Faster SL With Higher Draw Distance

[Maxim Ouachita]

Second Life runs usually faster with a minimum of draw distance. But this video shows the opposite. A minimum of draw distance often result in a bad frame rate... From http://janicouachita.blogspot.com/2014/05/secrets-of-second-life-tipp-of-day.html

[Perrie Juran]

I'm unable to duplicate your "OFTEN" experience.

[arton Rotaru]

The video doesn't show Second Life as is. It shows Second Life with a third party viewer. So it should at least say that Second Life viewed with certain third party viewers may give such a result.

I cannot reproduce this with a official Linden viewer.

[Perrie Juran]

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arton Rotaru wrote:

The video doesn't show Second Life as is. It shows Second Life with a third party viewer. So it should at least say that Second Life viewed with certain third party viewers may give such a result.

I cannot reproduce this with a official Linden viewer.

---

Good point.  My original test was with the Official Viewer also.  I just tried with Firestorm and am unable to duplicate this "OFTEN" phenomenon either.

Really, what I consider his post to be is a SPAM post in order to promote his Web Site.

It's nice that he wants to help but unfortunately in times past he has posted enough inaccurate information for me to not deem him a reliable source for help.

May I suggest Maxim that you stick with doing what you do best, making Machinamas.

 

[Ren Toxx]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I'm unable to duplicate your "OFTEN" experience.

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Neither am I. For me, too, it works as expected: framerate is inversely proportional to draw distance regardless of ALM mode.

[Perrie Juran]

Adding on here, one of the problems here with what Maxim has done is that there is no technical research or background into why this is happenning to HIM.

It could be a KNOWN BUG with the Viewer.

If it is not a known bug then a JIRA should be filed with Firestorm if the frame rate is dropping and staying there because this would NOT be expected behaviour.  (A momentary drop would NOT be unexpected.)

Additionally, it should be checked with the official viewer and if it is occuring with that then a JIRA should be filed with LL also.

This is why these help Videos fall short.  IF Maxim is doing his homework he certainly is not showing it to us.

 ETA: Clarity

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Adding on here, one of the problems here with what Maxim has done is that there is no technical research or background into

why

this is happenning to HIM.

It could be a KNOWN BUG with the Viewer.

If it is not a known bug then a JIRA should be filed with Firestorm

because this is NOT expected behaviour.

Additionally, it should be checked with the official viewer and if it is occuring with that then a JIRA should be filed with LL also.

This is why these help Videos fall short.  IF Maxim is doing his homework he certainly is not showing it to us.

 

---

I suspect it has something to do with his not changing the camera angle. The viewer will always speed up if all the information in view stays the same for a while - when he reduced the draw distance he forced the viewer to temporarily do more work un-drawing things so it slowed down for a while. Also, the particular scene he used has very little information in the far background so draw distance isn't a major factor because of the lack of things to draw.

(Okay, shouldn't say this but can't help it after listening to the vocals on that video - THIS is what happens when do-gooders say that monsters eat too many cookies and should find another schtick.)

[Perrie Juran]

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

Adding on here, one of the problems here with what Maxim has done is that there is no technical research or background into

why

this is happenning to HIM.

It could be a KNOWN BUG with the Viewer.

If it is not a known bug then a JIRA should be filed with Firestorm

because this is NOT expected behaviour.

Additionally, it should be checked with the official viewer and if it is occuring with that then a JIRA should be filed with LL also.

This is why these help Videos fall short.  IF Maxim is doing his homework he certainly is not showing it to us.

 

---

I suspect it has something to do with his not changing the camera angle. The viewer will always speed up if all the information in view stays the same for a while - when he reduced the draw distance he forced the viewer to temporarily do more work un-drawing things so it slowed down for a while. Also, the particular scene he used has very little information in the far background so draw distance isn't a major factor because of the lack of things to draw.

(Okay, shouldn't say this but can't help it after listening to the vocals on that video - THIS is what happens when do-gooders say that monsters eat too many cookies and should find another schtick.)

---

I suspected the same as you but was unable when I tested to duplicate though I'm fairly sure I've seen this happen.

The video is very short....it doesn't show what happens ten or fifteen seconds after he changes his draw distance.

He is insinuating with this video that the frame rate is dropping and staying there.

I am going to edit my post to read, "if the frame rate is dropping and staying there a JIRA needs to be filed."  A momentary drop would NOT be unexpected.

Regardless, he is not doing his homework very well.

 

 

 

[Yasmin Murfin]

I think Perrie is suffering from major depression.

[Perrie Juran]

 

---

Yasmin Murfin wrote:

I think Perrie is suffering from major depression.

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Thank you for the comic relief.

[Yasmin Murfin]

This image reflects you perfectly. 

[Kickedyourbutt]

This topic does make sense. Sort of.

I know when i install a new viewer for the first time or update it.. My graphics are turned up and I'm speeding along pretty well..

Once I start collecting textures and iventory cache and other items, My speed starts slowing down so i have to lower my graphics. But i do see what you are saying.

[Perrie Juran]

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Yasmin Murfin wrote:

This image reflects you perfectly. 

