hazeonelove Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I recently opened a public all-ages beach on a rented 1/4 sim. I looked hard, being told that I need a "commercial" spot to do this on. So, I did. But I'm noticing a LOT of beaches and places are actually homesteads. I don't know exact sizes, but they look to be full sim size, maybe a few meters less. But when I looked in the Parcel Infornation, they are still the same prims as me, 3,750. So, what's the difference? If a beach, that IS public, is a homestead... Then I'm not sure why I was told mine had to be on commercial land. And the homestead also costs the same price, if not a hundred+ less, as mine does. I'm just asking because having that "secluded" island like that, would be nicer. I've made the most out of my little 1/4 sim. But, there ARE neighbors. Even tho there is security and they can't see in really (chat and visualization of avies are blocked), it would still be a nicer view AND more room for me to play with. I'm not really into making clothes or building complex things, I respect those that do. But I do thoroughly enjoy landscaping and arranging land. I admit, 98% of my buildings are premaid and fully furnished mesh buildings. But as I said, I enjoy putting everything together and arranged. Almost like putting Legos together. And with the size of a homestead, which as I said seems at least 3x bigger than my 1/4 sim, I could go crazy with landscaping and such. So, any info would help. I'm always looking to upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 You are confussing a bunch of different things here. Homesteads are like full sims, but with less prims and less costs each month. They are basically designed for people who want their own place, but have no need for a normal sim. Thats often the case when people want to have a really luxuary home. The reason why people told you to rent "commercial land" is, because they assumed you want to rent from some private estate. Private estates state in their land covernance for what the land you rent can be used. This is to make sure nobody opens a laggy club in the middle of a residental neighbourhood. They usualy have extra sims, dedicated to businesses, which is then often called "commerical land". If you rent land from LL directly you can of course do whatever you want. Homesteads can be rented either from private estates or from LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Howdy, Haze! Yes, Homestead sims are the same size in square meters as a regular full prim sim. They can only hold one quarter of the prims though. A full sim holds 15,000 prims. Homesteads, 3,750. So 1/4. I don't see any reason you would have HAD to have a commercial parcel to have a public beach. Commercial parcels (sims) are made for stores and shopping. If you rented a homestead sim, you could have ALL that so long as the sim owner allows it and since you would be the only tenant on the sim, I don't see why they would object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 A bit more info on the three Region types. Note: If you are renting from an Estate the prices you see are what the Estate pays for the region. http://secondlife.com/land/privatepricing.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I knew that the homestead is the same prim allowance as the 1/4 sim I rent. I had NO clue that a homestead can be used as a public place. I do also understand that a homestead has a 20 avi limit. But that's fine to me. I think more than 20 would be laggy for some people anyway. And I see what you mean by, since I would essentially "own" and be the only tenant on the homestead, that holding a public place would not be an issue, considering there are no neighbors. I'll be looking into a homestead later on tonight now lol. I just think the space and the freedom to alter the ENTIRE homestead/sim would be convenient. I focus on grave detail. So little things like setting the windlight and bring able to separate the sim into separate parcels myself, really give me more imagination. Such as, terraforming and entire section to be it's own private island type thing. An idea I had was to put an aquarium underneath, and dig out the top layer, almost making like a glass dance floor with aquatic life to look out underneath you. Or even, adding a zoo area. I have lots of different ideas, I just need the room. So thank you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 hazeonelove wrote: I had NO clue that a homestead can be used as a public place. Any land in Second Life can be public, or private, depending entirely on the owner/renter of whether they turn on security that prevents or restricts entry to only certain avatars, or if they leave all security off then anyone will be able to enter. The only real division is residential/business, and only pertains to private estates and how the owners of those estates want to govern their own land. You really should have spent more time learning about land usage in SL before you started spending money. No offense, but you have a dismal understanding of land use in SL at the present time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 That's why I ask questions. Better late than never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 hazeonelove wrote: Better late than never. Lol, that is true. I just hate to see you drop the money it takes to have land only to find out what you got is not what you need. Just starting out is not so bad, but once you have a "clientele" and have to make a move, it can be difficult to get them up to speed, get them coming to the new place, and of course having to tear down and recreate everything is awfully time consuming. There are 2 types of land in Second Life: (1) Mainland: This land is contained in the large continents that you see when you open your map. This land is bought from either LL or from residents. This land is considered "owned" and you are free to do whatever does not violate the TOS, Community Standards or Maturity ratings. To own this land you must be a premium member. You pay monthly tier based on the size of the land directly to LL with USD. They do not accept Lindens in payment. You can sell your Lindens on the Lindex, which gives your account a USD balance, and pay with that, or with your payment option you have set