It might be big enough to make warbug dogfights fun, or pirate naval battles. But really this is two steps forwards and one step back. Alot of the money that goes in to SL is for coastal sims. Loss of mainland and proper crossing between sims will have a huge impact on interest in taking up the new platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Medhue Simoni wrote: irihapeti wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: A true capitalist knows that only voluntary exchange can produce wealth. is not quite true this. I can produce wealth by enslaving you you the slave just dont get any share of it other than enough food to get you thru the day. Except for when slaves are cheaper to obtain than the cost of the food needed to sustain them Maybe I should have said, "wealth for all people involved". Plus, you are only maginally right. Slaves don't have much of an incentive to work, and the only way you can have slaves, is if it is support by the state. The extra cost to catch runaways, diminishes any profit. If government catches the slaves for you, and the slave have no hope for escape, then there can be marginal wealth creation. Please define "government" as you're using it. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries it was routine for large companies to run their own communities around their factories/companies - they had their own company stores, security forces, etc. They could function largely independently of the legal government of the areas they were located in. Were these companies simply highly successful in the market (good), or were they controlling, oppressive governments (bad)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LlewLlwyd Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 irihapeti wrote: hah !!! sez you Mervyn Withholding tax, like payroll tax, is the most efficient way to extract tax money out of people. Like you get your hands on the money before they ever get it. Then make it really complicated for them to get it back off you getting your hands on the money before anyone else does (and then making it really complicated for others to prise it back from you) is what makes the taxman sleep well at night MERVYN King, recent ex-Governor of the Bank of England, was actually one of my tutors in college, and although his speciality in those days was The Theory of the Firm (along with Aston Villa AFC and Catherine Deneuve) his attitude to corporate tax would also (or even more so) be applicable to less formal jurisdictions; it was simply that withholding tax drove activity underground. Barter, black markets, and "gift" economies replaced a monitorable marketplace. Another of his arguments was that such schemes were expensive to enforce against those who wished to avoid, using legal loopholes, remitting what they had legally collected - the UK Inland Revenue at one point in the 1970s was spending more administratively on collecting tax from the FTSE 100 than the actual amount of tax they were paid. ***Focusing on virtual business is nowhere in the sights of HMCE; obstacles of practicality, legality and triviality - to say nothing of cost - mean that they will continue to concentrate on the bigger fish they have to fry*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Theresa Tennyson wrote: Please define "government" as you're using it. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries it was routine for large companies to run their own communities around their factories/companies - they had their own company stores, security forces, etc. They could function largely independently of the legal government of the areas they were located in. Were these companies simply highly successful in the market (good), or were they controlling, oppressive governments (bad)? Government is basically whomever has the power to legally use force, and aggression against people in a geographic area. The distinction between what is good or bad, at least to me, is whether or not force is being used. The difference between rape and loving sex, is force. The difference between theft and charity, is force. Using force, is the opposite to convincing someone, and having good debates. Every tax, regulation, license, and so on, is 1 side using force, instead of reasoned debate to convince people to give willingly for something. If all government taxes and regulations were voluntary, then they would not be evil. Just cause they are voluntary, doesn't mean there will be chaos. If your government regulates that business, and it was voluntary, then that business would get a government seal of approval, and people would know that this business is complying with government regulations. If a business deems that a regulation is unwarranted, they could just ignore it and not get that government approval. People could make up their own minds. This already goes on in many areas, by private businesses like the UL sticker on most appliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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