---

it does reflect accurately the look on my face when i innitially read your post

but after spewing all those feathers i am grinning now.

 

[Maxim Ouachita]

Thank you for your answers.

arton Rotaru: Very useful hint. The title was edited and the description was extended with viewer and system informations.

Perrie Juran: Thankful for your compliment about Machinamas. This phenomenon was found while optimizing a system for Machinamas. Unfortunately there is no time to go deeper and make a intensive check. Not at this time. Everyone who wants to do homeworks I didn't do is invited to do so. The test specifications are written in the description.

Theresa Tennyson: Cookies are so tasty. There is temporarily more work, but this phenomenon appears permanently.

Yasmin Murfin: I love your locomotive.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Maxim Ouachita wrote:

Thank you for your answers.

arton Rotaru: Very useful hint. The title was edited and the description was extended with viewer and system informations.

Perrie Juran: Thankful for your compliment about Machinamas. This phenomenon was found while optimizing a system for Machinamas. Unfortunately there is no time to go deeper and make a intensive check. Not at this time. Everyone who wants to do homeworks I didn't do is invited to do so. The test specifications are written in the description.

Theresa Tennyson: Cookies are so tasty. There is temporarily more work, but this phenomenon appears permanently.

Yasmin Murfin: I love your locomotive.

---

I did a little more testing am have been unable to duplicate your results.

You are presenting this as a TIP OF THE DAY.

From your Blog post with this video:

"Second Life runs faster with the maximum of your Firestorm (v4.4.2.34167) viewers draw distance. Get the best out of your computer and watch this amazing news of the day:"

In your OP here you used the word "often."  While it may be happening often to you it is not expected behaviour and hence a bug.  Alerting people to a possible bug is one thing.  Presenting it as a tip to improve your SL is another.

The only thing amazing about your news is that you may have discovered a previously unreported bug.

 

 eta:clarity

 

 

[irihapeti]

if have a good gfx card then max draw distance for static/still views renders faster after all resources have been downloaded and when cache is not full

it renders faster bc it culls less. It culls less bc: is this previous known resource within the draw distance? If the answer is yes to everything then it dont need to cull the scene

+

but...

the test for draw distance rendering speed is to stand close to the intersection of 4 really busy sims and run in a figure-8 pattern as fast as you can. Changing the direction randomly. Figure-8 and not just plain rotate. Do this with a complex textured/modelled scripted object chasing/following you really closely

you will find that when do this (random figure-8) the camera angles of the scene changes rapidly as do the camera angle/view of what is chasing you 

short draw distance beats long draw distance everytime FPS-wise in this case

is the same for any scene where the camera is moving or when stuff is moving into and out of the scene. like other avatars for example

[Senobia Xenga]

In Firestorm, I do notice a faster rez time with a considerably higher draw distance, yes.

[Qie Niangao]

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irihapeti wrote:

if have a good gfx card then max draw distance for static/still views renders faster after all resources have been downloaded and when cache is not full

it renders faster bc it culls less. It culls less bc: is this previous known resource within the draw distance? If the answer is yes to everything then it dont need to cull the scene [...]

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Hmmm. Even in this static case, this would imply that it's cheaper to draw than to cull, which may be true but it's not intuitive to me.

In fact, for modern Linden viewers (not sure if Firestorm has yet caught up with this part of the Interest List changes), there shouldn't be much to cull with the shorter draw distance unless the viewer previously had a longer draw distance for the same scene, or somehow otherwise contaminated its object data with lots of objects outside the current shorter draw distance. Unless I'm missing something.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

if have a good gfx card then max draw distance for static/still views renders faster after all resources have been downloaded and when cache is not full

it renders faster bc it culls less. It culls less bc: is this previous known resource within the draw distance? If the answer is yes to everything then it dont need to cull the scene [...]

---

Hmmm. Even in this static case, this would imply that it's cheaper to draw than to cull, which may be true but it's not intuitive to me.

In fact, for modern Linden viewers (not sure if Firestorm has yet caught up with this part of the Interest List changes), there shouldn't

be

much to cull with the shorter draw distance unless the viewer previously had a longer draw distance for the same scene, or somehow otherwise contaminated its object data with lots of objects outside the current shorter draw distance. Unless I'm missing something.

---

Even if there was an initial cull of now-out-of-interest-objects upon decrease in DD, that would be a one-time affair, no? Since culling is done on a frame by frame basis, you'd expect a massive cull to delay the rendering of one frame. After that, for a static view, the new display list would require culling only those things that have moved out of view during the frame (and adding to the list anything that moved in).

It's certainly possible that rendering a small object could take less time than culling it. But once culled, that penalty is gone.

[Perrie Juran]

 

 

Happy to see some technical expertise in the thread.

When you lower your draw distance you not only remove the object but the shadow they are casting also.

Maybe there are some people experiencing the inverse of expected behaviour.  I guess if they are getting it all the more power to them.  It certainly goes against known conventions.

Oh and Maddy, why are you impersonating a Martian?

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Oh and Maddy, why are you impersonating a Martian?

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Well, I could ask why you are trying to kill my bowling pin.

But I'm not one to turn down free (and cute!) help.