up. Failure to pay either your tier or your premium membership can result in account suspension until arrears are paid. (2) Private islands: This land is full sims purchased from either LL or private island owners who are selling. Bought from LL there is a purchase price and a set-up fee. Bought from a private owner, there will be a transfer fee from LL besides the purchase price to the seller. A homestead is the same type of land. You must be a private sim owner of at least 1 sim before you can purchase a homestead. A homestead is the same size as, but has lower prims, lower avatar admittance, and lower performance than a full sim. You can rent land from a private sim owner. The price of purchase and tier is entirely up to the owner. You pay your monthly tier to the owner of the land, not to LL. The owner can set the rules (covenant) in manner which they see fit, and if you become in violation of those rules you can lose your land and there will be no recourse. Be aware, not all land owners are the same. Some are very responsible, dependable, and have been around for a long time. You really need to research who you are going to rent from if you decide to go this route. There are those few who are out to scam people out of their money, or if you are renting from a private land owner, they fail to meet their financial obligations to LL, and their sim is "repossessed" by LL, you are out of luck. They were LL's customer, not you. I believe that covers the most basics. If anyone sees an omission or an error, please point it out. As far as your particular use, if you are just creating a beach that anyone can come and hang out on, and are not going to selling creations, holding specific events, etc., I see no reason why you would require commercial land. However, again, this would be up to the owner of the private land you are renting from. Research, find a reputable owner, tell them what you want, what you want to do there, and let them show you what they will allow and what they have to offer. Many of them will have land agents who are more than willing to work with you and get you into a piece of land that meets with your requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Very helpful post, thank you. And that was my process before. Searching, talking to land managers, etc. And those are the persons that said I need commercial land. But contrary to that, no, I'm not selling anything. I might throw a few advertisement billboards up with friends businesses. But there will be no items for sale. That was a big part of why I began this. I was personally tired of seeing full sims (or homesteads) with virtually nothing on them. Most beaches I've come across have maybe 1,000 prims in essential hangout things. Chairs, dancing, places to sit. But the rest is empty land with shops. I understand how that can be beneficial. But it's just something I'm not wanting to do. There's enough of those. People just need a place to relax and not be pressured to do... Anything. I WAS thinking of holding contests, maybe some themed events. But nothing being sold. It would merely be a "lottery" for the visitors. No cost to vote, no entry fee. And ya, I have spent quite a bit of money already and should have understood the land owning business better first. But, I can't say I'm upset. I worked the hell out of my little 1/4 sim. So moving to a full will be great. And I have a good path and idea to go on now. Question: If I do decide to get a homestead, is there a difference in abilities between buying the land outright or renting it? I mean, I'm assuming that these beaches I see are renting the land or "buying" from a private owner. But, they have full rights, can rename the region, etc. So would I be able to be "owner" even if I'm paying the private owner? Or do I HAVE to buy the land from LL in order to "own" the region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I don't think my scenario was clear enough for my Ill-phrased question lol. On my land rental, I have owner abilities. I can change the name of the parcel, deed it, sell it, rent it, yada yada yada. But under the region information, it had the Estate Owners name, I can not change the weather or region settings, blah blah. I understand that part, due to the fact that I'm renting a PIECE of a sim. So they don't want the individual residents to mess with the entire region's settings. But if I get a homestead in the same fashion, from the same owner (maybe), will I then be the owner of that homestead/region? Since I am the only tenant? And if so, would I make my own covenant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Homesteads are private land, and as I noted, you must own at least 1 full sim before being able to own a homestead. You would be renting a homestead from the private owner otherwise. If they say you need commercial for what you want to do, then that is what you would have to rent. Remember, they make the rules on private land. While you can change the parcel name in About Land, the sim name will not change. The private owners can give you various rights to the land at their whim, or restrict rights. It is their ballgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 hazeonelove wrote: But if I get a homestead in the same fashion, from the same owner (maybe), will I then be the owner of that homestead/region? Since I am the only tenant? And if so, would I make my own covenant? You will always just be a renter in all actuality. It is just that the owner is able to assign certain rights to you. You cannot change the convenant. The covenant is the contract between you and the private owner as to your actions while you are the tenant. You can decide who you will and will not allow on your land, and have certain abilities to restrict by group or individual, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 I see. So explain the ownership requirements a little more please. You say I must own a full sim before I'm eligible to buy a homestead. Which would then make me the owner. So... That means I have to fully pay for a full sim first? Seems like a lot to be elible for a homestead. But I think I understand what you've said so far. Renting a homestead would almost be equivalent to exactly what I'm doing now. Just, bigger. But still have an owner over my head, dictating my rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 hazeonelove wrote: I see. So explain the ownership requirements a little more please. You say I must own a full sim before I'm eligible to buy a homestead. Which would then make me the owner. So... That means I have to fully pay for a full sim first? Yes, you must be an owner of a full private sim before you can own a homestead. Edited to add, meaning your tier for the full sim being paid to LL, and then the tier for the subsequent homestead being paid to LL. Renting a homestead would almost be equivalent to exactly what I'm doing now. Just, bigger. But still have an owner over my head, dictating my rights. Correct. BTW, I mentioned about being a Premium member before owning mainland on the continents, but I failed to mention that you do not have to be Premium to own a private island, or to rent from someone who does own a private island. Just wanted to add that oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hmm... That seems like a lot. I didn't know a lot of this. I also didn't expect the owners of some beaches which are on homesteads, to also own full sims. I thought they just rented the homestead to hold their beach and that's it. But when I go to their parcel and region details, they ARE listed as the owners (or their group) and also have their own covenant. It's just hard to believe that they also own a full sim, even if it is true. And if the requirements are as you say, then they must. My next question, as human as it is... How can they afford that?!?!?!? Lol. I saw the prices of full sims. I thought about doing it. But if I remember correctly, it's something like $300+ USD per month. And if they're not selling their own items in stores or something... I can't see how someone could afford that. Plus a homestead on top of it. Unless they're well-off. Which then I could understand. But if you own a full sim... Why would you need or want a homestead on top of that? Besides wanting a luxurious house and private land for your family. I'm impressed by these people now lol. But I'm wondering how it's accomplished, so maybe I can get there one day. But as I said, I've seen full sim prices... Well wait... I'm paying damn near $8,000 a week for my 1/4 sim. So would a full sim be around $20,000 a week? I thought I saw a price estimated around $300+ USD. But I've looked at a lot of places, so I could very well be mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Another silly question probably. But do the owners have to follow their own covenant? Or does it even matter since it's THEIR covenant, and it's mainly meant for the renters and or visitors? Because I've read a covenant made by one of the beaches, and a very bold and clear rule in their covenant is being broken, by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Yes, they are the owners of the land and the covenant was written by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 hazeonelove wrote: Hmm... That seems like a lot. I didn't know a lot of this. I also didn't expect the owners of some beaches which are on homesteads, to also own full sims. I thought they just rented the homestead to hold their beach and that's it. But when I go to their parcel and region details, they ARE listed as the owners (or their group) and also have their own covenant. "Owner" is a very subjective term in SL as pertains to land. When you rent you are shown as owner on the General tab. Go to the same land, then click on the Covenant tab. Then look at Estate and Owner. This is who really owns the land and pays tier to LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 hazeonelove wrote: Another silly question probably. But do the owners have to follow their own covenant? Or does it even matter since it's THEIR covenant, and it's mainly meant for the renters and or visitors? Because I've read a covenant made by one of the beaches, and a very bold and clear rule in their covenant is being broken, by them. Besides being subject to LL's TOS, Community Standards and Maturity Ratings, the owner of a private island is pretty much god of their domain. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelley Wonder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 My partner and I have "owned"....rented a Homestead for about 2 years now. We set the covenent, change windlight settings...name the sim....terraform etc. If you would like more info, just send me an im inworld and I would be happy to answer your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 I definitely will do so, thank you Kelley. And thank you for clearing that up for me. But now I'm a little confused lol. I have been to rental places, including my current one I rent from, and they offer homesteads. No requirements or premium account needed. So are the previous requirements that were stated by Utu true? That I have to own a full sim first? I'm not saying it's not true. I'm just obviously misunderstanding something, somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Sounds grand lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 You must own a full sim before acquiring a homestead sim only if you are dealing directly with LL. You can rent a homestead from a third party land baron(ess) without being either a premium member or owning any other land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelley Wonder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 We rent from a land baron(ess). I won't name them here, as that may be seen as advertising. They have fantastic customer service and we have been very satisfied. They are a big company, so I don't fear that they would close up shop tomorrow and leave us stranded. Our Homestead is not commercial, we have it open to the public, so they may wander about and enjoy a peaceful time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazeonelove Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 I understand the point of not mentioning your renter. I haven't mentioned the name of mine for the same reason. I will definitely talk to you inworld tho. I will be in world in a couple of hours, if you'll be on as well. But I'll send you an IM regardless. Thank you all got the clarifications and info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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